3 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

I was right near the bench for that game and Gawn had more pain killers than touches. 
I just don’t know why we kept pushing so many of our stars throughout the season when they were clearly not ok. 

Maybe it’s because Max currently has zero ruck support - Maybe it’s the reason we have interest in recruiting Grundy 

IMO we have been relying far too heavily on Max thinking that he is invincible and not adequately planning for a plan B - It’s going to be a much bigger problem Now that Fluke has moved on 

On 9/22/2022 at 4:15 PM, Ollie fan said:

Lesson: “manage” players during the season.

Correct, the smart ones here called this out during the season.

Even Blind Freddy could have seen it was going to be an issue.

I’d even go as far to say it contributed to our fade-outs and players getting complacent knowing their spot was safe no matter their form.

5 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Maybe it’s because Max currently has zero ruck support - Maybe it’s the reason we have interest in recruiting Grundy 

IMO we have been relying far too heavily on Max thinking that he is invincible and not adequately planning for a plan B - It’s going to be a much bigger problem Now that Fluke has moved on 

We had Jackson who should have been dropped for Weideman many weeks ago.

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Correct, the smart ones here called this out during the season.

Had we beat Sydney - and plenty of things didn’t go our way that night - we could’ve rested guys up to go again the prelim.

I’m only upset about the management of players in the first half of the season. Particularly the Gawn and Lever Eagles trip and North game and bringing Max back really quickly.

Going for it in the last 2 months of the season doesn’t bother me.

If they can have a crack and get through the game you take your chances with your best players.

I had breakfast at Rocksalt a wonderful establishment in Brighton run by the Salem family. His dad was in this morning and I commented to him that the team were pretty banged up and 11 players had scans pre-Brisbane game. He smiled and said yes and his son was first in the queue and had so many X-rays and scans. No better source than Dad.

The issue is you simply cannot make 11 changes to a team in the finals some of whom would be on debut. I doubt Casey could have fielded a team if they did this. It was a risk and it didn't come off. Also don't underestimate the willingness of Max, Trac and Clarrie etc to play through the pain barrier and still perform at a high level.

Last year there were no injuries, this year they all came at the wrong time. Look at Sydney today who gambled on 2 injured players and that backfired big time. The cats carefully managed their kist and took no chances with their team for the GF

34 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Had we beat Sydney - and plenty of things didn’t go our way that night - we could’ve rested guys up to go again the prelim.

I’m only upset about the management of players in the first half of the season. Particularly the Gawn and Lever Eagles trip and North game and bringing Max back really quickly.

Going for it in the last 2 months of the season doesn’t bother me.

If they can have a crack and get through the game you take your chances with your best players.

Agree with this.

All this talk about managing players like Geelong did.

They had easier opponents and an extra 1-2 wins than us and so were able to rest players.

We hadn't locked up top 4 and couldn't afford to rest players, as our games were all against finalists or sides in contention for finals.

The WC-North fortnight was probably the one time this year we had the chance to give a sore player or two a break, but I don't see what we were supposed to do in the last 8 weeks when our ladder position was on the line.

3 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

We hadn't locked up top 4 and couldn't afford to rest players, as our games were all against finalists or sides in contention for finals.

Hence Goodwins unusual overt frustration in the post game presser against The Bulldogs...

Edited September 24, 20222 yr by Engorged Onion

1 hour ago, Older demon said:

I had breakfast at Rocksalt a wonderful establishment in Brighton run by the Salem family. His dad was in this morning and I commented to him that the team were pretty banged up and 11 players had scans pre-Brisbane game. He smiled and said yes and his son was first in the queue and had so many X-rays and scans. No better source than Dad.

The issue is you simply cannot make 11 changes to a team in the finals some of whom would be on debut. I doubt Casey could have fielded a team if they did this. It was a risk and it didn't come off. Also don't underestimate the willingness of Max, Trac and Clarrie etc to play through the pain barrier and still perform at a high level.

Last year there were no injuries, this year they all came at the wrong time. Look at Sydney today who gambled on 2 injured players and that backfired big time. The cats carefully managed their kist and took no chances with their team for the GF

I don’t disagree but we risked Salem, Lever, Gawn, Brown and Jackson (at least) in games when they could have had longer lay offs during the middle of the year that may (emphasis on may) have meant a better September. Gawn had syndesmosis and was back in 2 weeks for example. We were losing anyway…

These are but lessons for our future. 

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Agree with this.

All this talk about managing players like Geelong did.

They had easier opponents and an extra 1-2 wins than us and so were able to rest players.

We hadn't locked up top 4 and couldn't afford to rest players, as our games were all against finalists or sides in contention for finals.

The WC-North fortnight was probably the one time this year we had the chance to give a sore player or two a break, but I don't see what we were supposed to do in the last 8 weeks when our ladder position was on the line.

There is no way Geelong rest players the way they did if they had a draw like ours.

How a team that finshed top 4 and in a prelim the year previous recieve such the softest of draws WC and Norf 2x and games at home in the back half of the year is absolutely criminal.

As good as they were all year they have been gifted this years Premiership, they just needed to manage and use squad depth at the right intervals in which they did.

Edited September 24, 20222 yr by YesitwasaWin4theAges

19 hours ago, willmoy said:

Having followed Garden City back in the sixties I  don't wish any ill will to come to any Papley but I can understand the sentiment. That said he might end up knocking himself out.

I still think we need to use many more players revolving through the team, we set the 42 to do that, didn't we? Why didn't it happen?

I do not think we were proactive enough with the list at the end of last year, and probably rightly so at the time. It all looked set. A few players in our bottom six just didn’t step up this year, and we didn’t quite have the talent below them to push us to the same level. The decision now is do we need to target players and tinker the game plan. We smashed Geelong last year and they’ve bounced back emphatically through smart list management and adjustments to the way they play. It can be a quick turnaround 

8 hours ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

There is no way Geelong rest players the way they did if they had a draw like ours.

How a team that finshed top 4 and in a prelim the year previous recieve such the softest of draws WC and Norf 2x and games at home in the back half of the year is absolutely criminal.

As good as they were all year they have been gifted this years Premiership, they just needed to manage and use squad depth at the right intervals in which they did.

Rubbish. WCE finished 9th in 2021, and no-one could have predicted their Covid/injury issues. We had 2 games against the 2021 2nd bottom team Collingwood, and we lost both. We only played the Grand Finalists once, and lost both.

We were 8-0 with games against NM and WCE coming up. We didn't take the opportunity to manage players. And we didn't take the opportunity to test our squad depth, and utilise Casey players in form.

We tried to replicate 2021 in all aspects, and failed. The Cats knew they had to change personnel and game style, and succeeded. To say they were gifted the Premiership is just sour grapes.

2 hours ago, mo64 said:

Rubbish. WCE finished 9th in 2021, and no-one could have predicted their Covid/injury issues. We had 2 games against the 2021 2nd bottom team Collingwood, and we lost both. We only played the Grand Finalists once, and lost both.

We were 8-0 with games against NM and WCE coming up. We didn't take the opportunity to manage players. And we didn't take the opportunity to test our squad depth, and utilise Casey players in form.

We tried to replicate 2021 in all aspects, and failed. The Cats knew they had to change personnel and game style, and succeeded. To say they were gifted the Premiership is just sour grapes.

You failed to highlight the rest of what i said i gave them credit for there management of their players.

I stand by what i said mo64, We weren't good enough i have acknowledged this fact on numerous occasions, Geelong have won it this year too good well done, but you are a fool if you think they haven't had piggy backs along the way to this years Premiership.

You mentioned we could have rested/rotated players in R9 and R10 yes but Geelong got given a gift from the heavens deeper in the season from the AFL in R17.

I also could have mentioned Geelong playing a Norf side that was going through the motions at feral land, a stroll in the park game before their next game against us off a 4 day break again at Feral land.

Whilst we had to travel to Adelaide and back from a tough physical encounter against the Crows.

Do you actually think that is fair mo64?Which fair game administrators would come up with that brain buster.

I could sit here and pick the eyes out of there draw but do yourself a favour just go and look at there last 13 games compared to ours, then you understand what im going on about.

 

Edited September 25, 20222 yr by YesitwasaWin4theAges

I like the three previous posts.It was a combination of all of these and they are not that different.

Don't think they won't be analysed to the hilt, with their ten mtr passing that is 15mtr at the start. Their crucial holding before the contest.

And Sydney why they put a left footer on the wrong side of the ground.

Smith likes taking hand balls but never gives them.

18 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

We had Jackson who should have been dropped for Weideman many weeks ago.

I should have been dropped for Weideman but no one else on the the list should have

5 hours ago, mo64 said:

Rubbish. WCE finished 9th in 2021, and no-one could have predicted their Covid/injury issues. We had 2 games against the 2021 2nd bottom team Collingwood, and we lost both. We only played the Grand Finalists once, and lost both.

We were 8-0 with games against NM and WCE coming up. We didn't take the opportunity to manage players. And we didn't take the opportunity to test our squad depth, and utilise Casey players in form.

We tried to replicate 2021 in all aspects, and failed. The Cats knew they had to change personnel and game style, and succeeded. To say they were gifted the Premiership is just sour grapes.

One of the things that has been overlooked by the experts is that Shannon Byrne returned to the Cats after 8 years with us, he knew our game plan intimately. He attended all Training sessions and was the person who passed all the messages and changes to the team during play. If you watch “Sound The Alarm” Goody spoke with him more than anyone else during the Granny. He had a lot of knowledge and in- house intelligence on us.!!!!

29 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

One of the things that has been overlooked by the experts is that Shannon Byrne returned to the Cats after 8 years with us, he knew our game plan intimately. He attended all Training sessions and was the person who passed all the messages and changes to the team during play. If you watch “Sound The Alarm” Goody spoke with him more than anyone else during the Granny. He had a lot of knowledge and in- house intelligence on us.!!!!

All the more reason why we need to change.

I mentioned elsewhere 'they have become us' terms of game style and ball movement. 

Byrnes also had intel on our fitness and loading programs under the master Darren Burgess.  Scott mentioned during the bye they were doing 'loading' differently this year and I couldn't help thinking that was in part due to Byrne's input.

The main thing that stood out was the tackles were down and metres gained. Probably injury related but that is football. Some years you will have a good run, some years a bad. Also the trac and Oliver were down on goals per game.

21 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Correct, the smart ones here called this out during the season.

Even Blind Freddy could have seen it was going to be an issue.

I’d even go as far to say it contributed to our fade-outs and players getting complacent knowing their spot was safe no matter their form.

And yet we were howled down by usual suspects for suggesting this..

Apparently we should never ever question coaching selection or fitness staff ever again.

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Scott mentioned during the bye they were doing 'loading' differently this year

They had a 2 week block of increased training loads around the bye, like a lot of clubs, and Scott mentioned that they'd gone a bit harder across this 2 week period. (Helped no doubt by the easy draw they had immediately after it.)

Burgess' mantra was train hard all year round, or just train hard, period. Perhaps Shannon Byrnes had a part in bringing this to Geelong's attention, but it wasn't exactly a secret.

 

1 hour ago, DeeZone said:

He had a lot of knowledge and in- house intelligence on us.!!!!

Perhaps. All clubs employ opposition analysts, I don't know that there are that many unknowns apart from specific match-day preparation - who's playing on who, who's carrying an injury, rotation strategies etc.

The contrast between Geelong and us this year is pretty stark.

Scott was clearly on the same page as his head of fitness and medical staff (very experienced head doctor) when they pulled Max Holmes before the gf, but more impressive and a bigger contrast to us was sending Danger for a long rehab after round 10 (they were 6-4).  On 25 May the comments were

“Geelong coach Chris Scott said the decision may cost Geelong in the short term, but he’d reached the point where he wanted Dangerfield at his best, not merely struggling through games due to injury.

"When I reflect over the last couple of years, we just haven't had him firing towards the end of the season," Scott said.

If only Goody had applied that to the 9 players on our list that struggled through games due to injury from as early as round 1.

22 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Had we beat Sydney - and plenty of things didn’t go our way that night - we could’ve rested guys up to go again the prelim.

I’m only upset about the management of players in the first half of the season. Particularly the Gawn and Lever Eagles trip and North game and bringing Max back really quickly.

Going for it in the last 2 months of the season doesn’t bother me.

If they can have a crack and get through the game you take your chances with your best players.

Agree about the West Coast game.

I’m staggered we didn’t rest half a dozen players that day. West Coast had about 11 of their best 22 out and our club should’ve easily backed its depth to beat a depleted bottom 2 side at their lowest ebb in club history.

I recall Hawthorn in 2013 having lowly GWS, Melbourne and GC three weeks in a row (about rounds 9-11) and they went public in their intention of resting players.

Another of a long list of questionable selections and injury management.

Edited September 25, 20222 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

7 hours ago, DeeZone said:

One of the things that has been overlooked by the experts is that Shannon Byrne returned to the Cats after 8 years with us, he knew our game plan intimately. He attended all Training sessions and was the person who passed all the messages and changes to the team during play. If you watch “Sound The Alarm” Goody spoke with him more than anyone else during the Granny. He had a lot of knowledge and in- house intelligence on us.!!!!

He [censored] us royally that little pip squeak.

10 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

He [censored] us royally that little pip squeak.

Is there any reality at all in that comment?

ps...this is a State based suburban football sporting competition.

It's not Russia vs Ukraine....there are no traitors,none,nada,zilch .