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Injured Players


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3 hours ago, mo64 said:

We all jumped on the Burgo mantra of playing through injury. The reality is we had a shortened pre-season, and players were training a couple of weeks after the flag. We shouldn't have tried to replicate 2021 in terms of player management.

We had a VFL team in extraordinary form, and yet we didn't avail ourselves of these players. Match committee preferred to play underdone players than fit and firing players like Chandler, Dunstan and JVR.

Hopefully this is one of the learnings that Goody is talking about.

Mate the VFL is so far inferior to the AFL.  If you changed the 11 injured players for VFL players we would have been beaten by 10 goals.  

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7 minutes ago, Monbon said:

Why blame 'Goody' for this? Recall, if you may, that 2021 was a year when, whoever the gods of football are, granted us a virtual free pass. Some on this site believe god was called Burgo. I'd rather believe the god was called Serendipity, the same god who spins the wheels of fate and the result has absolutely zero to with Burgo, Goody, or the fact that Melbourne played with 11 injured players. From what I've read, those 11 players should, according to some, been replaced by 11 fit and able Casey players. Yeah, sure. We lose and Goody gets the buckets of poo poured over him for playing Turner, Van R, Brown, Howes, Baker, Tomlinson, Chandler, Bedford, Moniz-W, Weideman, Laurie, Dunstan and Woewoddin.

I rest my case.

No one said 11 players should have been dropped at once and replaced.

The clear implication is we pushed the boundaries with inured players, perhaps off the luck we had in 2021, but the balance was too far to  the other side this year and it cost us.

Given the form of Casey, losing 1 game for the entire season, there was ample opportunity to blood some young players who had earned a shot while at the same time making sure those injured players were brought back to better condition. We could have done this bit by bit and planned out the year differently, especially given not all injured or sore players were at their 'worst' at the same time.

It's not just on Goody, but also the fitness staff and the entire selection committee. I would say mostly the selection committee given what we know about Goodwin's firmness with the fitness team.

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13 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

No one said 11 players should have been dropped at once and replaced.

The clear implication is we pushed the boundaries with inured players, perhaps off the luck we had in 2021, but the balance was too far to  the other side this year and it cost us.

Given the form of Casey, losing 1 game for the entire season, there was ample opportunity to blood some young players who had earned a shot while at the same time making sure those injured players were brought back to better condition. We could have done this bit by bit and planned out the year differently, especially given not all injured or sore players were at their 'worst' at the same time.

It's not just on Goody, but also the fitness staff and the entire selection committee. I would say mostly the selection committee given what we know about Goodwin's firmness with the fitness team.

Agree, however, please confirm when you would have replaced who with whom, if you get my drift. We won the first 10 games, then were  placed in the Draw from Hell, and as I recall, every time there was the possibility of 'blooding', it would have been unfair to drop the player the newbie would have replaced. Go through it week by week, compare the relative performances at Casey. For example, Dunstan had 5 chances, Bedford a few, Chandler only limited. Van R was still groping around, showing plenty but not quite enough to be thrown to the wolves - recall all of the last 12 games were against Top 8 contenders, and the days of Queens Birthday Watts sacrifice were over...

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23 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Mate the VFL is so far inferior to the AFL.  If you changed the 11 injured players for VFL players we would have been beaten by 10 goals.  

Exactly. Watching VFL is like watching suburban footy. Some good passages of play, but a lot of scrappy rubbish. Maybe the coaching group deliberately held back some players in the VFL for the bigger picture of their AFL careers. Cut Goody and co some slack guys and gals, they delivered us a flag last year, clearly this year they had a lot more to deal with

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Defenders

Lever (Ankle) Salem (Knee)

Mids

Petracca (leg), Brayshaw (knee), Gawn (foot), Jackson (knee)

Fwds

Brown (knee), Pickett (knee), Fritsch (back?)

The above ones looked visually hampered. Two others - possibly Viney (very quiet finals for him)?

Management of players perhaps questionable at times but the back half draw was brutal and top 4 was on the line given Cats/Pies/Swans werent dropping games. 

Get werridee to post a 22/3 without the above players and we werent making a prelim whichever way you spin it. 

Moving on i just hope this pre season isnt a 2018/19 cluster**** of surgeries 

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21 minutes ago, Monbon said:

Agree, however, please confirm when you would have replaced who with whom, if you get my drift. We won the first 10 games, then were  placed in the Draw from Hell, and as I recall, every time there was the possibility of 'blooding', it would have been unfair to drop the player the newbie would have replaced. Go through it week by week, compare the relative performances at Casey. For example, Dunstan had 5 chances, Bedford a few, Chandler only limited. Van R was still groping around, showing plenty but not quite enough to be thrown to the wolves - recall all of the last 12 games were against Top 8 contenders, and the days of Queens Birthday Watts sacrifice were over...

Lol turn it up mate. Without having in-depth medical records, KPIs and GPS data no one can go through "week by week" and make those calls accurately. Ridiculous comment and you know it.

If you balanced it out and brought it through gradually you just need the  players coming in to play a role, they don't have to play out of the box. That's what depth is. The Watts comparison is absurd and we are past those days.

'Dropping' a player is not the same as managing a player. How do you think Chris Scott explained 'dropping' Joel Selwood?

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8 minutes ago, HarpenDee said:

Defenders

Lever (Ankle) Salem (Knee)

Mids

Petracca (leg), Brayshaw (knee), Gawn (foot), Jackson (knee)

Fwds

Brown (knee), Pickett (knee), Fritsch (back?)

The above ones looked visually hampered. Two others - possibly Viney (very quiet finals for him)?

Management of players perhaps questionable at times but the back half draw was brutal and top 4 was on the line given Cats/Pies/Swans werent dropping games. 

Get werridee to post a 22/3 without the above players and we werent making a prelim whichever way you spin it. 

Moving on i just hope this pre season isnt a 2018/19 cluster**** of surgeries 

Spargo was in hospital with a damaged larynx.

Viney has just had eye surgery.

I supect Clarry may have had a fractured cheekbone from the Swans game and certainly was hampered by a recent broken thumb.

That is 12 players not at their peak fitness.

Despite that only poor kicking cost us a PF, so we are still thereabouts.

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This is just getting more ridiculous by the minute.

It just seems some people are determined to find a scapegoat , even if it is the same bloke(s) they were serenading 12 months ago. In 2021 we had a very good run with injuries to key players. The law of probability came into effect this year.

Some issues:

We played the lower sides in the first part of the year and had the "mandatory" stacked draw after that. So it caught up with us.

Casey is a good level below AFL so saviours rarely just step up.

The development of many of our young players in the long term will benefit from the year of development Casey brings. The Coaches (and we have good ones !!!) will be developing programs to bring the kids along, which will provide long term benefits.

We were beaten by Sydney (twice for the year) and by Geelong after being right in it. (The most disappointing result for the year was losing to Brisbane after belting them earlier.

The two best sides (this year) are in the Grand Final. Our Dynasty (re)starts in March 2023

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The chance was there against North and West Coast to begin the management process and the coaching staff ignored it.

From there it went downhill.

It's a balance and that's what they are hired for..

I think Weideman's bad form spooked them and with McDonald injured it started to fall away.

The two Collingwood losses which we would have pencilled in as wins completely blew away any further chance of managing players

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4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Benny Brown going in for surgery. 

What surgery?  

2 hours ago, Demons11 said:

Mate the VFL is so far inferior to the AFL.  If you changed the 11 injured players for VFL players we would have been beaten by 10 goals.  

Nobody is suggesting that all 11 injured players be dropped together - but perhaps resting some as their inability to perform at 100% became apparent would have allowed a more even balance over the whole year eg Salem wasn't right from round 1 : had he been 'rested' for a few weeks then maybe he would have been as dominant and reliable as he had been the previous year.  Who knows?

Still, we won the big one in 2021 and never forget that. (Not being complacent or self-satisfied: just emphasising that almost everything needs to go right to go back to back and that AFL footy is a brutal business).

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In my OP I think that we should have given our key players more time to recover like Oliver Petracca and Gawn for starters. We have players like Weideman and other on ballers who would have jumped at the chance to take one of those three key players positions. That's why they play so play them.

This is not hard to figure out and the benefits could have meant that the injured could have returned in far better shape.

We are a team of 42 and we should have been enacted like it.

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  The Deeprint      The Road to Redemption 2023

Good rest for the lads( none of this training 2 weeks after the GF business).

Take the necessary time to get over injuries properly, surgery, rehab, reinvigorate the players confidence.

Review all fitness related programs undertaken by Selwyn and Co and see if they are in need of a updating i.e new methods of training players skills for specific roles within the team, high intensity block, low intensity block training schedules.

Recruit where our weaknesses lie i.e (Forward line, Ruckman).

Plans B and C to be implemented and worked on during our pre season.

Promote and encourage VFL 2022 performances (Mark Corrigan, Players).

Bring in fresh coaching personnel who bring fresh ideas and perspective of the game, a fresh look from a different angle.

Tweak and Improve our current gamestyle nothing major required.

Hunger, Belief and Ruthless attitude to return for 2023.

If we follow the Deeprint we are morals for 2023.

- Dream

- Believe

- Achieve

 LETS LIVE THE DREAM

  AGAIN IN 

      2023!

    🇱🇮🏆🍾

 

Edited by YesitwasaWin4theAges
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13 hours ago, Demons11 said:

Mate the VFL is so far inferior to the AFL.  If you changed the 11 injured players for VFL players we would have been beaten by 10 goals.  

You've missed the point. Not all 11 players got injured late in the season. Some like Trac and Brown were playing with injury for more than half a season. Surely a rest here and there wouldn't hurt. Despite having the pre-finals bye, our players looked physically spent during the finals.

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12 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Lol turn it up mate. Without having in-depth medical records, KPIs and GPS data no one can go through "week by week" and make those calls accurately. Ridiculous comment and you know it.

If you balanced it out and brought it through gradually you just need the  players coming in to play a role, they don't have to play out of the box. That's what depth is. The Watts comparison is absurd and we are past those days.

'Dropping' a player is not the same as managing a player. How do you think Chris Scott explained 'dropping' Joel Selwood?

I wasn't talking about 'managing': I was referring to the many calls on this site to drop Spargo, Neale Bullen, Melkasham etc to 'blood' new players.

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9 hours ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

  The Deeprint      The Road to Redemption 2023

Good rest for the lads( none of this training 2 weeks after the GF business).

Take the necessary time to get over injuries properly, surgery, rehab, reinvigorate the players confidence.

Review all fitness related programs undertaken by Selwyn and Co and see if they are in need of a updating i.e new methods of training players skills for specific roles within the team, high intensity block, low intensity block training schedules.

Recruit where our weaknesses lie i.e (Forward line, Ruckman).

Plans B and C to be implemented and worked on during our pre season.

Promote and encourage VFL 2022 performances (Mark Corrigan, Players).

Bring in fresh coaching personnel who bring fresh ideas and perspective of the game, a fresh look from a different angle.

Tweak and Improve our current gamestyle nothing major required.

Hunger, Belief and Ruthless attitude to return for 2023.

If we follow the Deeprint we are morals for 2023.

- Dream

- Believe

- Achieve

 LETS LIVE THE DREAM

  AGAIN IN 

      2023!

    🇱🇮🏆🍾

 

I am in the same mindset wiwa………,,,,, I can’t wait for tomorrow’s game to be here and gone, eager to see who else leaves the club what we receive for LJ and who JT and Lamb pick up in the draft. Then start focusing in on the 2023 season and our climb back to redemption this time next year.❤️💙✅

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If there was 11 injuries I think our finals came down to two, Salem didn’t look himself the entire second half of the season. Especially in finals. He looked ginger, was worse than usual in one on ones and occasionally seemed to avoid contact. His disposal was even off. After our excellent performance with Bowey in rnd 23 Bowey should’ve stayed in for Salem. 
 

Either JVR or Weid should’ve come in for a sore BBB or Melksham should’ve been dropped after choking against Sydney and one of JVR or Weid come in for him as support/second KPF. Or Petty forward with BBB with Tomlinson or Smith in the backline, particularly once we knew Daniher was out. This also would’ve allowed us to have Dunstan as sub and bring him on for Trac in the second half once he got too sore. 

That would’ve been enough to put us in a prelim. 

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31 minutes ago, mo64 said:

You've missed the point. Not all 11 players got injured late in the season. Some like Trac and Brown were playing with injury for more than half a season. Surely a rest here and there wouldn't hurt. Despite having the pre-finals bye, our players looked physically spent during the finals.

Always easier in hindsight.  If we rested players then do we actually win the games we played in and then do we actually make top 4.  It’s always easier to say if we did something different then the result may have been different but it’s so subjective.  Goody has so much faith in the group which is one of the reasons we won the flag and why all our guns have committed long-term.  

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2 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Always easier in hindsight.  If we rested players then do we actually win the games we played in and then do we actually make top 4.  It’s always easier to say if we did something different then the result may have been different but it’s so subjective.  Goody has so much faith in the group which is one of the reasons we won the flag and why all our guns have committed long-term.  

We finished the season 6-8 including scraping over the line against Carlton. We won games early in the year with 5 of our backline missing. We won a game with Gawn and Jackson missing. 

Goody's faith in the group to deliver his game-plan for the full 120 minutes was misguided, and the results showed against better teams. We were 0-5 against the other top 4 teams. 

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18 hours ago, Dee-licious said:

Heard the same yesterday as well. Would not have played if it was home and away. 

So what they weren’t injured in round 23 but got injured before finals?

sounds like a crock

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26 minutes ago, Monbon said:

I wasn't talking about 'managing': I was referring to the many calls on this site to drop Spargo, Neale Bullen, Melkasham etc to 'blood' new players.

That's a completely different conversation that I wasn't commenting on though...

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