26 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Seriously?

We won a flag with that backline. That is a weird take. 

And they played within their limits mostly that year. With the likes of Rivers, May and Pig in the backline, I’d much prefer them to do the pinpoint kicking. Jake and Harry should kick long down the line 90% of the time.

4 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

And they played within their limits mostly that year. With the likes of Rivers, May and Pig in the backline, I’d much prefer them to do the pinpoint kicking. Jake and Harry should kick long down the line 90% of the time.

I'm confused that you feel that way because I've always thought Jake was a reliable kick.

I've just checked that stats Jake Lever has an average of 82% disposal efficiency since joining us which compared to the rest of the AFL is elite. 
His kicking efficiency for that time is all over 80%.
He is currently at 83.6% this year which is a career high. 
 

5 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Whilst I don’t doubt their bravery, a backline with Lever and Petty’s decision making frightens the heck out of me.

Both solid decision makers. A little ungainly but effective. Lever especially is generally cool, calm and collected and going at 84 percent disposal efficiency which is elite. 

Tomo could handle the Petty role in the short term while we trial Petty up forward.  Tomo was in VG early form from what i saw and was unlucky to be dropped.

You can't judge the success or otherwise of this experiment based on one week's result.  Just hope the FD has the balls to hang in there for at least another three weeks (barring a complete flop in the next match or two) and let Petty settle.

It will take at least two to three weeks for Petty to gel with the other forwards and the mids (and visa-versa) and to get his timing / running patterns up to speed.  In all reality he probably needs a full pre-season doing so.

Maybe he did get some serious time in this position pre-season.  One of the track watchers might be able to shine a light on this??  Kev??? 

Gee my call about not getting GrunDEE at the start of this thread is starting to look very poxy indeed!

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by Demon Dynasty

39 minutes ago, FritschyBusiness said:

'm confused that you feel that way because I've always thought Jake was a reliable kick.

I've just checked that stats Jake Lever has an average of 82% disposal efficiency since joining us which compared to the rest of the AFL is elite. 
His kicking efficiency for that time is all over 80%.
He is currently at 83.6% this year which is a career high.

He's always been an accurate kick but they tend to be relatively short loopy kicks to a free player. They are rarely penetrating attacking kicks allowing the receiver to turn and attack. Salem has this ability and Mc Vee is showing glimpses of it. Rivers sits somewhere in between I think but has a lot of upside.

On Petty.. he's a better back than a forward. Much the same as Moore at Collingwood

On 3/31/2023 at 8:50 AM, Jaded No More said:

We didn't win the flag because 3 of our most important players were broken by the time finals came around. Gawn was seconds away from missing with a rib injury, Trac played with a broken leg and Clarry with a broken hand.

Lever was barely holding his ankles together, Fritta was injured in a warm up and Tmac was out with a busted foot.

Oh and Jackson had checked out, Salem was injured, and BBB couldn't walk let  along run.

We finished second on the ladder despite our less than ideal forward line functionality and I still maintain that had we stayed really fit we would have won the flag. 

Perhaps. We also lost to Sydney, Collingwood (x2) and Geelong during the season before those injuries took hold. We had been fading in games all year and didn't cope with the faster ball movement teams. Our defense was solid but our forward line was lacking and couldn't take advantage of our midfield dominance in many games.

IMO and based on recent exposed form our best options for tall forwards are Petty and JVR. 

Tmac apparently played well at Casey so maybe he comes back to join JVR in attack and allow Petty to go back if the opposition warrants that move. While we have May and Lever together the need for Petty in the back six is questionable. Petty is a great addition to our F50 work because he competes in the air and on the ground and provides a strong physical presence. 

I remain doubtful about BBB as a permanent fixture in the team. His inability to take contested marks is a real problem and when the ball is on the ground he is without doubt our weakest link in terms of applying pressure. 

I originally thought the talk of playing Petty forward was not smart - I mean, why weaken our backline to plug a gap up forward? But I’ve got to admit the move forward Sunday turned out to be a very good move, and I hope, now, that we persist with it for a few games at least, if not the rest of the year if it works out. And by working out I mean that Tomo or Disco can slot in seamlessly into our backline, if they are needed. 
Up forward, Petty, by taking one of the best defenders, will take some of the pressure off JVR till he really finds his feet in AFL football. I’m not hopeful that TMac has a lot more to give - I think time and injury are huge hurdles for him. I also believe the fast game we are trying to play does not help BBB, given his leg issues, and this showed on Sunday. It must frustrate him no end that his body can’t do what he knows he used to.  
Petty forward may well be a great move by Goody (or a desperation move given the above), but a move welcomed by many on here, and now I’ve jumped on board - late as usual.  

6 hours ago, Sydee said:

IMO and based on recent exposed form our best options for tall forwards are Petty and JVR. 

Tmac apparently played well at Casey so maybe he comes back to join JVR in attack and allow Petty to go back if the opposition warrants that move. While we have May and Lever together the need for Petty in the back six is questionable. Petty is a great addition to our F50 work because he competes in the air and on the ground and provides a strong physical presence. 

I remain doubtful about BBB as a permanent fixture in the team. His inability to take contested marks is a real problem and when the ball is on the ground he is without doubt our weakest link in terms of applying pressure. 

with all that he was leading the Coleman before he hurt his back on Sunday?????

23 minutes ago, BangBnagBang said:

with all that he was leading the Coleman before he hurt his back on Sunday?????

Fair point - I'm trying to be fair re Brown.

He does offer a tall target and when he gets his chance he normally executes well (accuracy). 

However, when the ball is on the ground, he is extremely limited, he can't stick a tackle and isn't great at chasing. For a big fella he is very easily pushed off the ball by opposition defenders. He is well behind all of Petty, JVR and Tmac in those areas of the game.   

I thought Harry competed well, kept their tall defenders eg Rampe fully occupied and brought the ball to ground to help the smalls. Overall a job well done. If they decide to rest BBB I wonder if Schache is a chance as he is also handy as a second ruck and will have served his time post concussion.

7 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

I thought Harry competed well, kept their tall defenders eg Rampe fully occupied and brought the ball to ground to help the smalls. Overall a job well done. If they decide to rest BBB I wonder if Schache is a chance as he is also handy as a second ruck and will have served his time post concussion.

Possible - he is probably the closest proxy for BBB we have on the list

Seemed to be going ok before being concussed at Casey.

Doesn't bring the physical presence of either JVR, Petty or even TMac IMO.

 

To all the "Petty Forward" disciples just want to point out you were wrong.

He always was a natural defender.

1 minute ago, Cranky Franky said:

To all the "Petty Forward" disciples just want to point out you were wrong.

He always was a natural defender.

Agreed. Was looking lost in attack and comfortable in defence. 

I've always been in the leave Petty back camp, but now that they've done it, I want them to give him a good stretch of games forward. We can make a decision when Max is fit again.

1 minute ago, A F said:

I've always been in the leave Petty back camp, but now that they've done it, I want them to give him a good stretch of games forward. We can make a decision when Max is fit again.

Correct. He still plays like a defender which is totally understandable. It takes time to switch key roles like that. 
I think we can cover Essendon’s talls without him. 

It’s a no thanks for me.

He’s a way better contested mark when playing defence, and Lyon and Brown pointed out in the telecast that May and Lever would greatly appreciate his support in defence.

I think he’s a fill in for Gawn, and will return to defence upon his return.

7 minutes ago, A F said:

I've always been in the leave Petty back camp, but now that they've done it, I want them to give him a good stretch of games forward. We can make a decision when Max is fit again.

Yes. Judgements on one game are dangerous 

starting to sound like the Weid debate.... he only needs that breakthrough game....

why...

Assuming BBB is fit next week do you drop Petty as the worst performing tall forward

13 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

starting to sound like the Weid debate.... he only needs that breakthrough game....

why...

Assuming BBB is fit next week do you drop Petty as the worst performing tall forward

Like Hibbo down back, he's providing that solid man on man contest, with a bit of pace and desperation 

Petty surely holds his spot as swingman

My view is BBB is marginal to get a spot, and the if he does come back in, more likely that JVR makes way  -  not that I'm advocating in any way for that

I'd let BBB have another week off

Looked like he didn’t know where to go, doesn’t find space and just seems to defend his man.

As soon as Brown is fit he needs to go back,  which also releases lever to play the 3rd tall and be more attacking.

I don’t think Gawn/Grundy, Brown and McDonald is a viable forward line against the best sides. There’s just not enough athleticism to force contests and to defend at ground level.

I’m not positive JVR is quite ready yet. Might be tho.

I don’t think we’ll just have the 2 talls down back when it matters. Lever was threatening to let Allen get hold of him at times. 

I doubt Hibbo’s going to get through the season.

I think the 3 tall defenders don’t provide optimal run and carry and kicking skills. It’s nice having Hibbo to take it on.

What does that all mean? I’ve got no idea at all where to best use Petty.

If anything starting him forward, giving him so time in the ruck and then having him play back once a sub has been made makes sense.

Petty today was imo the best back up ruck man … I would as others have said persist with him forward / ruck  for another couple of weeks (always dependent on opposition match ups of course) though Lever could have benefited with him being alongside at Allen seemed to have the better of Jake. 

50 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

To all the "Petty Forward" disciples just want to point out you were wrong.

He always was a natural defender.

Nah not wrong, recency bias, he is a defender, he is learning to be a forward and I’m sorry but let me check, oh that’s right, we are 10 goals ahead of anyone else on the ladder, damn it’s been a total failure. He is not getting in the way of the other forwards, he contests and he provides great forward defensive pressure. Wasn’t his best day but give him a go, has truly earnt it.

Edited April 9, 20232 yr by DEE fence
Earn/t

Maybe today would have been a good day for Turner.