14 hours ago, Hannibal Inc. said:

Aaron Sandilands played until he was 36.  He was still playing good footy at 32, but injuries effected his final years.

Dean Cox played until he was 33.

Shane Mumford played until he was 35.  Last good year 33.

Paddy Ryder played until he was 34 and looked like he could go again.

Todd Goldstein is playing good football at 34.  And is going again.

Ben McEvoy played until he was 33.  Last good year 32.

My point ?

Not many ruckman are AA at 24 like Cox and Gawn.  Most start playing their best footy from 25 onwards.  And plenty can be important contributors well into their 30s.

Grundy plays all of next year as a 29 year old.  For me that doesn't put him near the back end of his career, it puts him smack bang in the middle for a ruckman.  How many rucks reach their peak before the age of 26 ?  More-so 28+.

Our premiership window should be at least the next 4 years.  At the end of this period Grundy will be 32 and should still have some years left.  Subject to injury he should play at least 100 games.

You may not think Grundy will work, or you may wonder how it will work, but if he's injury free his age for our list demographic is not only fine, it's perfect.  The only proviso is his injury status.

So dismiss Grundy as a good trade target all you want - no problem - but stop using his age as an issue. 

From an age perspective, he's in the "window" at the exact time we are.

You are so right in all of this,also the perfect reason to keep Weid who is just getting to the right age for a big bloke .Saw a lot of improvement in him in the vfl this year

Not worth a mid 2nd round pick and $500k per year in my eyes. 
We need a hybrid ruck/forward, not another tap ruckman. 

15 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Next years Draft is a really good crop, i dont reckon we want to be trading out of the first round.. 

Even if we do trade out of next year's first round, we'll just do what we always do and trade back in next year.

15 hours ago, mo64 said:

Getting Grundy rules out getting a developed/developing ruckman from another club in the foreseeable future.

The only developing ruckman we'd have at the club is Weid, and he would most likely seek opportunities elsewhere if he continues to develop. We'll probably rookie another younger ruckman, but with our 5 year commitment to Grundy, they'll want out as well.

Getting Grundy is such a short-sighted move.

No it doesn't. We can do both. A developing ruckman should be cheap.

As for Weid, he signed a two year deal with us last year presumably because there was no interest elsewhere. This year he showed he wasn't really good enough at AFL level, other than a break glass option. Can't see any other teams offering Sam a best 22 position. So we can get Grundy, a developing ruckman and still have Weid as a break glass option.

43 pages and flying - love it !!!

 

2 hours ago, SPC said:

Not worth a mid 2nd round pick and $500k per year in my eyes. 
We need a hybrid ruck/forward, not another tap ruckman. 

Who do you have in mind?

Having two A grade experienced rucks means we don't have to play both every week.  Goodwin will mostly want to do that to build "continuity" but if one gets banged up we can go with the other and Weid and still be very competitive.

We do need an experienced state league break glass in emergency option as well, in case both Gawn and Grundy get injured. Can partner Weid in the VFL.  I don't think we can necessarily rely on a  Weid-TMac combination when we're contending.

This year or next is timely for drafting a ruck replacement.

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by old55

17 hours ago, Hannibal Inc. said:

Anything I say about Grundy is done so under one important proviso, his body gets back to being 100% (or very close to it).

Grundy is twice AA and twice a Copeland Trophy winner.

He's 203cm to Weideman's 195cm.

How you can equate their onfield output as being anything remotely similar is not only beyond me, I find it extraordinary.

Well firstly I didn't. 

Grundy always had a beast mode similar to Mummy where they could hurt and wear down opposition midfielders. Weidemann isn't and never will be like that. But for all the trading and money can Grundy do all that again. Because it was taxing on his body as well.

Further you are selling Sam short. He is developing a style that is pretty good and as part of a ruck duo can work well enough for us.

But most importantly and something you "Grundy is God" believers conveniently neglect to highlight is that Sam is on our books already so you are not comparing Grundy to just Sam Weidemann but Weidemann AND a first round pick. And both for less money.

So Hannibal Inc. you should keep it in perspective.

Our current ruck stocks are Gawn and Weideman, so in the interest of list balance we HAVE to bring in at least one ready-to-go ruckman. If that's Grundy, if he's fit, and if it's not too high a draft pick (2nd round) then by all means go for it. 

24 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

Our current ruck stocks are Gawn and Weideman, so in the interest of list balance we HAVE to bring in at least one ready-to-go ruckman. If that's Grundy, if he's fit, and if it's not too high a draft pick (2nd round) then by all means go for it. 

Yes happy to give up 2nd round pick for Grundy … we need to be seen as holding some bargaining power … and if it’s pushed our current 2nd and 3rd round (currently 32,41) 

Another post from Bigfooty from someone pretending to be in the know about Grundy....

"His management has been shopping him around and feeding the media whatever it takes to twist the narrative towards their client and force the clubs hands to trade him to suit him

They have recently presented the club a offer (club unknown) of 1 x 1st round pick and a future 2nd round pick but the caveat was they wanted the club to tip in $400k salary for Grundy at his new club
Wright immediately said no way and has told them we will not tip in more than $100k and the 1st round pick must be a top 10 pick plus later picks"

 

The difference between what the 2 supporter groups think is a fair price is as wide as the Valles Marineris. 

We want a pay a second rounder and have 300k plus of his contract paid.

They want 2 x picks (including a top 10) with little of his salary paid.

Surely the end result is something between the 2.

Either way, prepare to be disappointed if we do trade for him.

Providing he's fit and ready to go Round 1 next year, I'm quite happy to give up a first rounder if they pay 300k pa of his salary.

We'll be a very dangerous proposition next year with a fit Grundy and Gawn.

34 minutes ago, A F said:

Providing he's fit and ready to go Round 1 next year, I'm quite happy to give up a first rounder if they pay 300k pa of his salary.

We'll be a very dangerous proposition next year with a fit Grundy and Gawn.

I agree, i think whats getting lost in this is the price we will pay. Grundy has been durable, more durable that Max in fact and when up and going is a great weapon. The team will make it work, and its amazing cover for each ruckman as well, should one go down, and its a possibility we have a great ruckman that can carry the match. Max is not getting younger, the help will be a great asset.

35 minutes ago, A F said:

Providing he's fit and ready to go Round 1 next year, I'm quite happy to give up a first rounder if they pay 300k pa of his salary.

We'll be a very dangerous proposition next year with a fit Grundy and Gawn.

2 first rounders for Jackson e.g. 8 & 15, then later pick goes to Pies for Grundy & they cover $300k.

would love to see analysis of the last 20 pick 15s re games played and then you would see how it aligns with Grundy!

Assuming he is fit, we are getting a gun ruckman.

45 minutes ago, A F said:

We'll be a very dangerous proposition next year with a fit Grundy and Gawn.

Our problems are ball movement going inside 50, inside 50 pressure and around the ground pressure.

Grundy is a gun when fit. 

But he's not helping those elements of our game.

37 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Our problems are ball movement going inside 50, inside 50 pressure and around the ground pressure.

Grundy is a gun when fit. 

But he's not helping those elements of our game.

But if we continue with the game plan of kicking it long to the pocket and trying to force a stoppage then having an All-Australian ruckman down there 100% of the time would be an attractive proposition to Goodwin.

I don't particularly like that part of our game plan, but that possibly could be the logic behind it.

I think Grundy could be the difference in winning another flag and easing the load of Maxy. Early 2nd rounder seems fair value.

Salary dump Tomlinson to free up further coin to whoever wants him 

Bring in Grundy (and the entirety of the $) + the Pies 1st round pick in exchange for a future 4th 

 

Apparently if you do the same thing and expect different results you're mad 

As mentioned before / elsewhere we need a goal kicking big forward.  Grundy is not that.  60 goals in 10 years isn’t going to save us.  Same with Max for that matter - 88 goals in 12 years. 
Thinking that parking either in the left forward pocket and bombing it long and high  will save our scoring woes is delusional. 

While Grundy is a top end talent and Gawn has been banged up this year, the contract Grundy has is huge. The number I’m hearing is 1.2 mil a year over 5 years. (Admittedly I’m not privy to the full truth here). Even if the pies pay a portion, an equivalent contract to be put on the table is the kind of giant carrot we could dangle under so many noses just to shake things up. 

I still remember GWS throwing a big offer at Howe in the final minutes of trade period and him leaving to Collingwood not long after.
Now port are trying to shake Kozzy loose. 

I’d love Melbourne to go to Brisbane/player management and float a trade for mccluggage or hipwood, both of which are close to out of contract. Both are iMV worth big contracts and right now we have this space for it. Whilst Brisbane wouldn’t want them to leave it wouldn’t hurt us to put the idea in their heads. 

if we made it happen, could put an insurance ruck like Jake Spencer on the books until we manage to take a surplus ruck from another club (similar to meek this year). Gawn isn’t finishing up any time soon

obviously it would take picks (which Brisbane need this year for Dunkley, Ashcroft and fletcher) but Grundy is going to cost pick(s) too and I see it as an opportunity for a much bigger list advancement. 

On 9/20/2022 at 6:10 AM, picket fence said:

Paul Salmon says Hi, played mainly ruck but turned into a pretty good Key Forward late in his career!

Paul Salmon was a dominant forward with Essendon when he first came on the scene in 84 before he done his knee

11 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Our problems are ball movement going inside 50, inside 50 pressure and around the ground pressure.

Grundy is a gun when fit. 

But he's not helping those elements of our game.

I expect our pressure rating to be top 8 next year, which means we turn it over closer to goal and that has a huge impact on ball movement and how quickly you enter A50.

For all those suggesting we give a first round pick for Grundy, the Suns have put pick 7 on the table for any club that takes Bowes and his last two years of a back ended contract. That’s right you buy pick 7 by taking on Bowes and his contract.

As I posted earlier, we should offer a low pick, or an exchange of picks, as we are taking on a 5 year salary dump.

7 minutes ago, Redleg said:

For all those suggesting we give a first round pick for Grundy, the Suns have put pick 7 on the table for any club that takes Bowes and his last two years of a back ended contract. That’s right you buy pick 7 by taking on Bowes and his contract.

As I posted earlier, we should offer a low pick, or an exchange of picks, as we are taking on a 5 year salary dump.

We'd be taking the final two years right?

I think it's absolutely worth pursuing even if it means trading out a contracted player or two ourselves. 

To be able to get pick 7 plus the Jackson picks could be a game changer for us going into next year and the years beyond. 

Especially if we can on-trade and get a couple of early first rounders for next year's bumper draft. 

I also can't see us giving up a first rounder for Grundy. Unless it's pick 18 and they're paying a significant chunk of his wage. Nothing earlier than that. 

9 minutes ago, Redleg said:

For all those suggesting we give a first round pick for Grundy, the Suns have put pick 7 on the table for any club that takes Bowes and his last two years of a back ended contract. That’s right you buy pick 7 by taking on Bowes and his contract.

As I posted earlier, we should offer a low pick, or an exchange of picks, as we are taking on a 5 year salary dump.

That’s for taking the full whack of Bowes salary.

The first round pick in the Grundy deal is is because of the dollars they will be paying. We would be the club getting better picks if we were taking the full Grundy salary.