7 minutes ago, DubDee said:

If they have McStay on 650k they still be paying almost a mill including Grundy. Madness. Are they still paying Treloars wages?

They also have kids or players past their prime so they should have some flexibility. But yes, I would wager they are banking on GrunDee and the spike in the cap (~$600k I heard).

14 minutes ago, DubDee said:

If they have McStay on 650k they still be paying almost a mill including Grundy. Madness. Are they still paying Treloars wages?

Treloars deal runs until the end of 2025

supposedly 300k per year paid by the Pies

I’m not overly keen on Grundy. We have the best ruck in the league. So we’re relying on them to kick a fair amount of goals between them for this to work. 30 minimum surely. Our forward line was dysfunctional this year so how does that improve by brining in another ruckman? 
If he comes in for a second rounder and with us only paying 600k it makes it easier to take. But we really don’t need him. I’m saying all this I’m 99% sure we’ll get him. 

I really don't rate McStay that highly, has the occasional good game but is just an average, run of the mill forward in my books.

I think Collingwood will came back down to the middle of the ladder in the next season or two. Some of their key players are 30+ with no ready made heirs apparent. They really missed their shot at a smash and grab Flag this year where they had some really positive momentum happening.

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

If they have McStay on 650k they still be paying almost a mill including Grundy. Madness. Are they still paying Treloars wages?

The Grundy deal is a sunk cost, they can either take 650k from it to pay McStay or not. I'd be more than happy to pay McStay that.

We're paying Ben Brown and Tomlinson god knows what next year. Certainly more than the Pies will be paying Treloar and Grundy. That's going to be the reality of contracts now with so many older guys around the free agency age signing big money deals.

12 minutes ago, No. 31 said:

I really don't rate McStay that highly, has the occasional good game but is just an average, run of the mill forward in my books.

I think Collingwood will came back down to the middle of the ladder in the next season or two. Some of their key players are 30+ with no ready made heirs apparent. They really missed their shot at a smash and grab Flag this year where they had some really positive momentum happening.

Their best player is 19yr old. Sure they'll fall back from the pack next year as the draw gets harder and they stop fluking wins but once he moves into the middle, they will build their game around him. He will be very cheap for a few years and will probably play for slightly unders to remain a Pie, enabling them to attract other talent.  

Max is in my opinion the best ruckman in the league, however this season we persisted in him sharing the duties with Jackson. It was a great succession plan which has been nipped in the bud. When Jacko went into the ruck we always fell away a bit and we all questioned why start the game with Jackson in the centre. Jacko is a 20 y.o and his best is great but often he just disappears. He would have been offered $700 K if he stayed with us. What do we lose with Grundy? He is a better ruck, good below his knees and couldn't be worse than Jackson up forward. Jackson will not peak for a few more years where Grundy is established and if we get 3 good years out of him we are in front

Maybe Max cannot ruck the whole game as he has in the past. We don't know the ins and outs at the club and have to have faith in the match committee.

According to on the couch tonight by Ralph, Grundy has nominated us as his only destination.  That gives us more power in getting more of his salary covered but he pies.  Better to organise that swap before any Jackson deals :) 

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

The Grundy deal is a sunk cost, they can either take 650k from it to pay McStay or not. I'd be more than happy to pay McStay that.

Sure they could do that or you know, honour the contract they offered Grundy in the first place. 2 years into a 7 year deal. Disgraceful conduct

25 minutes ago, darkhorse72 said:

According to on the couch tonight by Ralph, Grundy has nominated us as his only destination.  That gives us more power in getting more of his salary covered but he pies.  Better to organise that swap before any Jackson deals :) 

Pick 90. Take it or leave it 😁

2 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Treloars deal runs until the end of 2025

supposedly 300k per year paid by the Pies

There must be a few blokes there on a  pittance. Would they know though. Perhaps it's the coach of no sitty downies.. 

6 hours ago, Hunt29 said:

I’m not overly keen on Grundy. We have the best ruck in the league. So we’re relying on them to kick a fair amount of goals between them for this to work. 30 minimum surely. Our forward line was dysfunctional this year so how does that improve by brining in another ruckman? 
If he comes in for a second rounder and with us only paying 600k it makes it easier to take. But we really don’t need him. I’m saying all this I’m 99% sure we’ll get him. 

I think the insight one can glean from us chasing a top 5 ruck is that Max can’t take much more of being flogged from pillar to post in the ruck anymore. And that we see his last few years as a FF who can ruck forward and go into the middle when needed.

What an amazing career he has had as the premier ruck for more than half a decade.

Now we try to fashion a forward line around him.

42 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I think the insight one can glean from us chasing a top 5 ruck is that Max can’t take much more of being flogged from pillar to post in the ruck anymore. And that we see his last few years as a FF who can ruck forward and go into the middle when needed.

What an amazing career he has had as the premier ruck for more than half a decade.

Now we try to fashion a forward line around him.

No doubt Max has been very banged up this year and a strength of ours has disappeared as a result. I don’t like Max forward at all but we can’t not play him at this stage of his career

We need a good ruckman to allow Clarry, Trac and Viney to work so we have to keep invested in that area. Grundy might even offer more by way of follow up or clearing space too.

Edited September 19, 20222 yr by BW511

6 minutes ago, BW511 said:

No doubt Max has been very banged up this year and a strength of ours has disappeared as a result. I don’t like Max forward at all but we can’t not play him at this stage of his career

We need a good ruckman to allow Clarry, Trac and Viney to work so we have to keep invested in that area. Grundy might even offer more by way of follow up or clearing space too.

It’s an interesting conundrum. I don’t rate ruckman contribution so Grundy has to get back to his best for us to get something out of this. I would just make Weideman back up and have limits of what Gawn does in the middle but I can see the allure of getting someone that doesn’t demand Max be thrown back in the ruck or sitting under kicks.

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

I think the insight one can glean from us chasing a top 5 ruck is that Max can’t take much more of being flogged from pillar to post in the ruck anymore. And that we see his last few years as a FF who can ruck forward and go into the middle when needed.

What an amazing career he has had as the premier ruck for more than half a decade.

Now we try to fashion a forward line around him.

Yes shame he cannot kick goals consistently  and he is banged up it seems

But get a goal kicker please!

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

I think the insight one can glean from us chasing a top 5 ruck is that Max can’t take much more of being flogged from pillar to post in the ruck anymore. And that we see his last few years as a FF who can ruck forward and go into the middle when needed.

What an amazing career he has had as the premier ruck for more than half a decade.

Now we try to fashion a forward line around him.

There is a possibility that max is capped at 50% ruck time due to injuries… he will be 31 next season. Unfortunately he is a liability up forward. Once the ball hits the ground the opposition easily clears. 
 

Could he play in defence instead? Not sure he is nimble enough to hold down a key forward 

For better or worse I think we are committed to Grundy. We will probably end up paying him as much as we offered Jackson. IMO Jackson will never be as good as Grundy so we have improved. How or who we get as a key forward is a more perplexing  question. Hopefully Tmac can get back early next season In good nick and JVR plays some good games in the seniors. The FD may also gets its head around using Petty in the forward line. That would enable us to move the search into 2024.  Overall I think we still have a very good line up available for 2023. 

Edited September 19, 20222 yr by old dee

The Grundy call makes plenty of sense, more teams are going to elect to play 2 ruckmen with talk of the bench increasing to 5. Having a quality AA ruck on the ground at all times will give us a significant advantage at stopages, making it harder for us to lose to territory game. There wouldn’t be too many teams that could complete in the clearances against us. 

4 minutes ago, GCDee said:

The Grundy call makes plenty of sense, more teams are going to elect to play 2 ruckmen with talk of the bench increasing to 5. Having a quality AA ruck on the ground at all times will give us a significant advantage at stopages, making it harder for us to lose to territory game. There wouldn’t be too many teams that could complete in the clearances against us. 

That last line is misleading - even with Gawn we could be smashed in there. We don’t seem to rate clearances very highly.

1 hour ago, BW511 said:

No doubt Max has been very banged up this year and a strength of ours has disappeared as a result. I don’t like Max forward at all but we can’t not play him at this stage of his career

We need a good ruckman to allow Clarry, Trac and Viney to work so we have to keep invested in that area. Grundy might even offer more by way of follow up or clearing space too.

Paul Salmon says Hi, played mainly ruck but turned into a pretty good Key Forward late in his career!

I don’t think Max is a key forward, but are we judging him in a year where he was banged up with a few injuries and playing to a game plan that doesn’t suit him?

Max used sparingly up forward and getting one out, is a different proposition to the one going up in the pocket with BBB and 3 defenders smashing them.

A fresher, fitter, Max, going forward for short bursts and being in space, is a real problem for the opposition. He won’t be out marked too often one on one. That’s how I see him being best used by us, with Grundy doing most of the heavy lifting.

He can work on his kicking for goal and that can improve and Grundy will prolong his career and have him fresher and fitter in finals.

11 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Paul Salmon says Hi, played mainly ruck but turned into a pretty good Key Forward late in his career!

You've got that arz about.  He started as a forward.  Was tracking towards the ton in his first season before blowing his knee up. Became a ruck after that 

8 hours ago, Jjrogan said:

Their best player is 19yr old. Sure they'll fall back from the pack next year as the draw gets harder and they stop fluking wins but once he moves into the middle, they will build their game around him. He will be very cheap for a few years and will probably play for slightly unders to remain a Pie, enabling them to attract other talent.  

Fair points and Nick Daicos is top quality. But they will need more than just him to build a Premiership side. The question will be is how they will fare without Pendlebury and Sidebottom who possess both quality and experience?

Max - give this a go...

Cluck Me Sideways!

Edited September 19, 20222 yr by TRIGON

10 minutes ago, No. 31 said:

Fair points and Nick Daicos is top quality. But they will need more than just him to build a Premiership side. The question will be is how they will fare without Pendlebury and Sidebottom who possess both quality and experience?

Their leadership got them through a lot of games this season.