POSTGAME: Rd 17 vs Geelong

[BenF 56]

4 minutes ago, layzie said:

I’m going to say this one more time because the inference that I don’t understand the significance or reason WHY we’re wearing the jumper in the first place is getting a bit frustrating.

In simple terms: 
-    I love what the jumper stands for and why we wore it, 10 out of 10, 100%, nail on the head, locked on. 
-    However, and this is the key bit of info: I do not like the jumper aesthetically from a personal point of view , that is it. I know it can be hard to separate the two things but if you could try your best that would be much appreciated. I have loved and have owned several indigenous guernseys in the past, they are some of my most cherished items. 

The Melbourne Football Club, since 1884 has worn these colours 🔴🔵.

Geelong wears these colours 🔵⚪.

In a game as fast paced as it is these days and the old chestnut of clash strips on slow news days, would you say that there is less chance of clash or more chance of clash if our team decided to wear the following colours?   🔴🔵⚪. Just a simple yes or no.

That's my peace, end of story. 

Appreciate your response. Thank you.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

And if Harmes is going to go back to thinking he's Petracca he can be dropped thanks. 

Angus needs to talk to him about what perfecting his role means. 

[deegirl 1,578]

On the fitness point - I keep forgetting that we were back to pre-season training a month later than the previous season.  That has to have an impact.

 

 

[layzie 33,814]

4 minutes ago, deegirl said:

On the fitness point - I keep forgetting that we were back to pre-season training a month later than the previous season.  That has to have an impact.

 

 

Throw on top of that the 5 day break after a tough game in Adelaide and the loading, they would understandably be running on fumes in that game. 

[Swooper1987 3,322]

I think the criticism of Gawn's game is a bit harsh.  As Goodwin pointed out our ruck gave the mids first look plenty of times (Gawn had 11 hitouts to advantage - basically a third) it was just that Geelong's pressure at clearance was better than ours.  I'm not sure that Viney and Harmes made great decisions a lot of the time either. They often looked to over possess instead of taking the first option.  In a territory game, on a territory ground like KP, moving the ball forward quickly often works better than the extra handball or two.

Secondly as the Fox Footy crew pointed out, and the Geelong players later confirmed, it was a strategy to not kick to a contest involving Gawn. They nullified his involvement by avoiding him.  Well done to them.  He will be better for the run.  The bigger disappointment for me was Jackson, who can't possibly have been fit.  43 ruck contests for the night and only 13 hitouts.  Only a couple of clearances and only 2 kicks.  About 120 metres gained.  In a game that required territory gain, that isn't good enough.

[The heart beats true 18,128]

36 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

It's a disgrace.

The fixture is uneven enough as it is. Refusing to send Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn and Richmond to play at Geelong's true home ground is unfair on the rest of us, and clearly we and North have had to bear the brunt of that unfairness more than the others.

It's time for the AFL to accept that supporters of all clubs, not just the big ones, miss out on attending games at GMHBA Stadium, and starts sending the five other Melbourne clubs down there on a routine basis (e.g. once every 2-3 years or something).

My biggest issue is Geelong don’t insist on. Every year Scott comes out and preaches to his local choir about how it’s unfair that they don’t play finals in Geelong - yet 2 weeks ago they played a Geelong ‘home’ game against Richmond at the MCG and nobody from their club said a word.

They are so hypocritical about it.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

1 hour ago, poita said:

Really ordinary performance from start to finish, very disappointing. Final margin 28 points, but could have been 60+ if Geelong had kicked straight.

Full credit to Geelong, they have improved their team since last year by bringing in new players and redeploying others, and their game plan is much improved. Meanwhile we persist with the same, tired old plan that has been worked out by every club in the competition. Further, we continue to gift games to players who are either carrying injuries or underdone, or horribly out of form.

If I didn't know better I would have assumed that our game plan in the first half was to have chains of handpasses going sideways and backwards until Viney or Harmes tried to run through a wall of opponents and were caught holding the ball. After half time the only tactic seemed to be bombing the ball down the line  to a pack of players where we were horribly outnumbered. On the rare occasions that we moved the ball quickly through the middle we looked quite dangerous.

May - contained Hawkins reasonably well, but was fumbly, indecisive and erratic in possession. A poor game overall.

Salem - has given nothing defensively or otherwise since his return. I would drop to Casey to find form. Hunt or Rivers would give more.

Harmes / Viney / Neal Bullen - A for effort, but F for execution. Please take the first option and, if in doubt, clear the area instead of taking on the tackler.

Jackson / Gawn - Jackson shouldn't have played, gave absolutely nothing. Gawn only marginally better. Weideman would have contributed more.

Bedford - nowhere near AFL standard unless he has acres of space to operate in. Happy to delist at year end.

Spargo - playing far too wide and too far from goal (again). Rarely accountable defensively.

Sparrow - not sure what he is contributing at present, exceptionally poor. Any number of Casey players could replace.

Langdon - showed no respect to Holmes, and allowed himself to be hemmed in against the boundary the entire game.

Jordon - season worst game, and the sooner we replace him on the wing with Brayshaw, the better. 

I'll give a bare pass mark to Oliver, Petracca, Petty, Lever and Hibberd, but overall a very poor team and coaching performance.

 

 

I agree largely with your assessment bar a few:

1. I think Bedford is promising - he needs a bit more opportunity and learning how to read the packs. Also needs to learn a little about defensive pressure. He has great goal awareness and breathtaking pace. I'd give him a few more years to be fair.

2. Langdon. We all know there are no wings at GMHBA so i knew Lingers was not going to be as effective as usual. Just accept this and move on.

The game plan doesnt need an overhaul, but it definitely needs some fine tuning. I remember saying this years ago - for it to work, you need to bring 100% effort, no exceptions. Lions just 2 weeks ago is a perfect example. If it is off, just one bit, then it will fall apart. I know coaches will say we will back our own system, blah blah. I largely agree with this, however you do need something a little different at GMHBA. We need some corridor ball movement.

[mauriesy 7,298]

So far in this thread it's been suggested that just about every player should "go back to Casey" for a spell to get better, "improve their craft", or recover ... even Max.

Yeah, that would work.

Edited July 8, 2022 by mauriesy

[Fritta and Turner 4,421]

10 hours ago, KysaiahMessiah said:

He played?

didnt you see him stuff it up?

[leave it to deever 17,511]

I'm over playing at the cattery.......gmbh...or kardinia park or whatever some marketing wiz comes up with.

Sure cats are a good side but we have their measure.

Our forward line is back to misery but playing at a packed out stadium in Geelong is like having to play the Eagles in a prelim in Perth.

Last year we played there and made comeback almost as big as Lazurus. (Apologies to any Christians)

But there wasn't 30,000 jeering, screaming, angry fanatical Geelong supporters egging their team on. (it makes a difference)

So here we go.........why do WE have to play there every single year.....alll the time. Share the load for goodness sake.

Let other Vic clubs play maybe even once every 3 years. But not us. Its been locked into the fixture for eons and Im sure will continue.

Say what you may about we should be able to beat them anywhere but Kardinia isnt anywhere. Its a ground the Geelong players know like the back of their grubby hands.

Seriously Collingwood wouldn't be caught dead there.

Although only just over an hour out of Melbourne town ......Its akin to playing an extra interstate game fgs.

Anyway, I feel better now.

Thanks for listening.

So hoping we bounce back next week.

And also a giant raspberry to all the dlanders who were calling for Tmac to be dropped. ( Be careful for what you ask for).

 

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Small forwards didn’t show up last night.

Chandler was unlucky last week and hopefully gets recognised next outing.

 

[Fat Tony 5,231]

Hibberd looked every bit like a 32 year old coming off a 5-day break. He should have been rested (as suggested).

The side also missed another key forward on the skinny ground.

While this game was lost in the midfield, we have to be a bit smarter about selection on the short breaks. Our best 22 on paper is not always the best 22 to win the game. Since 2020 we are 1-4 on 4-day or 5-day breaks.

[The heart beats true 18,128]

5 day rest off a combative interstate night game at the hardest ground to win at in Australia. Context is everything.

We are better than we looked last night. Our draw is a literal joke compared to everyone else’s. Just got to stick together and back each other in to get the job done when it counts. 

[Adam The God 30,261]

I was at the game last night and we couldn't get out of first gear. I'm sure that was obvious on TV too. Yet we were level and should have been ahead 15 mins into the last quarter.

It was very clear watching it from the top of the centre wing stand that our defensive transition wasn't on all night. We allowed them short chips that we don't usually allow when we're on, we allowed Duncan to constantly sit at the back of stoppages unmarked and we allowed them to get into some incredibly dangerous goal side positions completely unmarked. Highly unusual. They constantly got it on the outside at stoppage too.

How often have we been beaten at stoppage like that in the last 5 years? I can't remember us losing stoppage by so much. 

Our fumbling was dreadful, May in particular was terrible again. I've said for a long time now, even for much of last year, that May panics with ball in hand in deep D50. Much prefer Petty, Bowey or Salem with ball in hand.

Lever also dropped quite a few marks he'd taken the previous two weeks. You can't let the ball hit the ground against their forward mob.

We each had a five day break, but we had interstate travel, they played at home against the worst AFL side since Melbourne in 2012-2013.

Can you tell I'm building an argument for exhaustion being a big factor in last night's game? 

It'll be interesting to see how we go against Port and the Bulldogs. If we've timed our run well, we should start to see a fitness turn around against Freo. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by A F

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

We were really poor last night.

I am not buying the home ground advantage, 5 day interstate break excuse, they had about 3 hours less break.

You can't excuse getting smashed in clearances which hasn't happened to us for years. This and some awful decision making turnovers cost us the game.

Cats with their dream run home will be minor premiers but still think we'll be top 4.

[Macca 16,972]

High pressure and intense encounter but not the best in terms of showcasing the sport

If the game was played under the roof at Docklands we would have seen far better skills and way less fumbling (wet & slippery conditions vs a dry surface)

And a lot more supporters from both teams could have attended the game

If I wasn't a Demon supporter I'm not sure I would have watched the game.  For most of the match it was a messy spectacle

The diehards might disagree but TV needs lots of neutral fans

Edited July 8, 2022 by Macca

[demoncat 1,440]

1 hour ago, Vipercrunch said:

Here's some 2021 post bye facts for those that seem to be looking at 2021 with September colourled glasses on.

Round 15 - Held off Essendon by 11 points, 57-68.                                                              https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/3108#match-report

Round 16 - Beaten by GWS by 9, 55-64.                                                                                https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/3100#match-report

Round 17 - Our best game and win for this period, a 31 point win over Port Adelaide at their home ground, 55-86.      https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/3125#match-report

Round 18 - After leading by 27 points midway through the second term, we finish with a draw with Hawthorn, 79-79.      https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/3123#match-report

Round 19 - The Bulldogs get revenge for round 11 to beat us 65-85.                          https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/3159#match-report

Our avergae score for this period was 70.6 (2021 season avergae was 85.8)

Our avergae score against this period was 68 (2021 season avergae was 65.6)

Interestingly, despite that 5 week record (6 if you include the 2021 QB loss to Collingwood 63-80), in the press conference after the Round 19 loss to WBD, when asked about our scoring, Simon Goodwin said "I'm not worried one bit", "We sit here confident", and in regards more generally to how the team was going, he said "I think we're pretty close. As a footy club we're not far away." and "We're certainly not going to jump at shadows."  

https://www.afl.com.au/news/652025/-not-worried-one-bit-goodwin-upbeat-on-dees-scoring-woes

https://www.afl.com.au/video/653832/full-post-match-demons?videoId=653832&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1627133400001

Great reminder Vipercrunch. The fact is where we sit at this point of the season is tracking with where we were at the same point last season. 

Now, that is not to say that we should excuse or ignore poor performances and ongoing issues. There are clearly things that we need to work on and the club admits as much - just like they did last year when we went through our down patch. 

But I think that people need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture before declaring that our season is over. People were making the same calls last year and look where we ended up. 

If we are indeed still loading - and I am on the side that we are given that we once again looked fatigued and therefore slow and fumbly - it is a necessary step we have to take to be at out best come finals.

Anyway, all of this is to say that I will be more worried if we play like this in the last few rounds of the year, not when we're in this loading phase and certainly not when we're playing on that ant mound that Geelong calls a stadium.

Edited July 8, 2022 by demoncat

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

The day after a loss is yuck. I much prefer the high of a Thursday win!!

Anyway, with some reflection I'm not TOO upset about last night's loss, even though we were very ordinary. 

We lost to the now #1 team. While we had a blinder against the Lions, we've been shaky for a long time. Probably even the whole year. So we're been wobbling, then we come up against a white hot team who get to play at home, after an emphatic win against witches hats. And they play a blinder (lucky they didn't kick straight otherwise the scoreline would have been more honest), their Grand Final. Which is fine. Nobody is getting the flag this week. 

What to do? Well, there needs to be an honest assessment of what's going on. We've got Port next week. A perfect game to go back to executing basics. We were fumbly all night last night. Remove some of the fancy Hollywood stuff. Look for teammates in good positions, and execute the pass. LOWER the eyes going into the 50. Can somebody please put together a montage of all our greatest hits going forward this year? It would comprise about a billion bombs into our 50, mostly for nothing. Rubbish.

We need to STOP doing that. Stafford - please fix, earn those $$$

We really need some of the guys who have had quieter years to remember the message sent by Gawn this year that we are hungry for a dynasty. If they want a dynasty, they will have to earn it. Spargo has been quiet, as has ANB (at times). Bowzer looks to be rattled by losses. Salem has not been himself since the injury - geez we need him back, he's critical back there. May had a stinker last night, but that won't happen again. Ben Brown needs to lift. We really need TMac or a TMac sort up there. I love that Fritta is goal thirsty, and when he is kicking bags, nobody complains, but I agree that he's burnt a few teammates recently and it's not a good look, it goes against the selflessness that won us a flag and he needs to return to 2021 vision.

We're second, with a tough draw ahead, but we won't win the flag if we can't get through those sides anyway. We should beat Port, Doggies, Pies and the Blues. If we drop Freo and the Lions at their home ground, so be it. But they should at least be close, respectable losses that don't lose us any form, and hopefully they give us a final look into those teams for the finals, as they're likely to be in the top 4 mix.

We're 6 weeks out from the finals, this is when we need to hit our straps, and honestly I think it's a pretty good timeline. The Cats have peaked too early IMO. We'll roll them in the finals (again), if we meet.

But we need to hit our straps. Everyone needs to rewatch the GF, some 2021 highlights, revisit their vision for the club, whatever they have to do to recapture some magic.

We can win this, but it's got to start now, it can't be expected to magically fall into place in the finals without some lead-in form. 

TL;DR - not panicking. Incredibly talented group. We just need to focus on the basics, be smarter i50 and work our a**es off. 

Go Dees.

[Stiff Arm 4,419]

11 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If we lose the next 6 games i will be worried, but we won’t 

September is still in the distance. No need to peak early 

Between Rounds 12-18 last year we were fairly ordinary….

Yes, but our run home last year was considerably easier. On current form we are in danger 5 of the remaining 6

That the finals are 6 weeks away is no comfort from the fact that we look very ordinary now and anything but a top 4 side. To think otherwise is head in the sand stuff

How specifically do you suggest we turn things around? What tactical or personnel changes are required?

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,938]

11 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

It would never happened but I'd genuinely drop him purely for that act.

Let's remember that this has been an ongoing theme with Fritsch all year and not just off tonight..

Or at the very least send the runner out straight away and drag him. My Under 14 girls know that if they burn a team mate and cough up a gimme goal to head to the bench before the runner comes out. Unfortunately Bailey has form.

[BDA 22,755]

Disappointing result. I was sure we would win but in hindsight i didn't give due consideration to the 5 day break factor

We’re not leaving ourselves much margin for error. Must beat Port and Doggies in our next 2 games

Our injury profile is pretty good other than TMac. As important as he is to our structure we should be able to cover his absence and re-jig our forward set-up

If we can avoid injuries I’m confident we will time our run and be primed for September. But we need to keep picking up wins while we're loading. It seems to be a fine balance. No point talking about September if we don't win enough H&A games. We won’t win the flag if we finish outside the top 4

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,842]

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

We need to make finals first.

We will make finals because we only need one more to qualify (13 wins) And that win should come next week vs Port.

However to beat one of Freo, Collingwood, Carlton, Or Brisbane we’re going to need to step up our game in all sorts of areas.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,221]

2 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

In 2020 with our season waining, Goody used the term "ruthless....we have to be more ruthless".

For this season he might want to add "Selfless, we need to be more selfless".

Well now's his chance to follow the ruthless and selfless sides through.

Fritsch should be out for a stint at Casey to work on his selfless acts.  Bottom line you can't have selflish players if you want to make a GF and win the big one.

Selfless footy is catchy...and so is selfish footy.

Coach needs to be ruthless here for everyone's sake.  Huge opportunity to make that statement this week.  Don't stuff it up son.  Hard call but has to happen.

It won't. He is our leading goalkickers this year, has kicked goals in each game. We already have an underdone forward line and you want to remove our biggest weapon down there? Come on be serious.

A word to him about making sure he looks at options instead of blazibg away should be sufficient. Certainly not the reason we lost last night.

[jnrmac 20,090]

Have a look at May in the first qtr

His kick ins were skewed off his boot. Nowhere near as precise as usual (and yes we are well and truly sick of the kick to the left FFS Goody!)

He continually fumbled

His timing was out and he was as nervous as a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Something was wrong

 

 

[jnrmac 20,090]

6 minutes ago, BDA said:

Disappointing result. I was sure we would win but in hindsight i didn't give due consideration to the 5 day break factor

We’re not leaving ourselves much margin for error. Must beat Port and Doggies in our next 2 games

Our injury profile is pretty good other than TMac. As important as he is to our structure we should be able to cover his absence and re-jig our forward set-up

If we can avoid injuries I’m confident we will time our run and be primed for September. But we need to keep picking up wins while we're loading. It seems to be a fine balance. No point talking about September if we don't win enough H&A games. We won’t win the flag if we finish outside the top 4

Geelong had 5 days too. Its no excuse