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Is our offense a problem?

Vipercrunch
Vipercrunch
in Melbourne Demons

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Anyone watch Llloydy's critique of Max King's set shot kicking woes this morning on the Footy Show?  I hope some of our boys were watching.  Basically running in too slow causes you to lean back on the last step searching for power on the kick.  But instead the lean causes you to shank left (mostly) and sometimes even right a la Gawny most of the time (and others!).

Solution here...

https://wwos.nine.com.au/afl/news-2022-matthew-lloyd-willing-to-coach-max-king-whacks-st-kilda-coach-brett-rattens-call/79747943-b4ec-4881-bc54-cfe71c470648

Edited by Demon Dynasty

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    • Like 2
    19 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

    Anyone watch Llloydy's critique of Max King's set shot kicking woes this morning on the Footy Show?  I hope some of our boys were watching.  Basically running in too slow causes you to lean back on the last step searching for power on the kick.  But instead the lean causes you to shank left (mostly) and sometimes even right a la Gawny most of the time (and others!).

    Solution here...

    https://wwos.nine.com.au/afl/news-2022-matthew-lloyd-willing-to-coach-max-king-whacks-st-kilda-coach-brett-rattens-call/79747943-b4ec-4881-bc54-cfe71c470648

    Trac is an even worse culprit of this flaw. BBB, despite his long run up, had actually a good technique.

     

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    •  

    Fritsch holds the ball dead straight and still above his left leg, walks in slowly but builds in speed the last 3-4 steps and kicks over the ball straight with a straight drop and a straight follow through. It's not rocket science

    Yes I know he sometimes gets the yips, but this is exactly how everyone should kick for goal

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    • Like 1

    There has been a lot written on DL regarding our ability to score, i50 problems and delivery during 2022, and how this will impact on our upcoming finals campaign. Perhaps with one round to go it's a good time to look at some statistical facts on 2021 v 2022.

                          2021                  2022

    Position         1                          3

    Points            66                        60

    PF                 1'807                1'821

    PA                 1'366                1'427

    %                   132.2               127.7

    So in comparison to 2021, our offence has scored 14 extra points over 21 games (0.7% improvement - statistically no different), whereas our defence has conceded and additional 61 points (4.5% decline). Yet there are people on DL who have been very critical of our 'Forward Connection' and a number of the players in the forward line. IMO our problem this year has been our inability to prevent our opponents scoring, especially at crucial moments in a few games that could have gone either way. Surely this is due to injuries/ailments to our four key defenders, as well as a drop in form of some of the younger defenders playing around them (these are most likely connected).

    Have faith people, we are nowhere near as far of the mark as some on here believe.

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    Not much else to say other than I completely agree and continue to shake my head when 'forward connection' is brought up as the reason we've lost games! 

    I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe where 2021 Melbourne scored 140 points in every game. Every time we play, everyone is subconsciously judging us against our prelim slaughtering and 1 and a half quarters of perfect football in the granny. 

    It's all fugazi! Tune up our contest work behind the ball and we're in it up to our eyeballs.

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    1 hour ago, Fushcia Demonatia said:

    There has been a lot written on DL regarding our ability to score, i50 problems and delivery during 2022, and how this will impact on our upcoming finals campaign. Perhaps with one round to go it's a good time to look at some statistical facts on 2021 v 2022.

                          2021                  2022

    Position         1                          3

    Points            66                        60

    PF                 1'807                1'821

    PA                 1'366                1'427

    %                   132.2               127.7

    So in comparison to 2021, our offence has scored 14 extra points over 21 games (0.7% improvement - statistically no different), whereas our defence has conceded and additional 61 points (4.5% decline). Yet there are people on DL who have been very critical of our 'Forward Connection' and a number of the players in the forward line. IMO our problem this year has been our inability to prevent our opponents scoring, especially at crucial moments in a few games that could have gone either way. Surely this is due to injuries/ailments to our four key defenders, as well as a drop in form of some of the younger defenders playing around them (these are most likely connected).

    Have faith people, we are nowhere near as far of the mark as some on here believe.

    In addition, we have had a much harder draw this season.

    And no tmac for a big block of matches.

    Edited by binman

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    Total offence or total scoring stats are a bit misleading as they don't really tell you how the forward line has performed in either year.

    Having said that both years are high numbers so I'll back us in.

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    •  

    This year it is a very even top 6 .   Absolutely anyone could win the flag.  Even the old guys jeelong. But it is the pointy end of the season. 
    and we are in it up to our necks. 
    have faith and Go Dees.  All we can do is win on Friday night.

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    What do they say about ads for super?

    ’Past performance is not a true indicator of future performance.’

    The reps from the club talk about forward connection as something to work on, and it is not a fait accompli that it happens like it did last year. 

    We don’t have TMac, we are not consistently pressuring like we did, we are not getting forward turnover score like we did, we can’t afford to have an abundance of I50s and not make the most of it because when we have those impotent patches it actually gives our opposition a lift. We need to lower our eyes, look more laterally on quick plays, do more to get Fritsch open on slow plays, and when we do go deep, go deep enough to avoid Andrews (and then Stewart/McCartin/Broad et al).

    There is too much conflation with 2021 on here in my view. Lightning in a bottle was the last month of 2021…

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    • Like 2
    21 hours ago, binman said:

    In addition, we have had a much harder draw this season.

    And no tmac for a big block of matches.

    If you rate the draw on how many games against top 8 sides then it is identical.  Last year 10.  This year 9 (10th tonight). 

    Same for top 4 matchups (4 each season).

    The difference this year we only played 1 game against a current top 8 team in our first 10, and will have played 9/12 in the run home. So not an ideal way to plan loading :-)

    The other difference is against top 8 sides only one team kicked more than 80 points against us last year (Dogs in their win).  This years it’s been 4 (3 over 90 points).  We have been more up and down defensively.

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    Well theres nothing offensive about the sweet can of Hop Nation J-Juice I'm about to crack!

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    • Like 1

    No. Close topic! Melbourne are a Finals team. That is when our offense kicks in!

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    For anyone interested in our top 10 goalkickers in the H&A season this year and how they compare to last year here is a list.

    Top 10 goalkickers in 2021:

    1. Fritsch - 47 goals
    2. Pickett - 35 goals 
    3. McDonald - 30 goals 
    4. Petracca - 24 goals 
    5. Brown - 19 goals 
    6. Jackson - 15 goals
    7. Spargo - 14 goals 
    8. Neal-Bullen - 13 goals 
    9. Langdon - 11 goals
    10. Gawn - 11 goals 

    Top 10 goalkickers in 2022:

    1. Fritsch - 50 goals
    2. Pickett - 38 goals
    3. Brown - 29 goals
    4. Petracca - 19 goals
    5. Mcdonald - 15 goals
    6. Weidemann - 13 goals
    7. Harmes - 12 goals
    8. Gawn - 12 goals
    9. Jackson - 11 goals
    10. Melksham - 11 goals

    Very good season by Fritta and Kozzy again with Kozzy kicking 18 goals in his last 6 games. 

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    16 minutes ago, Deenooos_ said:

    For anyone interested in our top 10 goalkickers in the H&A season this year and how they compare to last year here is a list.

    Top 10 goalkickers in 2021:

    1. Fritsch - 47 goals
    2. Pickett - 35 goals 
    3. McDonald - 30 goals 
    4. Petracca - 24 goals 
    5. Brown - 19 goals 
    6. Jackson - 15 goals
    7. Spargo - 14 goals 
    8. Neal-Bullen - 13 goals 
    9. Langdon - 11 goals
    10. Gawn - 11 goals 

    Top 10 goalkickers in 2022:

    1. Fritsch - 50 goals
    2. Pickett - 38 goals
    3. Brown - 29 goals
    4. Petracca - 19 goals
    5. Mcdonald - 15 goals
    6. Weidemann - 13 goals
    7. Harmes - 12 goals
    8. Gawn - 12 goals
    9. Jackson - 11 goals
    10. Melksham - 11 goals

    Very good season by Fritta and Kozzy again with Kozzy kicking 18 goals in his last 6 games. 

    2021:         Points Scored             Points Conceded

                       1888 = 85.81avg       1443 = 65.59avg

    2022:        Points Scored              Points Conceded

                      1936.00  = 88avg             1483 =67.4avg

     

    Edited by Engorged Onion

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    • Like 1

    Our connection was superb on Friday. So efficient with the footy going forward. I know the opposition was allowing time and space but still, we were leading at the footy and getting into space.

    Good tune up. For those that think there was nothing to improve… that wasn’t an improvement?

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    • Like 3
    7 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

    2021:         Points Scored             Points Conceded

                       1888 = 85.81avg       1443 = 65.59avg

    2022:        Points Scored              Points Conceded

                      1936.00  = 88avg             1483 =67.4avg

     

    Almost identical to last year. It can only mean one thing; Guaranteed back to back flags🏆 🤪🥹

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    Other improvements were we went to the pocket less and when we did the player often looked for an option closer to goal instead of taking the shot.  The result was many of our scores came from shots closer to and at good angles to goal.

    Hence our vastly improved accuracy.  

    Friday night's positions for shots at goal were very similar to how we played the GF, especially the second half.   

    I reckon it was a rehearsal for how our ball movement happens in our fwd half and i50 in the finals. 

    Teams preparing for us to play down the line and into the pocket will not be ready.

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    • Like 2

    43 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

    2021:         Points Scored             Points Conceded

                       1888 = 85.81avg       1443 = 65.59avg

    2022:        Points Scored              Points Conceded

                      1936.00  = 88avg             1483 =67.4avg

     

    The noticeable difference though (which isn't necessarily a reflection of our forwards) is in the second halves:

    2021:         Points Scored             Points Conceded              %

                       983 = 44.68avg          627 = 28.5avg                156.78

    2022:        Points Scored              Points Conceded              %

                      898  = 40.81avg             808 =36.72vg              111.14

    And when you look at just 4th quarters it's even worse (won't bother with all the numbers, just %)

    2021: 144.44

    2022: 92.84

    Over the last month when we seem to have started to see improvement (maybe in part due to more Jackson in the ruck/Gawn forward), our percentage has been 138.34%.

    The second halves are still a problem though and it that period we're going at only 99.32%.

    In the same period in 2021 our percentage was 165.23%, and our second halves went at a staggering 211.45%.

    Long story short, our second halves are still an issue even though our form has improved, and we are nowhere near as flying as we were this time last year.

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    Is our offence a problem? Yeah, maybe at times during the home and away season. Come finals….nah, it will be one of our strengths. How do I know? Just a vibe. GO DEES

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    On 8/13/2022 at 9:37 AM, Watson11 said:

    That article is missing the real cause of our poor defence. It’s our forward line (and mids) forward pressure and defensive structure.  Using last week as an example, the pies scored 6 goals from chains that started in defensive 50.  If we apply forward 50 pressure like last year, then they score maybe 1 goal from those chains and we score 3 goals on forward half turnover.   We end up with 16 goals and they end up with 10.  That’s what our games looked like last year.

    Most of our losses have been the same (we have given up too many easy goals from lack of pressure upfield) that has been exposed since teams have started taking on risky kicks out of defensive 50. 

     

    if we kicked early goals in first quarter domination we should have won 2 possibly 3 games

    Bad goal kicking is still our major issue

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    •  
    38 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

    The noticeable difference though (which isn't necessarily a reflection of our forwards) is in the second halves:

    2021:         Points Scored             Points Conceded              %

                       983 = 44.68avg          627 = 28.5avg                156.78

    2022:        Points Scored              Points Conceded              %

                      898  = 40.81avg             808 =36.72vg              111.14

    And when you look at just 4th quarters it's even worse (won't bother with all the numbers, just %)

    2021: 144.44

    2022: 92.84

    Over the last month when we seem to have started to see improvement (maybe in part due to more Jackson in the ruck/Gawn forward), our percentage has been 138.34%.

    The second halves are still a problem though and it that period we're going at only 99.32%.

    In the same period in 2021 our percentage was 165.23%, and our second halves went at a staggering 211.45%.

    Long story short, our second halves are still an issue even though our form has improved, and we are nowhere near as flying as we were this time last year.

    Actually you don’t think it’s more to do with the building of form into the finals footy that Goodwin coaches us to play?  The coaches & the players have had to contend with 17 other coaches who would have studied us ad nauseam in the off season so whilst sticking to the “nuts and bolts” of our game plan they would have tweaked and adjusted according to who we play & what personnel were available. No use showing the rest of the comp our finished product before finals. Clever coach Goodwin   

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    • Like 1
    46 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

    The noticeable difference though (which isn't necessarily a reflection of our forwards) is in the second halves:

    2021:         Points Scored             Points Conceded              %

                       983 = 44.68avg          627 = 28.5avg                156.78

    2022:        Points Scored              Points Conceded              %

                      898  = 40.81avg             808 =36.72vg              111.14

    And when you look at just 4th quarters it's even worse (won't bother with all the numbers, just %)

    2021: 144.44

    2022: 92.84

    Over the last month when we seem to have started to see improvement (maybe in part due to more Jackson in the ruck/Gawn forward), our percentage has been 138.34%.

    The second halves are still a problem though and it that period we're going at only 99.32%.

    In the same period in 2021 our percentage was 165.23%, and our second halves went at a staggering 211.45%.

    Long story short, our second halves are still an issue even though our form has improved, and we are nowhere near as flying as we were this time last year.

    Good post Nev, very interesting and you can see with the eyes we arent anywhere near last year. Unsure if you have time, but I'd love to see the same stats applied to just i50's??

    See what they compare v last year. Maybe its similar, but our connection and conversion is much worse?

    Maybe, just maybe, the switch was flicked v Brisbane.

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