I don’t know who our ‘forward captain’ is but in that last term we had 3 times where we had someone outside 50, waiting for an option to kick into our forward  line and literally the entire forward line was standing still, no leads, nothing.

This is under 12’s stuff.

I remember earlier in the year, a broadcaster was showing our forward line where everyone was moving and they used it as an example of how hard this is to defend against. 
 

That went completely missing in the last qtr tonight and I have no idea how an AFL standard team, let alone a premiership defending one, could allow this to happen especially when the game was on the line.

 

Our forward connection has never been the best, but it’s worrying seeing this level of ZERO EFFORT from our forwards.  

We have been like this for weeks and weeks. 
The coaches haven’t changed it so they must want it this way.

I thought our game plan was to kick to the hole in the forward line where Swans players would mark unopposed.. happened far too often

Seems like the only forwards that offer leads are the smalls and Langdon, such that when the long ball inevitably gets kicked deep into the pocket to a 3 or 4 on one, there are no crumbers anywhere to be seen. It really is completely dysfunctional at the minute.

One of the worst things is we are not honouring leads anymore. Prefer to bomb it to top of square. The number of times blokes were 10 metres clear and we ignored them was ridiculous.

Fritsch and BBB are regularly double and triple teamed so there must be better options.

Maybe it is a game plan thing where if there is a turnover after a lead the counter attack is much easier than if we bomb it to congestion.

 

Edited June 4, 20222 yr by dee-tox

  On 04/06/2022 at 12:31, dee-tox said:

One of the worst things is we are not honouring leads anymore. Prefer to bomb it to top of square. The number of times blokes were 10 metres clear and we ignored them was ridiculous.

Fritsch and BBB are regularly double and triple teamed so there must be better options.

Maybe it is a game plan thing where if there is a turnover after a lead the counter attack is much easier than if we bomb it to congestion.

 

The bombing it to the top of square thing works out when we are able to lock it in our 50 for like 5 minutes straight and get repeated entries over and over again. In a game like last week or tonight where the oppo was able to waltz out of of forward 50, means we need to make the most of our entries. We did it in the first quarter when we were winning clearances, outside of that we just seem to have no plan B. 
 

And yeah you’re 100%, leads aren’t being honoured. During the 2nd and 3rd there were guys in so much space and they were ignored.

Brown's out of form, but to be fair to him and as has been noted already, there were a number of times tonight when he was either leading and ignored, or leaving space to lead into but the kick went somewhere worse.

We overcame poor mid-forward connection last year. We're going to need to do it again, because it's the dominant reason for our loss tonight.

  On 04/06/2022 at 13:47, titan_uranus said:

Brown's out of form, but to be fair to him and as has been noted already, there were a number of times tonight when he was either leading and ignored, or leaving space to lead into but the kick went somewhere worse.

We overcame poor mid-forward connection last year. We're going to need to do it again, because it's the dominant reason for our loss tonight.

What I don’t understand is why we didn’t have game awareness to adapt to what was happening?

The best teams in the same situation of past years would have:

Had their forward line constantly in motion with dummy leads disorientating oppo defence until the right option presents itself 

Or

Forwards creating blocks on oppo defenders allowing space for a forward to make a lead. They would have some kind of set ‘play’ for lack of a better word. 

 

At a crucial time in the game, our forward line was stationary. No blocks, no forwards pointing where they wanted it, no dummy leads. Just, stationary.
 

I don’t understand how we were expecting to score by doing this at a time when we had to get a goal right then and there. We gave ourselves no chance. 

It’s not just the forwards it’s also our midfield. We applaud blokes like Viney who win the tough ball and do the hard stuff, but we ignore the times Viney hacks it forward and doesn’t give our forwards a chance at all. McCartin brothers just mopped up. If you hack it forward then the more Viney gets it the worse we’ll be, unless he a) composes himself, or b) gives it off to a link player who is in a better position to execute. It’s not just Viney either. It’s all our mids excluding Petracca, and I only exclude Petracca because to butcher the ball you have to find it and Petracca is not willing to do that. So why are our midfield butchering it against the better sides? Opposition midfield pressure. Sydney were great at that today, and it’s also a weakness of theirs we couldn’t exploit because our midfield didn’t work both ways. The solution is to work better defensively, and spread from the spillage or free kicks, giving us space to execute. And if we primarily have possession of the ball we need a link player who can execute going inside 50. That would be Kossi, Bowie (now Salem is down back), Harmes (is capable needs to compose himself and focus on effectiveness and no Viney “hack it on the boot” style), maybe even Bailie Laurie. The idea of an effective midfield is to clear the ball efficiently going inside 50. We aren’t doing that and we are getting beaten in the middle and up forward. 

Edited June 4, 20222 yr by KingDingAling

Yeah, Fritsch was our only designated forward to kick any goals against Sydney. And here's what trouble's me most about that - if he can get them, then they are possible. So why did Brown and Brown, combined, had seven kicks and six marks?

Meanwhile, our fleet of crumbers simply weren't getting forward to put enough pressure on to cause the rushed rebound-50s that are so crucial for our intercepting and counter-attacking game.

 

  On 04/06/2022 at 14:58, Little Goffy said:

Yeah, Fritsch was our only designated forward to kick any goals against Sydney. And here's what trouble's me most about that - if he can get them, then they are possible. So why did Brown and Brown, combined, had seven kicks and six marks?

Meanwhile, our fleet of crumbers simply weren't getting forward to put enough pressure on to cause the rushed rebound-50s that are so crucial for our intercepting and counter-attacking game.

 

BBB needs a stint in the VFL.

  On 04/06/2022 at 14:58, Little Goffy said:

Yeah, Fritsch was our only designated forward to kick any goals against Sydney. And here's what trouble's me most about that - if he can get them, then they are possible. So why did Brown and Brown, combined, had seven kicks and six marks?

Meanwhile, our fleet of crumbers simply weren't getting forward to put enough pressure on to cause the rushed rebound-50s that are so crucial for our intercepting and counter-attacking game.

Well it's not that simple of course - the Browns had bigger and better defenders on them most of the time, as did Gawn when he was forward. Fritsch is able to get off the leash for that reason sometimes.

But also, simply put, Fritsch is better than the Browns right now. He's in better form, he's holding his marks better, he's got enough pace to get away from his opponent but enough strength to not drop it in a contest.

As for the crumbers, part of the problem was we were being outmarked in our forward 50. Can't put pressure on them when they're marking it. In the fourth quarter we were crying out for the ball to hit the deck if we couldn't grab it, but we kept getting outmarked. Coaches routinely talk about the importance of bringing the ball to ground. B and M Brown last night failed in that regard.

We need a new forward coach, we have for years, even before the premiership. 

WE were lowering our eyes in the first quarter but if we keep bombing it in we need a pack crasher, because its not [censored]ing  Weideman.

This is so true. I was screaming it at the screen for most of the 2nd half. I could not believe the times Harmes gut ran into F50, provided an option by moving about, and was seen but ignored. Everyone else was standing still waiting for the pack to form. This was simply an invitation to the McCartin & McCartin show to show us their best, and Rampe LOVES this scenario. 

Great coaching by Longmire, and great discipline by the Swans players.

We are back 2019 and 2020 kicking to that 25m out spot with 2 th 3 flying for same mark. 

This is also to do with what teams are doing against us, numbers in our forward 50m arc and get us on the rebound.  There is no space up there that is why centre clearance work is so important.

The dependent issue is our forward half pressure or lack thereof; we then fall back to our zone which sees all our forwards up to centre wing.

From a quick turnover we have to go sideways to go forward instead of getting BBB a run at the footy. 

We average 8 goals from turnover this year and got none against Sydney.

And don’t be fooled by ‘repeat entries’ when our zone keeps it parked in our forward line we have no space to do anything with it.

So while I am not at all pleased with some of the forward craft, until we get back to our pressure game and winning the ball back when our forwards are actually forward, OR releasing Fritsch and Brown from the zone (which is not ideal) then we can’t blame our talls…

Last year at a similar time we went into a heavy training phase, and our form dipped along with it, due to increased fatigue from the players. 

What i know about Selwyn Griffiths program which is admittedly very little, is that it's quite running heavy and designed to help us run teams off their feet heading into finals, similar to last year, 

I suspect something similar is happening and why our form has dipped slightly, combined with unavailability and injury to key players. 

I think this is also the cause for our reversion to Bomb it long and hope for the best demons. the coaches would never admit this publicly i don't think

  On 04/06/2022 at 15:07, KingDingAling said:

BBB needs a stint in the VFL.

Or at the Manor for a jolly good flogging by the hands of BBO

  On 04/06/2022 at 12:24, Kiss of Death said:

I thought our game plan was to kick to the hole in the forward line where Swans players would mark unopposed.. happened far too often

…. and last week v Freo too.   

  On 05/06/2022 at 02:41, Ham said:

We need a new forward coach, we have for years, even before the premiership. 

We need a strongly built, skilled deep KPP forward, with a touch of mongrel. Neita would have been a perfect fit into this team. 

It's a few things - someone mentioned no blocking which can't be done without November from the forwards.

The second part is being outmarked by oppo defenders, something which losing TMac really hurts us with. If our forwards don't mark it fine, but they can't get outmarked. They need to bring it to group d for our small forwards or so that when their defenders get it our pressure causes a hack kick and turnover.

Which brings me to the next point, the pressure all over the ground but particularly in our forward line has been lacking for sometime. We haven't been locking it in and getting repeat entries - it happened for about 20 minutes in the 3rd quarter last night but we didn't capitalise

I wonder how many of the people who have spent the last three years potting Tom McDonald are prepared to put their hand up and admit they got it badly wrong. He is the one player in our forward line who blocks and creates space for his teammates, and leads to different parts of the ground. It doesn't show up in his stats very often, but I can guarantee that B.Brown and Fritsch would notice when he is not there.

  On 05/06/2022 at 12:17, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's a few things - someone mentioned no blocking which can't be done without November from the forwards.

The second part is being outmarked by oppo defenders, something which losing TMac really hurts us with. If our forwards don't mark it fine, but they can't get outmarked. They need to bring it to group d for our small forwards or so that when their defenders get it our pressure causes a hack kick and turnover.

Which brings me to the next point, the pressure all over the ground but particularly in our forward line has been lacking for sometime. We haven't been locking it in and getting repeat entries - it happened for about 20 minutes in the 3rd quarter last night but we didn't capitalise

Don't understand your first sentence.

  On 05/06/2022 at 22:23, poita said:

I wonder how many of the people who have spent the last three years potting Tom McDonald are prepared to put their hand up and admit they got it badly wrong. He is the one player in our forward line who blocks and creates space for his teammates, and leads to different parts of the ground. It doesn't show up in his stats very often, but I can guarantee that B.Brown and Fritsch would notice when he is not there.

Fritta is our best forward - TMac would be my # 2 then a big gap thereafter

If he has a long term injury that is a serious problem for this team going forward

I genuinely feel we need to try something new whether it be Joel Smith (unfortunately injured) or Petty in F50

Weid, BBB and M Brown have almost zero physical presence

A Jesse Hogan type would be nice player to crash the pack, mark the ball and/or bring the ball to ground for our scrappers while our mids bomb it in under pressure.