Just to confirm. JVR was omitted (dropped) from the team for round 7, recalled for round 9, then now omitted for our round 10 game. Hardly given a chance to regain form in any format. Really hope we get him back in form and back in the team as a key forward is crucial to any future.

20 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Ah we need an ex-forward to coach him…

I don’t know about that ‘direction’ - what I have seen is a forward line that didn’t push up as much as it had in previous years and trying to make the ground bigger when we move out of our backline - completely necessary for getting out of def 50. That isn’t ’stay back and wrestle’ unless you don’t know how to move as a forward. He does not move when the ball is ‘coming down the field’ and only tends to move when he is the next in line to get it - this gives his opponent a free ride to watch the ball and not worry about what our CHF is doing to attract the footy and define and exploit space and make him think twice.

This is something that would be talked through in his first year and he hasn’t got better.

Bring in that former forward to be a specialist if you want but I see it as a waste of money until JVR can show aptitude for basic forward craft.

You're saying he's not doing what he should as a forward. I agree. You're saying he doesn't have the attributes to do so. I disagree. This is where coaching comes in.

23 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Just to confirm. JVR was omitted (dropped) from the team for round 7, recalled for round 9, then now omitted for our round 10 game. Hardly given a chance to regain form in any format. Really hope we get him back in form and back in the team as a key forward is crucial to any future.

He was bought back in because we lost Petty and Melksham. It wasn't ideal and that was discussed by Goodwin in his presser.

4 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Just to confirm. JVR was omitted (dropped) from the team for round 7, recalled for round 9, then now omitted for our round 10 game. Hardly given a chance to regain form in any format. Really hope we get him back in form and back in the team as a key forward is crucial to any future.

I'm still holding a lot of hope for and in young Jvr.

Thought this was his breakout season. Well I thought that last year too.

Really thought he could be our Curnow.

Big call, I know, but early on he showed so much intent and courage and was a beautiful set shot. I believe he still shows constant effort though.

He's completely down in confidence these days. Something's happened with his marking. Just doesn't seem to hold them.

He's a strong lad and despite his ruck prowess for his height ( I mean he's not super tall but has a decent leap), he doesn't seem to be able to take pack marks. Has been more successful on the lead. Better suited to CHF.

So, I'm hoping he comes good again. He's probably just not going to be the star many of us thought.

We really need someone with strength through their entire core and with more mass up forward that can take the pack marks. Tmac used to be very good at it and probably our most recent one like this. At present one of the closest alternatives is probably Turner. Which is actually saying a lot.

I really would like to see if May could play fwd for us. At present, he too seems to be down in form . But if Lever was not injured , Id have argued we haven't got much to lose giving it a trial.

I mean we gave Petty months in the job despite often failing. He was often jockeyed out of position and wasn't really a strong pack mark.

But Goody hasn't seen any reason to try it, even with a plethora of decent backs to play. Maybe I'm way off the mark here so to speak but I do wonder if May, may be worth a go.

Am I alone on this? Besides Disco , who else is there. I really think Goody mucked up v the Hawks. I was dirty on him because Melksham was out. Viney who can snap a couple was out. Jeffo is very inexperienced. And Roo and Friita have been totally off the boil. And Petty was concussed, I think.

So Simon says, Fritta, Jeffo and Roo will amass a decent score for us. Turned out with no Turner fwd in the first three quarters up forward those three kicked no goals. In fact none for the whole game. Really. Who didn't see that coming( well maybe not no goals but not enough)?

I'm an armchair expert but knew enough that those three weren't enough. Yet despite their zero goals from all three, l 1/1we almost one.

And yea Turner was great defending taking around nine marks there before being moved. It was way too little, too late. Things like this prompt me to think the club should part ways now ( if not sooner) with our coach in a respectful and as much as possible, amicable way. It will soon come time when our first premiership coach for half a century is pushed out in an inglorious fashion.

But to some extent, it's probably of his own making of late. I know I'm going off topic here. SG will always have a special and fond place in the history of our club but it's not going to be good for Goody to go out from media pressure and the club reeling in such a large fall from grace.

But back to Jvr. Perhaps just play him back with May forward for a few games . I do think it's been challenging for him trying to play fwd while being dragged into ruck duties but that's not enough to explain his current downturn.

He's demonstrated some great skill, enthusiasm and intent prior so I'm not throwing in the towel. I really hope he thrives again. Seems like a really decent bloke too.

Maybe after a few suspended games, he's toned down his agro which may have contributed. I've seen him get really down on himself when he makes a mistake. There's so much pressure on them it's hard for players to enjoy just playing the game.

Hopefully he can find that along with some confidence. Maybe a good stint in defence with the occasional cameo fwd would do him the world of good instead of the Magoos.

5 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Just to confirm. JVR was omitted (dropped) from the team for round 7, recalled for round 9,

Injuries to Petty and Jefferson forced that recall.

Though hard to see that in the context of

5 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Hardly given a chance to regain form in any format

Playing an AFL match isn't giving him a chance to regain form?

6 hours ago, rpfc said:

Or he might just not be that talented.

Considering I could give him advice about leading patterns and utilising space and attracting the footy from when I have seen him up close - the current coaches would be fine to talk him through the tape. It’s straightforward ‘forward craft’ that he has not shown much aptitude for…

And we are looking shallower with entries, we are doing better than we have in years with how we look inside the 50. He has to hold up the other end of that bargain - otherwise the mids will fall into bad habits if the options aren’t there.

You grant far too much kudos to our coaching. Our forward craft is in a word, pathetic . In so far as being useful at AFL level our forward structure and training ( might as well throw in selection ) is immature.

There's NO ONE there capable of instructing JVR or any really in anything useful.

He's getting "Melbourned" .... royally

Not so much a comment on JVR, more a general observation.

Are some of the players being overcoached?

Are we coaching the instinct out of them to the detriment of the team performance?

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We don't have a proper forwards coach and haven't for I don't know how long.

Yes we do, and our previous forwards coach was there when we won a premiership, which makes your point somewhat moot.

Collingwood's forward coach is an ex mid-fielder. The Lions won the flag last year with someone who had never played AFL and had been their backline coach for 10 years. Adelaide's forward coach is an ex-defender as is the Bulldog's, Hawthorn's a "utility" who spent most of his coaching career coaching backs etc. etc. Across the AFL, forward coaches who spent their playing careers as forwards are the exception rather than the rule.

This assumption re forward coaches comes from a misunderstanding of what coaches and assistant coachs actually do and the skillsets required.

jvr has shown no desire to put in second efforts in the afl and, based on the half i saw today, the vfl

where he's able to get separation from his oppo - which is easier against lesser players in th vfl - he tries to mark the ball one-handed

i can count on one hand the number of times i've seen him offer a hook lead as a forward this year; instead he just wants to get out the back

i don't know what chaplin is coaching him to do, but at the moment it's an abject failure

I am in the ‘maybe he wasn’t that good all along’ camp. Sam Weideman showed glimpses too on the odd occasion. JVR has not been able to hold a mark since 2023. I didn’t play football at any significant level but like riding a bicycle, does a good player actually ‘forget’ how to mark the ball? It is clear his positioning is all wrong and the defenders know how to work him under the ball in pack situations. But JVR even drops chest marks when he is not under pressure. He is also slow and cannot change directions fast enough to impact when the ball hits the ground. Often he is lost in no-person’s-land.

And from today’s VFL performance, not a lot changed. He often looked ‘lost’.

So the question is whether a lack of confidence leads to a total abandonment of key forward skills? I doubt it given this pattern has been around for all this season and most of last.

I just don’t think he is the solution.

I wouldn’t be trading him as some on other threads have suggested. We know he can play, yes he’s currently in a slump but hopefully a new coach at seasons end can bring out his best.

Whose to say that player's confidence hasn't been ruined by poor umpiring.

Not paying marks, interference etc.

It's a bit cruel, but I have to chuckle thinking back to one of the Deebrief podcasters calling him "Frying Pan Hands"

Edited 16 hours ago16 hr by John Demonic

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

Yes we do, and our previous forwards coach was there when we won a premiership, which makes your point somewhat moot.

Collingwood's forward coach is an ex mid-fielder. The Lions won the flag last year with someone who had never played AFL and had been their backline coach for 10 years. Adelaide's forward coach is an ex-defender as is the Bulldog's, Hawthorn's a "utility" who spent most of his coaching career coaching backs etc. etc. Across the AFL, forward coaches who spent their playing careers as forwards are the exception rather than the rule.

This assumption re forward coaches comes from a misunderstanding of what coaches and assistant coachs actually do and the skillsets required.

If thats your argument (which I don't agree with) then our forward coach is not very good because our forward line has been abominable for years. Even in our premiership year our forward line wasn't great, it was our midfield and defence which won us the flag. Even late in the season there were still question marks about our forward line, whether we would play Brown and McDonald etc

We demolished the Cats and Dogs in the finals but again mostly off the back of midfield efficiency (and Fritsch going off in the GF).

JVR needs someone to do one on one coaching with him to teach him the technical aspects of playing key forward. He has raw talent but it isn't being developed (he's not alone either).

Edited 16 hours ago16 hr by Dr. Gonzo

1 hour ago, Willmoy1947 said:

Whose to say that player's confidence hasn't been ruined by poor umpiring.

Not paying marks, interference etc.

Yes 100% agree.

It’s purely on the umpires that JVR has gone backwards at a million knots an hour this year.