Welcome to Demonland: Jacob Van Rooyen

[rjay 24,852]

On 7/5/2022 at 4:41 PM, Whispering_Jack said:

I'm sure that this question has been asked before - what is JVR's height?

He's been variously referred to as being 193, 194 and 195cm tall (see https://www.afl.com.au/news/598548/towering-forward-jacob-van-rooyen-ready-to-show-his-wares-in-academy-hitout which puts him at 195cm). 

There was a time when club's updated their information - I think Garry Lyon grew to 193cm but started well below that height when he came to the club as a teenager in the Under 19s. Mitch Lewis of Hawthorn is another who has grown considerably since his drafting.

It would be handy for the purposes of this discussion if we received accurate information about players' heights.

 

Hard to tell on the TV (Computer) but didn't seem to be giving any height away to Weid when they were standing together.

He would be certainly over the 193cm quoted when drafted now.

195 - 196 would be my guess, and he's no skinny kid.

[4_Kent_Watts 869]

How about we drop a forward that ain't getting the ball at all, regardless of size.  There's a few to pick from. 

[Return to Glory 8,411]

17 minutes ago, 4_Kent_Watts said:

How about we drop a forward that ain't getting the ball at all, regardless of size.  There's a few to pick from. 

We do need to give him a crack imo

[Macca 16,904]

We need another tall marking option up forward so it's either Weideman again or we give Jacob an opportunity.  And maybe Gawn in a more permanent role up forward

But if we view the other marking options up forward more in terms of structure for team purposes, then needing that type of player to stand out and excel is not necessarily needed

What we need is for Ben Brown not to be double teamed or triple teamed (constantly) when we target him ... the other teams are doing that (double teaming) because they know we don't have too many other options (if any)

So keep Ben quiet and they keep our forward line quiet.  We need to change things up and keep the opposition guessing. 

Another tall option is imperative and if we can't get multiple goals out of 4 small forwards, then that's having 1 (or 2) small forwards in the team too many

 

F       Spargo       Ben Brown    Van Rooyen

HF     Kozzie           Gawn               Fritsch

 

Weideman could play instead of Van Rooyen if the MC believe that Jacob isn't ready.  Either way, the 3 tall marking options could rotate (FP, FF & CHF)

Neal-Bullen to rotate with the 2 other smalls

Jackson to do 60%-70% of the ruck work around the ground (but not in the forward line - that area Max can cover) Our midfielders are good enough to win the ball (and be creative) even if we don't dominate the hit-outs

So I've got an extra tall forward in the team as well as Max forward as well

September is just around the corner and in the finals, the ball is often booted quickly forward from a stoppage to a one on one.  You've got have to marking options within that scenario.  Our forwards have to play in front too

Edited July 9, 2022 by Macca

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

6 hours ago, Macca said:

Our forwards have to play in front too

Hallelujah to that Macca.

Especially BB.

And he isn't alone, with many of our forwards failing to understand this necessity when the opp is bringing high intensity tackling/pressure at particular moments within games.  Ball is often going to fall shallow.  Sometimes that pressure will drop and you can then look to double back or sit in the hole etc.  Surely BB has this one down pretty well by now?

The number of times i see defenders reading this situation better and sitting in front of one of our forwards for the easy chest mark and slingshot rebound is infuriating.   Extra infuriating as we never seem to correct this basic error.

Also... How often do other teams hit up their small forwards either sitting in space and/or on a lead?  I wouldn't say the numbers would be high here (especially against us as our D is pretty decent) for any team but i would guess we would be sitting pretty low on the tables if we could access the data and do a comparison.

When you watch our forward methods/craft/smarts at Casey we more often than not look like a team of pros that knows how to find space, hit up leading targets and clever use at ground level getting the ball in to the hands of a player in a better position to score for the conversion.   There's often just more space for our forwards to work in as well.

The rot at senior level starts & stops with Stafford IMV. 

[DeeZee 7,361]

We just can’t seem to take a contested mark in our forward line to save ourselves. We might have to roll the dice on JVR.

Cant do much worse than others we’ve tried.

[Jaded No More 68,855]

Bowey debuted about the same time last year with only so so form in the VFL. 
I understand they play a very different role and that it’s much easier for a small half back to integrate into a side versus a tall KPF. But I am truly starting to warm to the idea of giving JVR a taste against Port. 
Our forwardline is not great at the moment and while I don’t expect him to be a quick fix, nor do I think the losses this year have come due to the forwards (all loses were due to poor contested work, losing the midfield battle and injuries), I think he could give us a different look. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

A few JVR highlights against the Cats...

https://fb.watch/e9Nx3nir_O/

Edited July 9, 2022 by Demon Dynasty

[Macca 16,904]

5 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

The number of times i see defenders reading this situation better and sitting in front of one of our forwards for the easy chest mark and slingshot rebound is infuriating

Make no mistake, the opposition have done their homework on us and they can smell blood.  Our forward line has been crowded by the opposition all year for good reason (in terms of that crowded forward line helping the opposition)

So we need to counter

We could debut Van Rooyen but I'd prefer to see that happen with him being the 3rd tall (not the 2nd tall) Or, if we give Weideman another shot, the same (3rd tall)

I've got Ben Brown & Gawn as the 1 & 2.  But with all 3 rotating with all 3 having stints at FP, FF & CHF

This season, Ben has often worked to the front position only to see an opposition backman cut across in front of him as the ball arrives.  That was happening last year as well.  They know Ben is the key to our forward line functioning well

We've tried replacing T-Mac with Weideman or Mitch Brown but neither player can play that role

But Max can so we either do that or we can expect more of the same in terms of dysfunction.  Our smalls are highly dependant on our bigs performing

Fix the the main issue and the rest can work as a flow-on effect

We need to get the structure right and give the opposition something to think about

Playing Max forward (predominantly) also means we need Jackson to take the no.1 mantle in the ruck ... and he played that role against the Lions with aplomb.  A small sample size but he's capable of playing the role looking ahead (at least in the short term)

Edited July 10, 2022 by Macca

[SPC 3,532]

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Make no mistake, the opposition have done their homework on us and they can smell blood.  Our forward line has been crowded by the opposition all year for good reason (in terms of that crowded forward line helping the opposition)

So we need to counter

We could debut Van Rooyen but I'd prefer to see that happen with him being the 3rd tall (not the 2nd tall) Or, if we give Weideman another shot, the same (3rd tall)

I've got Ben Brown & Gawn as the 1 & 2.  But with all 3 rotating with all 3 having stints at FP, FF & CHF

This season, Ben has often worked to the front position only to see an opposition backman cut across in front of him as the ball arrives.  That was happening last year as well.  They know Ben is the key to our forward line functioning well

We've tried replacing T-Mac with Weideman or Mitch Brown but neither player can play that role

But Max can so we either do that or we can expect more of the same in terms of dysfunction.  Our smalls are highly dependant on our bigs performing

Fix the the main issue and the rest can work as a flow-on effect

We need to get the structure right and give the opposition something to think about

Playing Max forward (predominantly) also means we need Jackson to take the no.1 mantle in the ruck ... and he played that role against the Lions with aplomb.  A small sample size but he's capable of playing the role looking ahead (short term)

Agree that opponents are flooding our forwardline. We bring the ball from D50, slow and predictably around the boundary. If we move the ball fast, changing the angles and using the corridor- we give our forwards a chance. If we don’t change our style of play, personal wont matter.

[Sideshow Bob 2,341]

GET. HIM. IN.

 

I called for it before the Norf game...  my thoughts still havent changed.

 

Good to fi ally see others on the bandwagon

[Macca 16,904]

Just now, SPC said:

Agree that opponents are flooding our forwardline. We bring the ball from D50, slow and predictably around the boundary. If we move the ball fast, changing the angles and using the corridor- we give our forwards a chance. If we don’t change our style of play, personal wont matter.

That's a good point

We look great when we win the clearance from a centre square bounce down ... 666 is in operation so our forward line is full of 1 on 1's and/or there is space in the forward line (think PF & GF last year)

But you are right when it comes to other times of the game ... I made mention of our boundary line play and slow movement of the ball (too much handballing) in the post game thread against the Cats

But the conditions were slippery and we didn't have a workable structure up forward anyway

With Van Rooyen, it's early doors but I don't see a player with a manic desire to play in front. He's ok (but not great) with that vital component required by a KPF That might come later but he's worth a shot anyway (either him or Weideman with Gawn playing the no.2 role)

[Macca 16,904]

Could be a day for the tall forwards at Alice Springs next Sunday afternoon as well ... 22° predicted (and dry conditions)

If we play Van Rooyen do we throw him in as the no.2 or in an easier role as the no.3? As it stands, Max plays forward a fair bit when it suits anyway

I also believe we need to get Fritsch up into the play more as well.  Play him on the HFF rather than predominantly as a FP

[Redleg 40,815]

37 minutes ago, SPC said:

Agree that opponents are flooding our forwardline. We bring the ball from D50, slow and predictably around the boundary. If we move the ball fast, changing the angles and using the corridor- we give our forwards a chance. If we don’t change our style of play, personal wont matter.

That won't happen with the current one style kick out to a pack.

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

I am keen to see van rooyen in action at AFL level. I have mentioned in another thread that I think having a contested marking beast in the forward 50 might net us another couple of goals per game. I just don’t think this is our real problem right now.

 If we can’t win contest and at least break even on clearance it really doesn’t matter how awesome our forward line is. This is why defence and contest first wins finals. Our method broke down at the cattery and that is why we lost.

i absolutely want to get a good look at van rooyen, but he is not going to fix our current problem

[loges 6,767]

My take is we might as well blood JVR and see what he's got instead of giving Weid yet another chance and the probability he has another quiet game.

[DeeZone 9,638]

Yes Redlegs we need to change it up a bit need to be a bit more unpredictable utilise Salem and Bowey more.with their kicking skills hit up a target switch it around make the opp run and chase. Ha ha Do don’t think Do.😳😳

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,477]

I’m more inclined to not include him in the team and would prefer to see him play out the year in the VFL.  If we were winning every week, I don’t think there’d be so many demanding his inclusion - so he’s being brought in to try to address a shortcoming in our more senior players.  This puts massive pressure on him, especially with a fickle media and fans.

I’d be very interested to see what he’s got, but that’s more my impatience rather than believing he’ll make a tangible difference against Port.

Play him when he’s 100% smashing the door down.  Still looks 5kg under weight imho. 
 

[demon3165 2,711]

4 hours ago, DeeZee said:

We just can’t seem to take a contested mark in our forward line to save ourselves. We might have to roll the dice on JVR.

Cant do much worse than others we’ve tried.

How about we just open up the forward line..

[mo64 5,853]

1 hour ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I’m more inclined to not include him in the team and would prefer to see him play out the year in the VFL.  If we were winning every week, I don’t think there’d be so many demanding his inclusion - so he’s being brought in to try to address a shortcoming in our more senior players.  This puts massive pressure on him, especially with a fickle media and fans.

I’d be very interested to see what he’s got, but that’s more my impatience rather than believing he’ll make a tangible difference against Port.

Play him when he’s 100% smashing the door down.  Still looks 5kg under weight imho. 
 

We would be bringing him in due to the shortcomings of our forward line structure. We have an additional small there because neither Weid or M Brown could fill T Mac's role. If we go back to our most successful structure, then JVR is our only option.

And I don't see him being under any additional pressure to perform. Nowhere have I seen or heard JVR as being the messiah. 

As for his weight, of course he'll get stronger with time, but doesn't stop him from making an impact now. He played senior WAFL games last year.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,679]

1 hour ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I’m more inclined to not include him in the team and would prefer to see him play out the year in the VFL.  If we were winning every week, I don’t think there’d be so many demanding his inclusion - so he’s being brought in to try to address a shortcoming in our more senior players.  This puts massive pressure on him, especially with a fickle media and fans.

I’d be very interested to see what he’s got, but that’s more my impatience rather than believing he’ll make a tangible difference against Port.

Play him when he’s 100% smashing the door down.  Still looks 5kg under weight imho. 
 

Get another pre season under his belt before unleashing him, unless he is kicking the door down for a game.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, SPC said:

Agree that opponents are flooding our forwardline. We bring the ball from D50, slow and predictably around the boundary. If we move the ball fast, changing the angles and using the corridor- we give our forwards a chance. If we don’t change our style of play, personal wont matter.

I agree with that also.  The slow predictable play around thr boundary and most often delivering to a pocket is now well covered by most oppos.  They have our measure as long as we keep doing the same.

[Roost it far 8,173]

4 hours ago, Macca said:

Make no mistake, the opposition have done their homework on us and they can smell blood.  Our forward line has been crowded by the opposition all year for good reason (in terms of that crowded forward line helping the opposition)

So we need to counter

We could debut Van Rooyen but I'd prefer to see that happen with him being the 3rd tall (not the 2nd tall) Or, if we give Weideman another shot, the same (3rd tall)

I've got Ben Brown & Gawn as the 1 & 2.  But with all 3 rotating with all 3 having stints at FP, FF & CHF

This season, Ben has often worked to the front position only to see an opposition backman cut across in front of him as the ball arrives.  That was happening last year as well.  They know Ben is the key to our forward line functioning well

We've tried replacing T-Mac with Weideman or Mitch Brown but neither player can play that role

But Max can so we either do that or we can expect more of the same in terms of dysfunction.  Our smalls are highly dependant on our bigs performing

Fix the the main issue and the rest can work as a flow-on effect

We need to get the structure right and give the opposition something to think about

Playing Max forward (predominantly) also means we need Jackson to take the no.1 mantle in the ruck ... and he played that role against the Lions with aplomb.  A small sample size but he's capable of playing the role looking ahead (at least in the short term)

The opposition smell blood…..calm the farm…….we flatlined mid season as we did last year and bounced back by belting the Lions. The Cats won’t beat us at the G, just at their half size arena. I’ve not seen JVR play but I’d be more than happy for the club to roll him out against Port if he’s ready. We’re still going to be very very very hard to beat come September. 

[Macca 16,904]

19 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

 I’ve not seen JVR play but I’d be more than happy for the club to roll him out against Port if he’s ready

Yes, we'll be there when the whips are cracking but we have lost 4 from our last 6

The opposition know full well how good our defence is so by crowding our forward line and disabling our potency up forward, that can effect our all over defence.  Retaining the ball inside the forward line is problematical as well

And Brown has been double teamed or triple teamed all season.  We covered for him for a time but with T-Mac going down, we've now got some issues up forward

Play Gawn forward and bring in Van Rooyen or Weideman as the 3rd marking option (Fritsch can play the John Northey role on the flank)

Edited July 10, 2022 by Macca

[dazzledavey36 54,220]

19 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

The opposition smell blood…..calm the farm…….we flatlined mid season as we did last year and bounced back by belting the Lions. The Cats won’t beat us at the G, just at their half size arena. I’ve not seen JVR play but I’d be more than happy for the club to roll him out against Port if he’s ready. We’re still going to be very very very hard to beat come September. 

Why?