Saturday Morning on Demonland (2)

[Whispering_Jack 30,171]

I’m “stealing” my theme for today from the Mongrel Punt article entitled "Where the Dees get even better in 2022" although I actually came across the idea earlier and from a slightly different perspective.

There used to be a saying that the “premiership glow” doesn’t last forever i.e at some stage after a team tastes the ultimate in success, the celebration of the victory comes to an end, at which point it’s time to start thinking of what comes next. You’ve reached the crossroads.

The question becomes one of coming down from the high of a premiership with the same hunger that you had in the past, to ensure thad you don’t develop a lot of swollen heads and end up going backwards? 

And how can you get even better? 

[Elwood 3184 1,308]

Just take the example of Christian Petracca who isn’t resting on his laurels and training himself to get better. That demonstrates his attitude to improvement. The younger set need to respond and do likewise. 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

"Tigers got 3 in 4 years. Hawks got 3 in 3. Cats got 3 in 5. Do you reckon you boys are as good as them, or are you only good for 1 and done? Who's the best team this century? Show me!!"

[picket fence 17,170]

We are in BETTER shape than all these teams for 3 reasons

1 Age of list

2 Amount of football development left

3 Serious depth

Now if the Desire is there and Goody and co can keep group focused (no big heads)

Then stand by for DYNASTY TO END ALL DYNASTIES

[Fritta and Turner 4,421]

Well I would be looking for growth in the current team so Bowey, Petty, Sparrow, Jackson and Kozzie hopefully can get even better.

But where is our next debutante?  Hard to show your wares without the VFL.

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 5,132]

Particularly given how universal, constant and strong was the players' narrative of connection with, and importance of, us and 'home', I think an MCG premiership is a pretty good carrot, for #2 anyway.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Timothy Reddan-A'Blew
Sorry, #14!!!

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

When you put together a season like this one the following year can really only go one of two ways. Either the hunger is there for sustained effort or that was it and we drink our own bathwater and live off the ‘21 cup sinking slowly into mediocrity. 

We’d all be disappointed with the latter but you can’t ever take away this achievement. Based on what I’ve seen and heard, I think it will be the latter, and if they bring the dedication, intensity and focus that they brought this year, I can’t think of who could stop us.

 There is growth and improvement to be had all over the ground. As HB pointed out BB will only get better with another preseason and a midfield that is looking for him and knows his leading patterns. Fritsch has put his kicking yips behind him and looks like everything Gunston was in his hay day and then some. Just remember Pickett has only had 2 seasons and is nowhere near his peak.

Sparrow and JJ and Jackson have barely gotten started, our midfield has significant upside over and above the awesome talent we already know so well.

 Our backline, holy sheet! Just think about the fact that Rivers was only in his second season and Bowey just his 6th game. Can you believe it?! Add to that Petty, who really just played his first full season. I can’t see Salem, may or lever dropping off anytime soon either.

 So there is significant organic improvement to be had all over the ground. It really only depends on what attitude they bring with a premiership cup in the cupboard already. I think we’ll have the answer quite early in the season, I can’t wait to be there for it.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,241]

As posters above have alluded , we have all the physical attributes needed to win another flag.

It's what is going on in the head and the heart that will be most crucial.

[Spirit of the Demon 251]

Take nothing for granted!

Looking at some recent post premiership disappointments, there was Hawthorn who surprised Geelong in 2008 to take the flag with a young side. Everyone raved about how good they were going to be but they crashed in 2009 and finished ninth with 9 wins 13 losses and a percentage of 92.5. The Bulldogs crashed their way through the 2016 finals and started 2017 well enough before messing up the second half of their season and finishing 10th with 11½ wins 10½ losses and a percentage of 97.1. Before that the 1993 Baby Bombers crashed to 10th in 1994 after everyone predicted a long dynasty ahead of them.

They all struggled after breaking through to win flags with youthful teams that were expected to kick on. I think in every case, they celebrated too long and too hard and took it for granted that they would do it again the next year but lost their hunger.

[Lucifers Hero 39,819]

Signs that players/staff won't have 'swollen heads':

• Petracca taking off his NSM.
• Brayshaw admitting he would love to be in the middle but sacrificed that with an exemplary attitude and took on the wing role. 
• Viney, sacrificing the more attacking side of his inside mid role to allow Oliver and Petracca to do the more fancy stuff.  Viney is not sufficiently lauded for that level of selflessness.
• Gawn on how badly they want to win a premiership in front of their Home fans:  Us!
• Younger players set with the above role models will quickly be brought into line if they get too cocky.
• Enough depth in all positions that no player can afford to think they are a walk up starting 22.
• For staff:  the opportunities that come from being part of a successful club.

GF are incredibly hard to win.  If we don't win next year it won't be poor attitude or being satisfied with one premiership.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Premiers

[The Great Pretender 463]

7 minutes ago, Premiers said:

Signs that players/staff won't have 'swollen heads':

• Petracca taking off his NSM.
• Brayshaw admitting he would love to be in the middle but sacrificed that with an exemplary attitude and took on the wing role. 
• Viney, sacrificing the more attacking side of his inside mid role to allow Oliver and Petracca to do the more fancy stuff.  Viney is not sufficiently lauded for that level of selflessness.
• Gawn on how badly they want to win a premiership in front of their Home fans:  Us!
• Younger players set the above role models will quickly be brought into line if they get too cocky.
• Enough depth in all positions that no player can afford to think they are a walk up starting 22.
• For staff:  the opportunities that come from being part of a successful club.

GF are incredibly hard to win.  If we don't win next year it won't be poor attitude or being satisfied with one premiership.

You can add another dot point in terms of the way the club has gone after a first round draft pick and signed Luke Dunstan. You have to keep improving on your list both internally and externally. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,819]

Dees getting even better?

Based on the finals we are frighteningly good.  No team got close (poor goal efficiency stopped the Brisbane final being a scoreboard blow out like the others).

Other clubs have a lot of work to do just to catch up to the 2021 Premiers:  Us! 🏆 .  Our team is so young there is heaps of improvement there.  Our leaders are young and will steer the good ship for some years.  

Even if other teams bridge the gap to us in 2021; a mighty feat given the non-event trade period, any improvement by us means the gap can only get bigger!

Edited October 16, 2021 by Premiers

[old dee 23,792]

43 minutes ago, Premiers said:

Dees getting even better?

Based on the finals we are frighteningly good.  No team got close (poor goal efficiency stopped the Brisbane final being a scoreboard blow out like the others).

Other clubs have a lot of work to do just to catch up to the 2021 Premiers:  Us! 🏆 .  Our team is so young there is heaps of improvement there.  Our leaders are young and will steer the good ship for some years.  

Even if other teams bridge the gap to us in 2021; a mighty feat given the non-event trade period, any improvement by us means the can only get bigger!

Still strange to read the words" 2021 Premiers: Us".

[Whispering_Jack 30,171]

45 minutes ago, The Great Pretender said:

You can add another dot point in terms of the way the club has gone after a first round draft pick and signed Luke Dunstan. You have to keep improving on your list both internally and externally. 

I agree entirely with this and recruiting well, developing and retaining your playing lists is exactly the antidote to what was commonly referred to as “Norm Smith’s Curse”.  The real curse for Melbourne was that although we were industrious in building up our list during the first part of the golden era of the 50s/60s, we grew fat and old and failed to work hard enough at recruiting in the early 60s. When the veterans grew old and started to get injured more often and/or retired, their replacements weren’t good enough and we went downhill.

We’re at a different stage to all that but recruiting and player development should never lose their importance. It’s interesting that we have threads at the moment on Demonland discussing aspects of the decline of Hawthorn and problems at Geelong. I read today that it’s former Geelong and North Melbourne champion goalkicker Doug Wade’s 80th birthday. Before he started his career at the Cats in 1961, Wade did a preseason at Melbourne under Norm Smith and was sent home. This happened to a few others who we didn’t think would make it. Kevin Sheedy was in our metropolitan zone but we cut him loose. Our dynasty could have lasted a lot longer but we dropped the ball and, as a poster said above, we took things for granted.

[xarronn 380]

27 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I agree entirely with this and recruiting well, developing and retaining your playing lists is exactly the antidote to what was commonly referred to as “Norm Smith’s Curse”.  The real curse for Melbourne was that although we were industrious in building up our list during the first part of the golden era of the 50s/60s, we grew fat and old and failed to work hard enough at recruiting in the early 60s. When the veterans grew old and started to get injured more often and/or retired, their replacements weren’t good enough and we went downhill.

We’re at a different stage to all that but recruiting and player development should never lose their importance. It’s interesting that we have threads at the moment on Demonland discussing aspects of the decline of Hawthorn and problems at Geelong. I read today that it’s former Geelong and North Melbourne champion goalkicker Doug Wade’s 80th birthday. Before he started his career at the Cats in 1961, Wade did a preseason at Melbourne under Norm Smith and was sent home. This happened to a few others who we didn’t think would make it. Kevin Sheedy was in our metropolitan zone but we cut him loose. Our dynasty could have lasted a lot longer but we dropped the ball and, as a poster said above, we took things for granted.

 

Whispering, I believe there was another very important factor which may have been the most significant in our decline and malaise after the 64 flag.

The VFL brought in country zones. These were supposed to rotate between clubs. In fact that never happened and my understanding is that Melbourne's zone was relatively unproductive. This was an incredibly unfair for the Dee's  and caused the heartbreak for supporters until the late 90's.  I have understood this for a long time and in writing this post I looked up on google and Wikipedia seems to confirm it.

"The VFL’s response was to zone rural Victoria and the Riverina of New South Wales in a similar manner to metropolitan Melbourne. Because of the sparseness of Australia’s rural population, the country zones related not to the player’s address, but rather to the league in which he played. This difference made zone boundaries effectively impossible to adjust, and was a critical component of the failure of country zoning. The VFL was aware that discrepancies existed in the strength of each zone, and it was originally planned that the zones would be rotated every year so that each club would obtain a chance of receiving the best young country players.

However, Carlton and Hawthorn lodged complaints with the VFL, as they had productive zones and were naturally unwilling to give them up for less productive ones,^[1] so the zones remained the same from the inception of country zoning until it was abolished in 1986. There was also no provision for demographic changes which occurred in the various country zones, which exacerbated the problems mentioned above".

Unsurprisingly,  Hawthorn and Carlton were the two most successful clubs from the late 60's until the early 90's. Eight flags to Hawks and 7 to the Blues.

 

 

 

[DeeZone 9,847]

That was a good read and yes we can get much better just by improving our kicking accuracy. As Luke Hodge pointed out we were the most inaccurate side in the league leading into the finals, continue to improve that forward delivery and we are going to be hard to stop. I am a firm believer that Belief is one of the strongest components of a winning team / culture and once you aquire it you will not relinquish it whilst you can still draw breath. On top of that we have the best list that I have experienced since the Red Fox years. I am very bullish about 2022 and beyond.💕❤️💙

[D4Life 2,475]

4 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

That was a good read and yes we can get much better just by improving our kicking accuracy. As Luke Hodge pointed out we were the most inaccurate side in the league leading into the finals, continue to improve that forward delivery and we are going to be hard to stop. I am a firm believer that Belief is one of the strongest components of a winning team / culture and once you aquire it you will not relinquish it whilst you can still draw breath. On top of that we have the best list that I have experienced since the Red Fox years. I am very bullish about 2022 and beyond.💕❤️💙

Agree totally on your belief comment. Over & above Premiers very well made comments, we have other great fundamentals:

- proven selfless approach 

- proven winning gameplan

- strong backline just gets stronger the more they play together

- knowledge they can win from almost any position

- the way the forward line clicked in the Prelim & Grand Final means we go into next year with a fully functioning forward line, add to our defensive structure and awesome midfield, will hopefully mean that the Demons will be unbelievably hard to stop next year, a level above this year

- Goodwin mantra about staying in the moment is a great way to stay grounded.

After the outright enjoyment of our finals matches culminating in a fantastic flag, we might even be better next year. Something amazing to look forward to in 2022 and get even more excited.

[Sir Why You Little 37,043]

In the last 50 years Whorethorn have won 12 fags, been Runners up numerous times and played Finals most of those years. 
Set the Bar at a high level MFC, players will want to Play at such a historic and iconic Club. 
This is the time to set a Standard. Be wise. 
Next year we will be studied and hunted, so we have to be better…

Kick Straighter early in a game, kill opponents spirit…

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I’ve said this many times but winning a flag and being the best team aren’t always the same thing.

This year we did both which makes all the more special bit further to this we have the potential to be the best team for the next couple of years.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

I'm hoping we can double up, and there is every reason to believe we can play better in 2022, but I'm wary of the precedents set by the Cats in 2008 and the Tigers in 2018, who were both coming off a flag, and who were both the best sides in the home-and-away season, and who both got ambushed in the finals.

[Tough Kent 2,137]

Someone said after the GF that for a premiership side to get better, they need pressure to come on the 23 who played from those outside the team. Who will create that pressure for us?
 

B: Deakyn Smith, Daniel Turner, Joel Smith

HB: Jayden Hunt, Adam Tomlinson, Marty Hore(?)

C: Fraser Rosman, Kye Declase (?), Osker Baker

HF: Jake Melksham, Mitch Brown, Bailey Laurie

F: Kade Chandler, Sam Weideman, Toby Bedford

Rucks: Majak Daw, Luke Dunstan

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Timothy Reddan-A'Blew said:

Particularly given how universal, constant and strong was the players' narrative of connection with, and importance of, us and 'home', I think an MCG premiership is a pretty good carrot, for #2 anyway.

This totally factors in. In just about every post-match interview, be it Tracc, Maxy, whoever, there’s a reference to the Dees Faithful who missed out on being there to witness the glory. 
I read somewhere a quote from Gary Pert where he says he’s never been involved with, nor knows of, any other team that is so devoted to their supporters. 

[Demonstone 22,558]

1 hour ago, xarronn said:

Unsurprisingly,  Hawthorn and Carlton were the two most successful clubs from the late 60's until the early 90's. Eight flags to Hawks and 7 to the Blues.

 

They were blessed with the fruitful "country" zones of the Mornington Peninsula and Bendigo, respectively.

Melbourne had the Goulburn Valley, which only produced a handful of decent players.

Imagine my dismay as a youngster when my area was allocated to Collingwood!

[faultydet 7,594]

3 hours ago, Spirit of the Demon said:

Take nothing for granted!

Looking at some recent post premiership disappointments, there was Hawthorn who surprised Geelong in 2008 to take the flag with a young side. Everyone raved about how good they were going to be but they crashed in 2009 and finished ninth with 9 wins 13 losses and a percentage of 92.5. The Bulldogs crashed their way through the 2016 finals and started 2017 well enough before messing up the second half of their season and finishing 10th with 11½ wins 10½ losses and a percentage of 97.1. Before that the 1993 Baby Bombers crashed to 10th in 1994 after everyone predicted a long dynasty ahead of them.

They all struggled after breaking through to win flags with youthful teams that were expected to kick on. I think in every case, they celebrated too long and too hard and took it for granted that they would do it again the next year but lost their hunger.

Bulldogs 2016 were the classic over achievers. They got through with a handful of players in career best form and a system of previously unseen and AFL sanctioned cheating (throwing the ball). Ive got much more faith in their current list for sustained success.

And I wouldnt be surprised if we drop a few early next season with our late pre-season start before coming home hard. 

[Diamond_Jim 12,590]

Now up to Round 4 (Geelong at the MCG) in my replay watching. (Generally one quarter each day).

The improvement skill wise from Round 1 is astonishing not to mention seeing Petracca's game grow in front of your eyes. Of course the goalkicking allowed our opponents to stay in many games.

If we can improve that stat across the season by even 25% we could be seriously good.