3 minutes ago, CYB said:

So who has the most to lose if a deal cannot be struck?

1. We have immediate coverage for LJ in Grundy , but we lose picks obviously. Sure we lose a bit of face but have stood firmly.

2. LJ  goes to Norf, best case to WC if Dunkley ends up in the PSD. So he can’t get home or play footy for a year and has a crappy salary. 

3. Freo caught with their pants down, Lobb at the Doggies with no real 2nd ruck option and a bad reputation for future trade scenarios. 
 

Hard call, but I don’t think it’s us. 

If he ends up at North it won’t be on a crappy salary, he nominates his rate and it’s up to the club to facilitate it. It’s how Jack Martin ended up at Carlton. Surely North of all clubs would be able to do it though, and they’d be mad not to. 

37 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

He had a contract with us for 2022.

He honoured it.

That was the right thing for him to do.

As Jimmy said earlier, your posts on the topic are incredibly childish from someone who should know better.

I wouldn’t go so far to say that’s the right thing, it’s a responsible thing to do as he was under contract. However, if he wanted to do right by the club, and he was already feeling that it was a high probability of him heading back to WA, then he would put us in a hugely better position had he pulled the trigger last year. 

FWIW he seems like a pretty good and simple bloke, so I’m not sure he’s got it in him at this stage of life to think that far ahead. So it would’ve been more on those around him to be advising him on what to do, I’m sure his manager would’ve been saying “hold out until you’re out of contract to maximise your return”. Did we as a club put the question strong enough to him regarding whether he wanted to stay with us long term or head home?

For those thinking he might go to North for a year..ask a few questions

1. Where does North suddenly find around $1M of free salary cap in 2023?

2. Assuming you can shuffle around other players would you bother

3. North is rebuilding... why spend $1M on a player who is only going to be there for one year (especially one who wants to be back in WA)?

After reading through a lot of this thread, my opinion for the simplest way to determine a fair trade is that it has to equal at least the pick he would be taken in a 2019 redraft knowing what we know now. 

Anything that doesn’t finish up with a pick in the low single digits is a “lost trade” for us. 

1 minute ago, Domgus Petrogan said:

After reading through a lot of this thread, my opinion for the simplest way to determine a fair trade is that it has to equal at least the pick he would be taken in a 2019 redraft knowing what we know now. 

Anything that doesn’t finish up with a pick in the low single digits is a “lost trade” for us. 

Not happening. 

20 minutes ago, Pates said:

I wouldn’t go so far to say that’s the right thing, it’s a responsible thing to do as he was under contract. However, if he wanted to do right by the club, and he was already feeling that it was a high probability of him heading back to WA, then he would put us in a hugely better position had he pulled the trigger last year. 

FWIW he seems like a pretty good and simple bloke, so I’m not sure he’s got it in him at this stage of life to think that far ahead. So it would’ve been more on those around him to be advising him on what to do, I’m sure his manager would’ve been saying “hold out until you’re out of contract to maximise your return”. Did we as a club put the question strong enough to him regarding whether he wanted to stay with us long term or head home?

Think that far ahead? 

Melbourne had just won a premiership and were strong favourite to win it again this year.  If he went to Freo end last year, imagine the bemusement and potential vitriol from the entire football world. And how exactly would he anticipate that Freo would finish top 6 and be offering perhaps a 2nd rounder less than what is probably fair.  Pinning anything to Jackson here is utterly ridiculous. 

Edited October 7, 20222 yr by Jjrogan

14 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

For those thinking he might go to North for a year..ask a few questions

1. Where does North suddenly find around $1M of free salary cap in 2023?

2. Assuming you can shuffle around other players would you bother

3. North is rebuilding... why spend $1M on a player who is only going to be there for one year (especially one who wants to be back in WA)?

Re-sale value

In theory they could get something like picks 13 & 15 next year (or the year after) all for paying top dollar for a 1 year contract (or 2 years)

And if LJ wanted to earn top dollar after that he'd need to perform for that 1 year (or 2)

But we'll do a deal with Freo anyway

Here's how I see the market

1-3 Freo

5-1 Demons

33-1 West Coast

100-1 North (Pirates of Penzance anyone?)

Edited October 7, 20222 yr by Macca

2 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

Think that far ahead? 

Melbourne had just won a premiership and were strong favourite to win it again this year.  If he went to freo end last year, imagine the bemusent and potential vitriol from the entire football world. And how exactly would he anticipate that Freo would finish top 6 and be offering perhaps a 2nd rounder less than what is probably fair.  Pinning anything to Jackson here is utterly ridiculous. 

yes, and i expect jackson is personally not playing much of a role in the current negotiations. it would all be his manager.

all this, jackson should say this, should do that etc is rubbish. he's just a kid and being managed by others. all he wants to do now is get to freo and everything else around that is someone's else's problem as far as he's concerned

9 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

For those thinking he might go to North for a year..ask a few questions

1. Where does North suddenly find around $1M of free salary cap in 2023?

2. Assuming you can shuffle around other players would you bother

3. North is rebuilding... why spend $1M on a player who is only going to be there for one year (especially one who wants to be back in WA)?

Because they'll net more picks in the following year having to get him to Freo. Its a one-off $1M investment for more picks to bring in more talent or trade for better players. It is a no-brainer for them and they'll have cap space. 

Also whats to say that he'll deman $1M? What if his contract with Freo is back-ended? 

As an aside, surely the AFL should look at compensation picks for clubs loosing players to the PSD. I havent thought about it too deeply and im sure there are opportunities for clubs to exploit this, but for scenario's where a trade cannot be organised, compensation should be awarded to the club loosing the player based on some fair-value calculation. This should at least create a deterrent for clubs not to offer under's and give some bargaining power for clubs that are in our position. 

2 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

yes, and i expect jackson is personally not playing much of a role in the current negotiations. it would all be his manager.

all this, jackson should say this, should do that etc is rubbish. he's just a kid and being managed by others. all he wants to do now is get to freo and everything else around that is someone's else's problem as far as he's concerned

Yep, he can say what he likes but he is just a pawn

We control his destiny as does Freo ... I don't believe the Eagles are a player and the pre-season draft is not really an option unless LJ wants to play for North (or we wipe our hands of him - unlikely)

The other factors are that we need draft picks (at least 2) so as we can participate in the draft (early-ish) ... so we have to do some sort of deal otherwise we'll be scrambling for workable draft picks

And there's the Grundy deal in waiting

 

From what Lamb has said - we are keen on replacing the elite talent we have lost. 

Unlike the last few years, where we have brought forward our high end picks and brought forward our rebuild - we may have to delay for a year and get something at the pointy end next year. Petty having a summer and the first few months forward into 2023 might be a really good way to bridge that gap and allow TMac and Brown to ease into possibly their last year of value and also provide support to JVR. With Gawn there this becomes even more of an option.

Then we reassess and look again for tall forward talent next summer. Probably through trade for a Jon Snow (King in the North!) or possibly a kid from the draft.

2 hours ago, old55 said:

For me, there's been sufficient hints that there are undisclosed personal reasons driving LJ back to WA. 

so why not come clean at the beginning of the season when all this bS started

Lost some respect for LJ and his management

48 minutes ago, CYB said:

So who has the most to lose if a deal cannot be struck?

1. We have immediate coverage for LJ in Grundy , but we lose picks obviously. Sure we lose a bit of face but have stood firmly.

2. LJ  goes to Norf, best case to WC if Dunkley ends up in the PSD. So he can’t get home or play footy for a year and has a crappy salary. 

3. Freo caught with their pants down, Lobb at the Doggies with no real 2nd ruck option and a bad reputation for future trade scenarios. 
 

Hard call, but I don’t think it’s us. 

4. Collingwood. 

If Jackson resigns with us (I doubt he'd go into the psd), the Pies are well and truly stuffed.  They will have to hit any bid on Grundy. 🍿. 

21 minutes ago, Kent said:

so why not come clean at the beginning of the season when all this bS started

Lost some respect for LJ and his management

Some things are private.

1 hour ago, mmwd6 said:

In a way, LJ saying he's open to any WA club puts us at a disadvantage doesn't it?

If he only nominated fremantle then the PSD is not real because he obviously has no desire to go to WC.

By keeping both clubs open he's saying, accept a deal with fremantle, or I'm happy to go to WC, but only in the PSD. 

I know there's all the talk about how he wouldn't do that to the club etc. but when push comes to shove he'll chose his own wellbeing over his ex employer. 

Well the PSD threat would still be there but no-where near as strong as it would be leaving West Coast to hang around I agree. 

22 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

4. Collingwood. 

If Jackson resigns with us (I doubt he'd go into the psd), the Pies are well and truly stuffed.  They will have to hit any bid on Grundy. 🍿. 

Exactly. If we ended up re-signing LJ then we wouldn't want to sign Grundy.

f we were to sign up Grundy and the LJ trade with Freo (or WCE) fell over we'd end up having to give LJ away. 

There is a lot of pain for everyone if a deal doesn't happen. 

11 minutes ago, old55 said:

Some things are private.

Thats fine but he is still carrying unprofessionally with his interactions with the Freo club and non-interest in WC. He hasn't lived up to his end of the bargain from what can be made out on social media.

46 minutes ago, Kent said:

so why not come clean at the beginning of the season when all this bS started

Lost some respect for LJ and his management

To be fair I have very little respect for any of the managers anyway, they play the game to get the best deal for their client, it’s their job. But the way they tend to conduct themselves is very much painting the players as victims in all of this when the truth is they have chosen a highly lucrative career which is country wide. High draft picks represent big investment for clubs, so when they say they want to go it sets that club back more often than not (us getting May is the most recent exception to this I can think of for us). 

So when the managers come out and say, “(player X) has given great service across the two years he’s been at (club Y), he just really wants to be close to his home town and desires a deal be done soon” it sounds incredibly disrespectful to the club who has drafted him, put time into his development, helped him through injuries, and helped him become the player he is. Scott Thompson is the best example of us getting royally boned by putting time into a player, then seeing them go to another club and getting set back in progress. 

Edited October 7, 20222 yr by Pates

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

He had a contract with us for 2022.

He honoured it.

That was the right thing for him to do.

As Jimmy said earlier, your posts on the topic are incredibly childish from someone who should know better.

We are about to lose a player we invested pick 3 in just 3 years ago for basically well below market value.

I have no issue with him going home, I have an issue with him waiting to tell us he wants to go home once he was out of contract. I would have much preferred to trade him while in contract, and I am sure so would the club. We have never said no to any player who wanted to leave for personal reasons, and I doubt it would have been different with Jackson. We are a fair trading team, but sadly the same can't be said for every other club. 

His intentions were obviously made clear to the club months ago, and yet he never had serious discussions with West Coast, which basically forces us to deal with Freo, who know they have nothing to lose by screwing us. 

Nor has he or his management ever come out and said "if a WA club can't compensate Melbourne, Luke will sign on with Melbourne". Even if it's a bluff, it forces Freo's hand to start being more flexible and shows he really does want to repay the club who gave him a RS and a flag and made him into a player worthy of a massive contract at 21 years of age. 

10 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

We are about to lose a player we invested pick 3 in just 3 years ago for basically well below market value.

I have no issue with him going home, I have an issue with him waiting to tell us he wants to go home once he was out of contract. I would have much preferred to trade him while in contract, and I am sure so would the club. We have never said no to any player who wanted to leave for personal reasons, and I doubt it would have been different with Jackson. We are a fair trading team, but sadly the same can't be said for every other club. 

His intentions were obviously made clear to the club months ago, and yet he never had serious discussions with West Coast, which basically forces us to deal with Freo, who know they have nothing to lose by screwing us. 

Nor has he or his management ever come out and said "if a WA club can't compensate Melbourne, Luke will sign on with Melbourne". Even if it's a bluff, it forces Freo's hand to start being more flexible and shows he really does want to repay the club who gave him a RS and a flag and made him into a player worthy of a massive contract at 21 years of age. 

You assume in all this that Jackson had made his mind up prior to last year's trade period that he wanted to go home.

How do you know that? He was barely 20 years old last year's trade period. It's not exactly incredulous to think that he might not have known what he wanted to do at that age.

So long as he hadn't told us he had already made his mind up, we were always going to back ourselves in to convince him to stay. Who knows how likely or unlikely it was 12 months ago that he might have committed to a longer contract.

Also, how do you know he never had discussions with West Coast?

1 hour ago, Kent said:

so why not come clean at the beginning of the season when all this bS started

Lost some respect for LJ and his management

Agree. If genuine personal reasons exist (as appears to be the case) wouldn’t they outweigh which club you are wanting to play for. If the personal reasons are strong enough for him to want to get home what does it matter which club in his home state he plays for? Cake and eat it too. 

9 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

 

Also, how do you know he never had discussions with West Coast?

Because West Coast have literally come out and said they hadn't met him or had discussions with him but are interested in him.

Yet he has already toured the Freo facilities like it is a done deal that he is going there. No wonder Freo think they can just throw us day old breadcrumbs in return.

54 minutes ago, old55 said:

Some things are private.

Its profooty ,nothing is private.If you want to play professional sport thats what you have deal with.Look at all the players who have been caught out in their private lives.You want the big dollars then thats what you have to cop

 

8 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

Why stop there? Heck, if they'd just confirm when Tasmania are going to enter the competition we could all start swapping future first and second round picks with them as well.