Farewell Luke Jackson

[Colm 1,477]

7 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Which will be fine with me. 

Means we have two first rounders going into next year and an almost guaranteed start of second round pick to play with at the 2023 draft which is meant to be a ripper. 

Perhaps our plan is an all out assault at top end picks for next year's draft which I'd be fine with given the talent available. I'd do anything to be in with a shot at Zane Duursma next year. 

If we can land Grundy, Lachie Hunter and pick 13 for this year and we go into next year having two first rounders and an almost guaranteed pick 19/20 (pre slide) we'd be laughing. 

We're still in contention next year and then we have a really powerful hand going into next year's bumper draft. 

I agree that’s Freos first from this year and next along with Norths F2nd will get the deal done and I’ll be happy bough with that. 
I do however expect us to trade the two future first to improve our draft hand this year. Looks like we will only bring Grundy in this trade window and as Lamb said we are in a “win now” phase. Would be better to get quality players out of this draft and get games into them. 
I know next years draft is a stronger draft but we have shown in the past few years we would rather get players in a year earlier. If we can still keep some good picks in the second round of next years draft I’m sure JT will get some good talent out of it. 
Also I think that next years draft being stronger will make it easier to trade into this one. 

[layzie 28,689]

1 minute ago, mmwd6 said:

Because they know anything they get from that deal will go straight to us. And also bc dogs only offered 30 for him so they'd rather keep him another year. 

Just finding it hard to believe they think they can get Jackson without giving up Lobb. They are so different to us in the way they handle things. 

[Dwight Schrute 16,749]

1 minute ago, layzie said:

Just finding it hard to believe they think they can get Jackson without giving up Lobb. They are so different to us in the way they handle things. 

I actually agree with MMW6D, i think they're trying to take this to the last minute so we have to either take that or lose him for nothing, can't see any indication they're negotiating in good faith, or looking to improve the offer. 

[mmwd6 214]

1 minute ago, layzie said:

Just finding it hard to believe they think they can get Jackson without giving up Lobb. They are so different to us in the way they handle things. 

Well I mean if the current offer for Lobb is only pick 30 then how would that help us at all?

Dogs have pick 11 and 30. They're not gonna give 11 for lobb. Don't see how there's anyway freo can get the Lobb deal done until dunkley is done.

[Binmans PA 25,989]

2 hours ago, No10 said:

WC probably right to hold off on any offer.

MFC can eventually call Luke and tell him that Freo aren’t offering his value and he needs to visit WC to at least look around. No player wants to be undervalued by their club.

He goes in, WC take their best shot with their facilities and whatever players impress - tell him they’re offering pick 2.

Luke can still hang out with the Freo guys, go surfing, whatever, but the club that’s showing him proper respect is WC.

That’s how I’d play it anyway

They're definitely putting LJ in a difficult position by pissing everyone off.

Edited October 6, 2022 by A F

[Gawndy the Great 7,317]

4 minutes ago, mmwd6 said:

Well I mean if the current offer for Lobb is only pick 30 then how would that help us at all?

Dogs have pick 11 and 30. They're not gonna give 11 for lobb. Don't see how there's anyway freo can get the Lobb deal done until dunkley is done.

Theyll try and do 21 and F1 for Dunkley from Brisbane. Then give 21 to Freo for Lobb. 

Freo can then package up 13, 19 and F1 (or 21 from Brissy)

Problem with 21 is that holds a lot of points for Brissy to let go as they are chasing Ashcroft and the other fella.

[layzie 28,689]

7 minutes ago, Dwight Schrute said:

I actually agree with MMW6D, i think they're trying to take this to the last minute so we have to either take that or lose him for nothing, can't see any indication they're negotiating in good faith, or looking to improve the offer. 

Yeah it definitely makes sense. I'm just not a fan of their strategy, a player has requested to leave and they are happy to play with his future for the benefit of posturing. 

It's most likely what they are doing but it just doesn't quite sit right. 

[mmwd6 214]

3 minutes ago, CYB said:

Theyll try and do 21 and F1 for Dunkley from Brisbane. Then give 21 to Freo for Lobb. 

Freo can then package up 13, 19 and F1 (or 21 from Brissy)

Problem with 21 is that holds a lot of points for Brissy to let go as they are chasing Ashcroft and the other fella.

Where is the 19 coming from?

They already have 13, F1, and 20ish next year. If they wanted to offer that they already would. Don't think this will be dependent on the Lobb trade at all. 

[Macca 16,173]

5 minutes ago, willmoy said:

That has to be shared amongst all DL by decree

Yes, Willmoy

Happy to share as I'm not a greedy person by nature.  But money is money so I'll need at least $4Billion (to cover expenses)

As for LJ, I still believe we'll do a deal with Freo but we are not going to sell ourselves short

There's always West Coast or he re-signs with us ... or he goes into the pre-season draft

What complicates matters is the Grundy deal going through (when?) and the fact we need at least 2 decent draft picks to participate in the draft (Chandler will be upgraded with a pick in the 60's or 70's)

How do we find 2 decent draft picks numbers if Jackson isn't traded? 

If he ends up re-signing with us for a year or 2 do we want to go through all this again next year? (or the year after)

But again, I reckon there's a fair chance we'll end up taking pick 13, F1 and another half decent pick (for this year) from Freo ... not enough but the clock is ticking

[Dwight Schrute 16,749]

Just now, layzie said:

Yeah it definitely makes sense. I'm just not a fan of their strategy, a player has requested to leave and they are happy to play with his future for the benefit of posturing. 

It's most likely what they are doing but it just doesn't quite sit right. 

especially given what they've done to convince him to leave, inviting his family into the club, promising they'd get a deal done, offering him huge money and now they're risking breaking that promise for the sake of saving some token draft picks, and getting a better deal.

[BangBnagBang 519]

 

33 minutes ago, Redleg said:

We are not worried about the PSD, we are just discussing why the deal will go through eventually.

I now think we will get North F2 as well as 13 and Freo F1 and have to accept it.

and I think that in the end would be Ok however I heard Freo want to use there F2nd for Sharp from GC so have to keep a F2nd due to using there own F1st int he LJ trade so the North F2 isnt going to be included from there end.

If we can get 13 + Freo F1+ Nth F2 could we get Ess or Haw interested in a swap for 4 or 6 by offering up 13, Freo F1 and Melb F2.

Melb end up with 4/6 and Nth F2 (20) for LJ and Melb F2 (35)

I dont think 13 and Freo F1 would be enough to get 4 or 6 . would have to include our F2

[layzie 28,689]

10 minutes ago, mmwd6 said:

Well I mean if the current offer for Lobb is only pick 30 then how would that help us at all?

Dogs have pick 11 and 30. They're not gonna give 11 for lobb. Don't see how there's anyway freo can get the Lobb deal done until dunkley is done.

You're right, it's a rock and a hard place and most likely waiting on Dunkley. I personally don't rate Lobb as a top 20 pick, had a great year but goes missing often too.

Hypothetically if the offer for Lobb is pick 30 they could find a trade with someone pick 13 and 30 for a pick inside the top 10? It would just surprise me if they weren't exploring these scenarios in the background. 

[Gawndy the Great 7,317]

4 minutes ago, mmwd6 said:

Where is the 19 coming from?

They already have 13, F1, and 20ish next year. If they wanted to offer that they already would. Don't think this will be dependent on the Lobb trade at all. 

Perhaps they want to keep something for this year and hence their unwillingness to trade Norfs comp pick to us. 

[tincan 165]

Got a lot of respect for LJ and the way he has gone about this.

Nothing worse than a player who says, 'oh I need to go back home to my home state, but you have to trade me to X club so make it happen'. It's put us in an great position to be able to negotiate with two clubs rather than one. Combined with the fact that he helps us win a premiership he will always be a legend in my eyes.

I hope no one boos him next year...

[layzie 28,689]

7 minutes ago, Dwight Schrute said:

especially given what they've done to convince him to leave, inviting his family into the club, promising they'd get a deal done, offering him huge money and now they're risking breaking that promise for the sake of saving some token draft picks, and getting a better deal.

And then you have Lobb who also wants out and they're happy to go all hardline holding him to his contract and fluff around to right to the death of trade period. It's very cold stuff!

[mmwd6 214]

1 minute ago, layzie said:

You're right, it's a rock and a hard place and most likely waiting on Dunkley. I personally don't rate Lobb as a top 20 pick, had a great year but goes missing often too.

Hypothetically if the offer for Lobb is pick 30 they could find a trade with someone pick 13 and 30 for a pick inside the top 10? It would just surprise me if they weren't exploring these scenarios in the background. 

Lobb is not a top 20 pick at all. But if you're a team with a dog**** forward line and you feel like you can still challenge next year then you're better of keeping him unless you're get a first rounder back. They've got teenagers in Treacy and Amiss as their only other KPFs so Lobb staying lets them develop another year without having to play on the best defender. 

I actually think Lobb would be perfect for us for the next few years. Definitely think we're a better chance with him than Grundy. 

I think there is close to zero chance they accept anything less than a first rounder for him. 

[mmwd6 214]

1 minute ago, tincan said:

Got a lot of respect for LJ and the way he has gone about this.

Nothing worse than a player who says, 'oh I need to go back home to my home state, but you have to trade me to X club so make it happen'. It's put us in an great position to be able to negotiate with two clubs rather than one. Combined with the fact that he helps us win a premiership he will always be a legend in my eyes.

I hope no one boos him next year...

Yeah I don't. It's all for show I reckon.  

If he really was happy to go to west coast we would have offers from them by now. Instead all we have is the WC list manager more or less saying they're still trying (and failing) to convince LJ to join them, hence why no offer has been made. 

[mmwd6 214]

2 minutes ago, layzie said:

And then you have Lobb who also wants out and they're happy to go all hardline holding him to his contract and fluff around to right to the death of trade period. It's very cold stuff!

My favourite is Lloyd Meek. 24 year old who's been on the list for 5 years and has played 15 games and they're not letting him go for anything less than a second rounder. 

[SFebes 4,692]

Just now, mmwd6 said:

My favourite is Lloyd Meek. 24 year old who's been on the list for 5 years and has played 15 games and they're not letting him go for anything less than a second rounder. 

I watched him in the WAFL a couple of weeks ago and he was terrible against smaller opponents.

[Jaded No More 57,781]

13 hours ago, Mickey said:

Honestly, Freo can GAGF. They've been courting Luke for ages, and now just expect us to accept unders. Get stuffed

I despise them. They are the worst club to deal with outside of Essendon. And thank you so much Luke for waiting until you were out of contract to run back to mummy when last year we could have done a fair deal for Cerra. Just trash all around. 

[old55 21,261]

For me, there's been sufficient hints that there are undisclosed personal reasons driving LJ back to WA. 

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

4 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

I despise them. They are the worst club to deal with outside of Essendon. And thank you so much Luke for waiting until you were out of contract to run back to mummy when last year we could have done a fair deal for Cerra. Just trash all around. 

Luke's done nothing but the right thing by the club, (for a player who wants to go home). 

And you've got no idea about what went down last year re Cerra or about Luke's circumstances.

Whinging about Luke in the way you do is borderline childish. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by JimmyGadson

[Pates 9,536]

4 minutes ago, mmwd6 said:

Yeah I don't. It's all for show I reckon.  

If he really was happy to go to west coast we would have offers from them by now. Instead all we have is the WC list manager more or less saying they're still trying (and failing) to convince LJ to join them, hence why no offer has been made. 

It does appear that way unfortunately, he said at the start happy to go to either club but if he were true to that then he would’ve gone through the WC tour and pitch, and heard their offer. He hasn’t done that so he’s basically done it for show. I wonder how his management would react if we said we’re done with dealing with Freo, he’s going to WC. I imagine the tune would very suddenly change. 

He could’ve pulled the trigger last year, instead he’s waited until our bargaining position is significantly weaker. To me he and his management have put on a show of good faith dealing, rather than genuinely doing the right thing. 

[layzie 28,689]

2 minutes ago, mmwd6 said:

Lobb is not a top 20 pick at all. But if you're a team with a dog**** forward line and you feel like you can still challenge next year then you're better of keeping him unless you're get a first rounder back. They've got teenagers in Treacy and Amiss as their only other KPFs so Lobb staying lets them develop another year without having to play on the best defender. 

I actually think Lobb would be perfect for us for the next few years. Definitely think we're a better chance with him than Grundy. 

I think there is close to zero chance they accept anything less than a first rounder for him. 

He can certainly help a team out up forward while not a world beater.

This is how my 'non-list management experience non-Peter Bell genius experience mind' sees it. They could speak to clubs regarding the hypothetical of a pick 13 + 30 swap for a pick inside top 10 and if someone bites then take the 30 for Lobb, send top 10 F1 and F2 to us for Jackson without having to sit around for Dunkley. They may not be happy with 30 for Lobb but the net result is they get their man and don't keep building these jarring relationship with other list managers. This, as I said is just my armchair view of it.

And as you said it comes down to how much they would be happy to part with Lobb as they may indeed want him around another year. But if they were happy to grant him his wish to return to Vic then that's what I would be consdering, doesn't look like it though. 

[Gawndy the Great 7,317]

1 minute ago, JimmyGadson said:

Luke's done nothing but the right thing by the club, (for a player who wants to go home). 

And you've got no idea about what went down last year re Cerra or about Luke's circumstances.

Whinging about Luke in the way you do is borderline childish. 

For the most part i agree. However in the last few weeks he could have:

1) Visited WC facilities and engage in discussions with their list management

2) Stopped hanging out with Freo players

3) Have asked his management to leak discussions with media on his possibility to resign for another 1-2 years with Melbourne if a deal cannot be reached. 

 

His good intent is very shallow and Freo are seeing straight through it for the lack of reasons sighted above. Heck he's probably having dinner at Bells place tonight.