I think it's a given Chandler is on the senior list.  Emergency in the GF.  Two years headlining the 7 re-signings.  All points to him being on the seniour list I think.

35 minutes ago, Premiers said:

I didn't see the 2 years in the announcement.  Did I misread?  

Agreed under the new rules he can do a 4th year on the rookie list.  

For the 'Contracts' thread I usually wait until there is something 'official' so for now I'll stick with Chandler as a Rookie in that thread.  

The reason I was given that it’s definitely senior list was that there are limits on one year contracts and salary for rookies and Chandler signed for two years and needed to be offered senior list money to have him stay. Could be wrong but I’m pretty sure it’s a two year deal for senior list. It’s not in the announcement but it is in the Herald Sun and was on trade radio, also getting it second hand from someone who’s usually right about these things.

1 hour ago, DeeTeez said:

can we also move Hore onto rookie list ? i think we did this with Nietschke in late 2020. 

The problem with this is once you have four A-rookies, rookie A spots 5-6 still prevent you from having main list spots 37-38 so moving him to the rookie list doesn’t necessarily free up a spot. Unless we can Category B rookie him? But I don’t think we can as in my understanding it’s reserved to athletes from other codes.

Thats in addition to the draft issue Premiers raises above. 

Edited October 7, 20213 yr by deejammin'

40 minutes ago, Premiers said:

Thank you.  Are we sure they had it right?

The club was specific on:  "Baker and Bedford have been retained on the senior list, while Brown, Daw, Smith and Turner will remain on the rookie list for 2022"  but was moot on Chandler so for now I'll leave him as a Rookie.  

On my next Contract thread update I'll note the uncertainty on Chandler's status.

 

Fair enough, it's not 100% clear. But yes the fact the Melbourne website specified 1 year for others and that others were staying on the Rookie List, I've jumped to the conclusion of 2 years for Chandler on the senior list.

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Perplexed that Baker was re-signed to be honest and not Lockhart.

Bloke is trending towards Jake Spencer.

I was thinking the same thing

4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Perplexed that Baker was re-signed to be honest and not Lockhart.

Bloke is trending towards Jake Spencer.

Probably want super speed on one wing if Langdon goes down with an injury. I haven't quite given up on Oskar yet. (Yet.)

Edited October 7, 20213 yr by Redlagged

I’m still so surprised that we delisted Lockhart.

Mitch Brown is a waste.

I love the Majak story but with so many rucks flying around I feel we could’ve nabbed a cheap one with more upside. Hard to secure a good cheap 3rd ruck but they’re flying around at the moment.

Baker especially and Bedford don’t have many AFL traits apart from speed but we’ve seen with someone like Hunt it often pays to just keep backing in speed to see what happens.

I feel for Marty Hore if injuries ruin his chance.

Declase really has something, he’s too good for VFL. His Casey games showed real talent, but does he have the desire to round out his game and become an AFL footballer? 

12 minutes ago, Redlagged said:

Probably want super speed on one wing if Langdon goes down with an injury. I haven't quite given up on Oskar yet. (Yet.)

I'm yet to see this so called super speed that he supposedly has.

I'm sure he's stoked as hell he's been given another free run on the list but he's as depth as they come.

Even when Langdon had to miss against Brisbane with concussion the club preferred James Jordon instead of Baker on the wing.

I would have even preferred Declase signed up then Baker. At least he's looked more natural as a wingman.

I'd be spewing also if I was Jay Lockhary right now..

Edited October 7, 20213 yr by dazzledavey36

14 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm yet to see this so called super speed that he supposedly has.

I'm sure he's stoked as hell he's been given another free run on the list but he's as depth as they come.

Even when Langdon had to miss against Brisbane with concussion the club preferred James Jordon instead of Baker on the wing.

I would have even preferred Declase signed up then Baker. At least he's looked more natural as a wingman.

I'd be spewing also if I was Jay Lockhary right now..

Lockart’s strong odds to be the better footballer and I wish he made it, but he was a very good VFL player with little upside. Fitness was an issue and every other part of his game was ok or good but not great.

I’m not at all sold on Baker but the speed is definitely there, not lightening but definitely quick. He must have improved his tank or they would’ve given up. I don’t think his game sense will ever be up to it but clearly they think there’s a chance. I wouldn’t have kept him but I understand why he’s had 1 more 1 last chance 

 

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Lockart’s strong odds to be the better footballer and I wish he made it, but he was a very good VFL player with little upside. Fitness was an issue and every other part of his game was ok or good but not great.

I’m not at all sold on Baker but the speed is definitely there, not lightening but definitely quick. He must have improved his tank or they would’ve given up. I don’t think his game sense will ever be up to it but clearly they think there’s a chance. I wouldn’t have kept him but I understand why he’s had 1 more 1 last chance 

 

Agree with all that DS, another thing that worries me about Baker is his kicking, it can be horrid at times.

Disco 🕺 

6 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

So in all of this where does this leave the likes of Taj Woewodin and Andy Moniz-Wakefield for a spot on our list?

if we nominate them both and they go undrafted after the national draft AMW can be directly added as a Cat B as he's an NGA but taj would take up a cat A rookie spot and i really hope we take him, has more upside than a lot of these guys we've re-signed, really not sure what we were thinking with Baker and Bedford and i hope we didn't up Chandlers offer to 2yrs to ward off Adelaide's interest coz he hasn't impressed me at afl level and doesn't tear games apart as a mid/hf or as a goalkicker in the vfl so i think we could have afforded to lose him.

5 hours ago, BigMacjnr said:

Agree, rookie deals are for 1 year, and the maximum length of time is usually 3 years on the rookie list but is now one extra year due to Covid impacts. Only senior listed players can be given multiple year deals in my understanding. 

you can sign a mult year deal as a rookie as ethan hughes did at freo a few years ago and i think a lot of the tiges boys did too over the last 5 years. but it can only max at 3 years coz that's the maximum time you previously could be rookied now obviously its 4 briefly.

Hore will be so so stiff is such a good reserve for lever and we've previously always shown support for injured players nietschke, vanders in particular recently, hope we give him another season

I know what the club think internally of Chandler and they love him.

It wouldn't surprise me if he comes in for T Mac next year and we just play Jackson or Gawn as resting forward with Big Ben Brown as the leading target and let the smalls wreak havoc.

 

Chandl;er being upgraded has surprised me because we only have 2 picks in the draft then and 2 picks in the rookie draft. We won't be using pick 49 then if Declase and Hore aren't signed.

BEST 22

B: RIVERS, MAY, LEVER

HB: BOWEY, PETTY, SALEM

C: LANGDON, PETRACCA, BRAYSHAW

HF: NEAL-BULLEN, JACKSON, SPARROW

F: FRITSCH, B.BROWN, PICKETT

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, VINEY

IC: HUNT, SPARGO, HARMES, MCDONALD

SUB: DUNSTAN

EMERG: JORDON, TOMLINSON, HIBBERD

 

CASEY

B: DRAFT PICK, TURNER, J.SMITH

HB: HIBBERD, TOMLINSON, D.SMITH

C: BAKER, DUNSTAN, ROSMAN

HF: MELKSHAM, M.BROWN, LAURIE

F: CHANDLER, WEIDEMAN, BEDFORD

FOLL: DAW, JORDON, DRAFT PICK

IC: DRAFT PICK, DRAFT PICK

 

 

I find it extraordinary that we've locked in a bunch of C graders mid way through the trade period, which severely limits our ability to get involved if other teams are holding fire sales on picks and players.

By all means sign them up after the trade period if that's we want to do, but you can't tell me that guys like Baker, Daw & Bedford are going to get other offers in the meantime.

14 minutes ago, poita said:

I find it extraordinary that we've locked in a bunch of C graders mid way through the trade period, which severely limits our ability to get involved if other teams are holding fire sales on picks and players.

By all means sign them up after the trade period if that's we want to do, but you can't tell me that guys like Baker, Daw & Bedford are going to get other offers in the meantime.

it suggests that their plan is in place, whatever it is.

 

12 minutes ago, poita said:

I find it extraordinary that we've locked in a bunch of C graders mid way through the trade period, which severely limits our ability to get involved if other teams are holding fire sales on picks and players.

By all means sign them up after the trade period if that's we want to do, but you can't tell me that guys like Baker, Daw & Bedford are going to get other offers in the meantime.

My reservation is that we will have almost zero flexibility to add players in the PSD or the MSD. 

There will probably be very good Vic players who miss the draft because they have very little exposed form.  By next year they will have a chance to perform but unless we get LTI we won't have the room to draft them.

22 minutes ago, poita said:

I find it extraordinary that we've locked in a bunch of C graders mid way through the trade period, which severely limits our ability to get involved if other teams are holding fire sales on picks and players.

By all means sign them up after the trade period if that's we want to do, but you can't tell me that guys like Baker, Daw & Bedford are going to get other offers in the meantime.

My view is the club are rewarding these guys for a tough year and finals series where they were away from friends and family for the betterment of our best 22 where they weren't going to crack a spot. Fundamentally, this is a "culture" decision where the whole playing group are in focus and the club isn't being mercenary with 7 list spots that won't change whether we contend or not next year. We know what we're going to get with these guys, and it will start with holding a standard through pre-season (the same standard held through the finals series). 

20 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

My view is the club are rewarding these guys for a tough year and finals series where they were away from friends and family for the betterment of our best 22 where they weren't going to crack a spot. Fundamentally, this is a "culture" decision where the whole playing group are in focus and the club isn't being mercenary with 7 list spots that won't change whether we contend or not next year. We know what we're going to get with these guys, and it will start with holding a standard through pre-season (the same standard held through the finals series). 

I agree, in the main. Definitely culture plays a part .The club has worked hard at creating a one club culture. That includes staff, the men's list and the women's list. Not making unnecessary cuts to the lists help maintain that culture.

But i don't think retaining those seven players is their reward for their support and effort over the last 12 months. There is no room for players they don't think can make it and hard calls need to be made - and they made some, as AVB and Lochart can attest to. 

So yes culture is important but, I see the decision to keep those seven on the list as a very pragmatic one actually.

In terms of the men's team the club, and Gawn in particularly, really emphasized through the finals how important the other 22 players were and how much they contributed to our success.

One obvious way they did so is continuing to train to an elite level which no doubt really helped the starting 22 prepare, particularly with the two match sims they played (a model they may continue to use next season).

So you need 44 players committed to the training regime and work required, regardless of how many senior game they are playing.  I have little doubt all seven tick that off.

And you need players who can come into the seniors and be like for like replacements for an injured player. I disagree that those seven players didn't have shot at senior selection. I have little doubt if Gawn had been in injured in say the QF, Daw would have come in for him in the premlim. And that chandler may well have replaced Kozzie or Spargo.  Baker may have had a shot at replacing Langers, and who knows Brown might have had shot replacing Tmac or Brown.  

The magnificent seven will all have their chance next year in the event of injuries. But they will being going into the season under no illusions about the difficulty of doing and if they don't crack senior selection will continue to work hard. They are a known quantity - the club know first hand what their work etic is, which is not true of anyone traded or drafted in

And importantly, when not playing seniors,  they will help ensure Casey mirrors the ones in terms of structure, roles, system etc.

There are two other points, both also related to pragmatism.

A fundamental of good list management is a good spread in terms of age demographics. Retaining Chandler, Oskar Baker, Toby Bedford, Mitch Brown, Majak Daw, Deakyn Smith and Daniel Turner supports that strategy as their ages incrementally range from 21 to 30. 

The second point is say we decided not to re-sign Chandler, Oskar Baker, Toby Bedford, Mitch Brown, Majak Daw, Deakyn Smith and Daniel Turner. Do people really think we are going to able to replace them with better players? 

We will have players identified to draft - and have enough picks to add them. So there is no point delisting players to create more list spots on the off chance  of  picking up a young guy in the draft who is better option than say Baker.  

Similarly there is not much point just trading in players around the same market price as the magnificent seven, which is what we would have to do as if we delisted those seven players we are not freeing up much cap space.  

 

The 7 resigning should be under the Casey news imv.  They represent emergency options albeit n fairness Turner D-Smith and Bedford are still under development. 

When players are in th fringe area of the list, not best 30, the development and line coachs are always asked for input regarding the retention of players.

2 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

The 7 resigning should be under the Casey news imv.  They represent emergency options albeit n fairness Turner D-Smith and Bedford are still under development. 

Wrong wrong wrong 

we have had all our squad inc. the winning 23 from 2021 at the venues etc in Perth and included in the celebrations.

These recent signees are all in the 30 odd or 40 that will make up our 2022 squad.

Pre Season training includes all in the squad so NO reason to split this group till almost when the season starts.

Every one is starting from SCRATCH agsin remember as in Goody's message to Our newest recruit Luke Dunstan.

All in till March is the way to go!!

Go Dees back to back 

BTW welcome to the Premiers Luke D all the best for a long and successful career here and possibly a flag or two!!

 

 

 

I sometimes listen to trade radio and see some of the trades like O'Brien to WB and wonder why clubs pick players like O'Brien and pump up their value but lose players like Lipinski for a song, it makes no sense that St Kilda let Dunstan go without at least a fight when the midfield last year was a shambles until Dunstan was played.

I guess we believe the 7 players which were resigned were better than the other clubs rejects or draftees in the current crop using more of our picks.