CHANGES: Rd 21 vs West Coast

[DeeSpencer 25,709]

1 minute ago, Wrecker46 said:

We'll they did a good job then stopping dangerous forwards if gold coast were restricted to 4 goals for the match and we won by over 90 points

No, we just played Gold Coast and limited them to about 20 inside 50’s for the game. 

[adonski 12,140]

Put Rivers in the guts you cowards

[titan_uranus 25,020]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Woeful up forward particularly in the 3rd quarter and last, cost us 5 goals.. 2 bad set shots in the second I think. 

But we’ve seen all year he’s not a forward but is a pretty handy midfielder even if he makes mistakes.

The question with dropping him is who is better?

I love JJ’s clean hands and team style but he can’t really kick nor is he a strong contested ball winner. He doesn’t compliment Viney and Sparrow any better than Harmes does. 

Vanders - meh, he’s pretty much the same as Harmes with worse movement. Melksham - no. Jones - no, for now. Chandler - no. Kye Declase - one to watch, but I doubt it.

Jordon's shown all year he's capable of working within our side, particularly when we had Harmes in and Viney out. Would be a return to that sort of midfield if we swapped Jordon for Harmes.

Otherwise vandenBerg may be a very similar sort of player but at some point we have to put our foot down with Harmes' poor performances.

1 hour ago, Travy14 said:

Petracca had 7 and Oliver 4 turnovers.  They getting dropped,  Harmes was great today and is the midfield rotation we need.  24 disposals at 63%, 8 tackles, 29 pressure acts and should have kicked 2 if not 3 goals.   He allows Oliver and Petracca do what they do.  

Turnovers need to be in context.

Oliver had 35 and Petracca 32, with more disposals comes more turnovers. Oliver had 12 clearances and Petracca 6 (Harmes 3). And Petracca and Oliver were on the park for 89% and 88% of the game respectively, but Harmes only 76%. So he's racking up errors despite getting less of the ball and being on the field for less of the time. And of course, Oliver and Petracca hit the scoreboard but Harmes kick 0.3 from three gettable set shots.

Defensively his game was fine, but that applied to the entire side today. But when he picks up the ball Harmes makes too many errors.

[demon3165 2,718]

41 minutes ago, Travy14 said:

Agree, but id also like that from T-Mac, Viney, ANB and Sparrow.  But people need to rem Harmes is our 4th-5th midfielder, he isnt going to be polished.  No club has that,  he is a very handy mid rotation.  He kicks 3 goals and I bet no one is talking about him.

Same as everyone is on Vineys back about today's game, whilst I agree it was bad,  his past month he has been a shining light.

Harmes has been in the system many years it is not about being polished its about knowing your limitations and playing to them and understanding your role his first instinct is what Viney does try to fend of and bight off more than you chew and that is the coaches fault but it needs to get it out of his game.

Edited August 1, 2021 by demon3165

[Wrecker46 2,980]

32 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

No, we just played Gold Coast and limited them to about 20 inside 50’s for the game. 

Part of the reason for that is because Rivers and Hunt were pushing up and down the ground

[The Chief 697]

10 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Harmes has been in the system many years it is not about being polished its about knowing your limitations and playing to them and understanding your role his first instinct is what Viney does try to fend of and bight off more than you chew and that is the coaches fault but it needs to get it out of his game.

Totally agree. The coaches, and to some extent the senior players, are responsible for allowing players to continuously try to play above their capabilities.

Jack Viney needs to understand he is not Petracca, he can’t break tackles or try fancy evasive moves, he needs to focus on giving the ball off at the first opportunity.  Either he’s not being told that, or worse, is he is being told that but can’t change his ways.  If the latter he has to be dropped until he gets it.

 Harmes is very similar to Jack, trying to play way above his skill level.  How many times does he have to fail to fend off a tackler before the penny drops that he just can’t get away with that at AFL level  

Both need time at Casey to get back to basics and play within their capabilities. 

[Travy14 1,917]

19 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Jordon's shown all year he's capable of working within our side, particularly when we had Harmes in and Viney out. Would be a return to that sort of midfield if we swapped Jordon for Harmes.

Otherwise vandenBerg may be a very similar sort of player but at some point we have to put our foot down with Harmes' poor performances.

Turnovers need to be in context.

Oliver had 35 and Petracca 32, with more disposals comes more turnovers. Oliver had 12 clearances and Petracca 6 (Harmes 3). And Petracca and Oliver were on the park for 89% and 88% of the game respectively, but Harmes only 76%. So he's racking up errors despite getting less of the ball and being on the field for less of the time. And of course, Oliver and Petracca hit the scoreboard but Harmes kick 0.3 from three gettable set shots.

Defensively his game was fine, but that applied to the entire side today. But when he picks up the ball Harmes makes too many errors.

This is exactly my point, petracca and Oliver are our guns.  No side has three, four, five like that go through the mids,  I like Jordon too,  but he is better in the side with those two as he is the wing/half back rotation.  Which is the role Sparrow played today.

[M_9 2,082]

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Hibberd’s also shut down Dusty, put the brakes on Stringer, held Papley quiet, held Toby Greene to very few touches and not a huge impact.

...

Hibbo didn't put the brakes on Stringer. Jake had 24 disposals, his third highest this year. He was among the Don's best.

Greene had 17 disposals and kicked 5.2, his equal best this year.  He was close to the Giant's best. Hibbo had 3 disposals.

Hibbo's disposal is atrocious. He kicks it lace out to an opponent or, like Jones, bombs long. 

Bowey had 13 disposals (10 to half time) and was close to 100 % efficient. 

I'm sick to death of the likes of Viney and Hibbo who, whilst they give their all, butcher the ball leading to opposition goals.

Hibbo's stuff ups lead directly to two Hawk's goals. A 'loss' that could define our season.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

21 minutes ago, Travy14 said:

This is exactly my point, petracca and Oliver are our guns.  No side has three, four, five like that go through the mids,  I like Jordon too,  but he is better in the side with those two as he is the wing/half back rotation.  Which is the role Sparrow played today.

I'm not arguing Harmes needs to be as good as Petracca or Oliver, I'm arguing he needs to be better than he is right now.

He makes too many mistakes, he turns it over too much as a proportion of his time on ground and ball he wins, and he repeats his mistakes (three set shots all missing to the near side, taking on tacklers and getting caught, not taking the first option, missing targets by foot).

We absolutely need defensive mids to complement Petracca and Oliver, and Harmes at his best can be that player, but right now he's a long, long way from his best, and IMO he's not playing well enough.

18 minutes ago, M_9 said:

Hibbo didn't put the brakes on Stringer. Jake had 24 disposals, his third highest this year. He was among the Don's best.

Greene had 17 disposals and kicked 5.2, his equal best this year.  He was close to the Giant's best. Hibbo had 3 disposals.

Hibbo's disposal is atrocious. He kicks it lace out to an opponent or, like Jones, bombs long. 

Bowey had 13 disposals (10 to half time) and was close to 100 % efficient. 

I'm sick to death of the likes of Viney and Hibbo who, whilst they give their all, butcher the ball leading to opposition goals.

Hibbo's stuff ups lead directly to two Hawk's goals. A 'loss' that could define our season.

He's talking about the return match, where Greene had 7 disposals, 2 marks and no tackles.

[Redleg 40,925]

I thought Viney's first half was horrible. His second was good.

He needs to be coached from now on, to take the first option, immediately.

That will improve his game and ours.

We know he is hard at the ball and not great at disposal, but a quick release to another player, will avoid htb decisions and at least get the ball forward quickly, where our scoring opportunities will increase.

Harmes needs to be told to do likewise and when he kicks for goal, to not run out to the right.

Both of them can be valuable to us, with a little change to their games.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Redleg

[ProperDee 1,698]

I’d like to see a couple of changes too but unless TMac is injured, it would take a very brave selection committee to dump players after a 16 goal win.

[dl4e 5,851]

Give TMAC a rest and play the weed. Yes there is a risk but maybe worth it. They can both play similiar roles.

[M_9 2,082]

9 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I thought Viney's first half was horrible. His second was good.

He needs to be coached from now on, to take the first option, immediately.

That will improve his game and ours.

We know he is hard at the ball and not great at disposal, but a quick release to another player, will avoid htb decisions and at least get the ball forward quickly, where our scoring opportunities will increase.

Harmes needs to be told to do likewise and when he kicks for goal, to not run out to the right.

Both of them can be valuable to us, with a little change to their games.

Agree. You'd think with 6 days in lockdown you'd think Yze,  Chocco or someone could coach both Jack and James into taking the first option or somehow getting a clean disposal.

[Pates 9,660]

10 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I thought Viney's first half was horrible. His second was good.

He needs to be coached from now on, to take the first option, immediately.

That will improve his game and ours.

We know he is hard at the ball and not great at disposal, but a quick release to another player, will avoid htb decisions and at least get the ball forward quickly, where our scoring opportunities will increase.

Harmes needs to be told to do likewise and when he kicks for goal, to not run out to the right.

Both of them can be valuable to us, with a little change to their games.

This x1000. He got hands to the ball in good spots almost every time and instead of taking the first option he would try to bust his way through the tacklers, coughing it up almost every time or getting pinged HTB. He takes the handball or kick and suddenly we’re in better positions. 

Personally I think he should be dropped but it’s extremely unlikely to happen. 

[BDA 22,755]

If the Weid replaces TMac will be very interesting to see how he goes as the second tall with BB. That was the intended set-up pre season before they both got injured

 

[Bigred 494]

2 hours ago, Dee*ceiving said:

With our poor finishing I think we'd be unwise not to at least have a look at Melksham. He's our best finisher and field kick. 

Give him eagles and crows, see what he can bring us.

Harmes out 

Melksham in

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I agree 

[demon3165 2,718]

Oliver and Trac need to learn one thing you don't have to throw the ball an the boot as their first option great players take that extra half second or two and deliver it lace out when they both do that that will elevate them to another level hope choco is working on that.

 

[Travy14 1,917]

36 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I'm not arguing Harmes needs to be as good as Petracca or Oliver, I'm arguing he needs to be better than he is right now.

He makes too many mistakes, he turns it over too much as a proportion of his time on ground and ball he wins, and he repeats his mistakes (three set shots all missing to the near side, taking on tacklers and getting caught, not taking the first option, missing targets by foot).

We absolutely need defensive mids to complement Petracca and Oliver, and Harmes at his best can be that player, but right now he's a long, long way from his best, and IMO he's not playing well enough.

He's talking about the return match, where Greene had 7 disposals, 2 marks and no tackles.

He does the same as Petracca and Oliver but shorter game time and mid time.  Petracca went at under 40% efficiency.  Oliver is lucky to score a point where having a set shot.

Harmes does some silly things I agree, but his aggression and mentality to take the game on often turns into scores.  If your a defensive mid going at over 60% your doing your job.

I think it's about a balancing act with him and viney and who ever is on put them in more.

If I had my way it actually be Brayshaw playing that role, but he seams to be playing his role too well.

[Travy14 1,917]

1 minute ago, Travy14 said:

 Petracca went at under 40% efficiency. 

Last week 

[loges 6,767]

Was TMac really injured or was it just an excuse to give him a rest and Jordan a run?

[DeeSpencer 25,709]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

 

I thought Viney's first half was horrible. His second was good.

He needs to be coached from now on, to take the first option, immediately.

That will improve his game and ours.

We know he is hard at the ball and not great at disposal, but a quick release to another player, will avoid htb decisions and at least get the ball forward quickly, where our scoring opportunities will increase.

 

The weird thing is Viney’s kicking when he’s balanced up in space has been better in the last few weeks than it has in years. He’s laced out targets! All because he’s not rushing and just bombing it.

At other times he’s evading too many and getting caught. 

So first option in tight.

Keep going with not rushing and finding targets when in time and space.

As bad as he’s been there’s been some signs of growth in recent weeks.

[BDA 22,755]

5 minutes ago, loges said:

Was TMac really injured or was it just an excuse to give him a rest and Jordan a run?

Hurt his back apparently

[goodwindees 2,488]

4 hours ago, Redlagged said:

So did I - and many others on Demonland (who have gone quiet on the matter). Amazing, isn't it, that people actually involved in the club and the game might know a little more than the geniuses on this site?

Jackson was very poor for several weeks and played a couple of stinkers AFTER some on Demonland correctly suggested he needed some time off to recharge & reset. It was the right call by Demonlanders at the time.  Now, if you’re going to put much credence on the form of players based on the witches hats they played today, you’re on your own. I will not be judging Jackson and a few others on today’s game. 

[Anti-Saint 245]

4 hours ago, BW511 said:

Out - Harmes 

In - JJ

Harmes a Goodloss favourite but Harmes is still a C-grade player - he is not improving.  Give JJ another go.

[picket fence 17,169]

4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Harmes is god awful..( relax @Baghdad Bob.. before you go all mental health on me ) he won't get dropped unfortunately.  There'll be only forced changes.

My ins and outs

Weideman for McDonald 

Hibberd for Salem

Dazzle if Mc Donald is out happy with weeds would you drop Viney for Jones?? HAVING said that Vineys second half was a litle better than his shocking first!