CHANGES: Rd 18 vs Hawthorn

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,665]

1 hour ago, binman said:

 

Viney was the perfect player to go to Wines, but it left Harmes without an obvious tagging role.   

 

Was he? I have no problem with Viney's efforts, but I thought he was too small to handle Wines. Nevertheless, to Viney's credit, although Wines still got a lot of the ball, I didn't think he was particularly influential overall.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 hours ago, binman said:

By the by,  can Sparrow play for casey this weekend?

Sure can.

[Turner 1,505]

nil, next

[ucanchoose 1,816]

Anb out.  Milkshake  in

[dee-tox 4,835]

4 hours ago, Jaded said:

Vanders is too slow and his ball use is as bad as Harmes. He just does not bring in anything we need.

 

Had another look at the replay and Harmes' game was worse than I thought. Had a bit of a Barry Crocker.

If Viney is doing the main defensive role to we need two taggers?

I sometimes think that we are too harsh on Vanders. I think he has value as a big bodied mid. Good tackler, hard at it and good overhead. Makes others walk taller  I've said this on a few ocassions but Demonland myth number 27 is that Vanders is slow. He's not. Is his ball use a worry? Sometimes but I'd like to see him given the chance Harmes has had.

[titan_uranus 24,963]

19 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

Had another look at the replay and Harmes' game was worse than I thought. Had a bit of a Barry Crocker.

If Viney is doing the main defensive role to we need two taggers?

I sometimes think that we are too harsh on Vanders. I think he has value as a big bodied mid. Good tackler, hard at it and good overhead. Makes others walk taller  I've said this on a few ocassions but Demonland myth number 27 is that Vanders is slow. He's not. Is his ball use a worry? Sometimes but I'd like to see him given the chance Harmes has had.

That may be true, but Demonland myth number 28 is that vandenBerg brings some mythical level of "toughness" that only he can provide.

We're not lacking for toughness. vandenBerg should not be getting a game unless he's learnt how to be involved on offence, and that requires an ability to get the ball and then an ability to use it. Contrary to your post, I don't think "sometimes" is the correct answer to the question "is his ball use a worry". The answer to that question is "regularly", and that is a major drawback for a player who doesn't get a lot of it and who otherwise doesn't do much other than lay tackles and bump.

[dee-tox 4,835]

7 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

That may be true, but Demonland myth number 28 is that vandenBerg brings some mythical level of "toughness" that only he can provide.

We're not lacking for toughness. vandenBerg should not be getting a game unless he's learnt how to be involved on offence, and that requires an ability to get the ball and then an ability to use it. Contrary to your post, I don't think "sometimes" is the correct answer to the question "is his ball use a worry". The answer to that question is "regularly", and that is a major drawback for a player who doesn't get a lot of it and who otherwise doesn't do much other than lay tackles and bump.

Each to their own Titan but that 'mythical' toughness wasn't a myth in the 2018 run up to the finals and the three finals.

If you're worried about Vanders' ball use fair enough. But the same goes for Harmes who had three kicks last night and turned over everyone of them!. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by dee-tox

[demon3165 2,662]

Viney out Sparrow in

[titan_uranus 24,963]

13 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

Each to their own Titan but that 'mythical' toughness wasn't a myth in the 2018 run up to the finals and the three finals.

If you're worried about Vanders' ball use fair enough. But the same goes for Harmes who had three kicks last night and turned over everyone of them!. 

The myth is that he has toughness that others don't have or that the side lacks. We don't need him running around throwing his weight at opposition players. We're now a top 4 side, not a challenger trying to rough up the best. 

Harmes' ball use last night was bad, I agree. The question is whether Harmes is worthy of that spot or whether someone else could do better. If we are looking at someone else, I'd offer Jones (once he's fit again), Sparrow and Melksham as players who can do more with the time on the ground that we're giving Harmes, all before I'd offer vandenBerg.

[demon3165 2,662]

If we bring vanders in might as well put Ross Dillon and Greg Parkes in as well.

Edited July 9, 2021 by demon3165

[binman 42,468]

4 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Was he? I have no problem with Viney's efforts, but I thought he was too small to handle Wines. Nevertheless, to Viney's credit, although Wines still got a lot of the ball, I didn't think he was particularly influential overall.

I think you answered your own question 

[Jaded No More 68,835]

44 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

The myth is that he has toughness that others don't have or that the side lacks. We don't need him running around throwing his weight at opposition players. We're now a top 4 side, not a challenger trying to rough up the best. 

Harmes' ball use last night was bad, I agree. The question is whether Harmes is worthy of that spot or whether someone else could do better. If we are looking at someone else, I'd offer Jones (once he's fit again), Sparrow and Melksham as players who can do more with the time on the ground that we're giving Harmes, all before I'd offer vandenBerg.

Correct. We are a different team than 2018. We are far more mature and physically strong in the middle of the ground. Nobody is physically beating us up. So unless you’re bringing AVB to be Gawn’s personal body guard the net swap of Harmes for him leaves us worse off. 
At least Harmes can get plenty of the pill and can do a shut down role when needed. We don’t have any versatility with AVB. He won’t play as an inside mid ahead of anyone currently playing and he isn’t better on the wing than Gus or JJ. And I won’t even mention Langdon because I know nobody would ever suggest we swap these two. 

[Deemania since 56 6,605]

21 hours ago, Chook said:

No change for the next 2-3 months hopefully.

This team will be too fast and too aggressive for Whoreform. Both Harmes and ANB will probably play an improved role in a team that moves the ball with some surety through the adoption of their running skills and physical pressure acts. 

AVB would also be an asset most probably in the role performed by Harmes.

There is going to be a settling effect across the Dees' players, as well, in which increasingly rapid possessions, plays and clearances will predominate, and these skills need consistency of performers, techniques, and strategies. Limited - rather than 'no' change would be most beneficial.

Carna Dees.

[jumbo returns 6,737]

Harmes gets to many contests and does the bullocking work

He's usually in there by himself and is strong enough to force a stoppage with two or three opposition players hanging off him

He plays...again and again because he does his job

[rjay 24,811]

Harmes had a shocker and he knew it...head was down just before 3Q time and his teammates tried to rally him.

I hope he can turn it around this week...one more shot at it I reckon but need to take first options.

Sometimes thinks he's Dusty.

[DeeZone 9,538]

After a great team win like that - No Change unless injuries.

[Sydee 4,378]

8 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Harmes gets to many contests and does the bullocking work

He's usually in there by himself and is strong enough to force a stoppage with two or three opposition players hanging off him

He plays...again and again because he does his job

Agree don’t understand the negative commentary on Harmes - has he had better games - yes but his effort was there and his disposal was actually ok in the second half 

not sure how you make a case for anyone being demoted after a team win like that 

I thought the only player that was a bit disappointing was Fritta - one great goal but other than that wasn’t involved that much. Has credits in the bank and no obvious replacement so he is safe 

 

[Jaded No More 68,835]

Harmes is definitely skating on one leg on thin ice. Sparrow will keep knocking on the door. As will Jones when he’s back. And you also have Melksham who I think does next to nothing but his one kick a game is always pretty solid. 
He will need to get back into some form and he’s frankly lucky that Viney is hardly going at the moment either. Another week like this one and he will be out the door. 

[Adam The God 30,026]

I wouldn't make a change. I think Harmes and Viney will click soon.

However, if Rivers needs a rest, I wouldn't be against having Bowey play one week in the big league.

[kallangurdemon 551]

35 minutes ago, Jaded said:

he’s frankly lucky that Viney is hardly going at the moment either.

A bit tough on Jack.He came straight back into the side without a hitout after a two month layoff.He was better this week than the week before and will be better next week than this week..

 

[Adam The God 30,026]

It's interesting how some that praise Viney's game [censored] on Harmes'. I thought both were similarly fierce around the contest, which was vital, and both used the ball poorly. I thought Jack used it more poorly than Harmes actually. 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,674]

18 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Agree. 8 days of goalkicking practice.  We missed 4 or 5 that shouldn’t be missed from 20-25 out.  

Only negative from the Port game.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

23 hours ago, 58er said:

That would be ONE TALL FAR TOO MANY 

Absolutely. We're already pushing the envelope.

[Neil Crompton 5,428]

15 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

The myth is that he has toughness that others don't have or that the side lacks. We don't need him running around throwing his weight at opposition players. We're now a top 4 side, not a challenger trying to rough up the best. 

Harmes' ball use last night was bad, I agree. The question is whether Harmes is worthy of that spot or whether someone else could do better. If we are looking at someone else, I'd offer Jones (once he's fit again), Sparrow and Melksham as players who can do more with the time on the ground that we're giving Harmes, all before I'd offer vandenBerg.

Based on what AlanRichardson said about AVB on a club interview a couple of weeks ago - something like “the selectors believe that we are a better team with AVB in it” - I don’t think there is too much doubt that if his form warrants it, AVB will be in the team. 

[spirit of norm smith 16,168]

On 7/8/2021 at 11:51 PM, Diamond_Jim said:

Whatever method is being used to practice shots from the pocket..... change it

In. Kicks to the hotspot 15 metres out from goal. 
Out. Consistently kicking to the deep forward pockets.  Too easily defended against us.  Even when we mark it, it’s a difficult shot and low chance of conversions.