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Loan System for Players to Swap Clubs

Demonland
Demonland
in Melbourne Demons

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  • Demonland changed the title to Loan System for Players to Swap Clubs
 

I like it. As Dimma says, the Suns could do with a ruckman. No different to what soccer does, and the NRL had clubs loaning players to the Warriors in 4 week blocks last season. Still kind of happening this season, as on Monday the Parramatta NSW Cup team had 2 Warriors players running around for them who would normally be with Redcliffe in the Qld Cup, but could not due to COVID restrictions.

I do not think it should be for more than 4 weeks at a time and certainly not in the finals series. 

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    7 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

    I like it. As Dimma says, the Suns could do with a ruckman. No different to what soccer does, and the NRL had clubs loaning players to the Warriors in 4 week blocks last season. Still kind of happening this season, as on Monday the Parramatta NSW Cup team had 2 Warriors players running around for them who would normally be with Redcliffe in the Qld Cup, but could not due to COVID restrictions.

    I do not think it should be for more than 4 weeks at a time and certainly not in the finals series. 

    It will happen. But not for a few more years. EPL has done it for years. The 4 week idea is good and agreed, definitely not in September 

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    Imagine if you loaned out a player that helped said side make finals over your own.

    For instance a ruckman or KPP

    Edited by BW511

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    3 minutes ago, BW511 said:

    Imagine if you loaned out a player that helped said side make finals over your own.

    For instance a ruckman or KPP

    Imagine the experience they gain. 
    still our player...

    Better than Casey

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    I coach modified juniors and we do this to ensure full teams if someone is short.  Up to no finals its fine, I tell me players , play your natural game but don't kick goals against us!  Though some do as they just play naturally. :)

    But once we move into 7/8 age group when finals become a thing, winning become important.  I have seen loaned players juts stand there and watch a ball roll past them, as they won't compete against their own team.

    So you lend a player to another team (I'm assuming its a fringe/depth player or similar), they play you and they are a defender, what do they do?  Why would they work against the team they are going back to?  Maybe because they'll show their talents etc, to get more opportunity or interest from other teams.  But it would be so conflicting.  Despite being a "business" at least in AFL there is still strong team ethos between the players.

     

     

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    2 minutes ago, Darkhorse72 said:

    I coach modified juniors and we do this to ensure full teams if someone is short.  Up to no finals its fine, I tell me players , play your natural game but don't kick goals against us!  Though some do as they just play naturally. :)

    But once we move into 7/8 age group when finals become a thing, winning become important.  I have seen loaned players juts stand there and watch a ball roll past them, as they won't compete against their own team.

    So you lend a player to another team (I'm assuming its a fringe/depth player or similar), they play you and they are a defender, what do they do?  Why would they work against the team they are going back to?  Maybe because they'll show their talents etc, to get more opportunity or interest from other teams.  But it would be so conflicting.  Despite being a "business" at least in AFL there is still strong team ethos between the players.

    I would assume that a professional would act in a more professional manner than a 7 year old.

    I'm sure players in the EPL are playing for their careers so they will give it their best.

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    I don’t mind it at all, can easily be a win/win. In the example given, one team gets the benefit of a youngster getting experience and exposure that he would otherwise get, while the other team fills a short term gap. Would not be hard to say the player can’t play against his normal club and as for a team competing for a finals spot, then you just don’t do the loan, as it would make no sense.

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    Nonsense. The game has survived without player lending so why start now. Injuries are a part of football. The biggest problem with the game is that everyone wants to make changes to it all the time.

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    If I played for Melbourne and was loaned to Collingwood, I would definitely kick the ball towards Melbourne’s goals and pass it to Melbourne players. 

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    so I have only one ruck on my list knowing that I can get a backup from another club?

    Why reward bad planning

    Loaning out players in the EPL is completely different as the top 6 aren't really competing with the teams who are the beneficiaries of the loan

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    Often in soccer, or the NRL last year, the loaned player cannot play against their home club.

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    I’m happy to loan out MFC players to go to other clubs and steal their intellectual property on how they play against certain teams etc etc

    it works in soccer because they play for teams in other divisions or different countries.  I’m not sure it works at AFL level unless the loan is from SANFL/WAFL/VFL

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    Beware the 'Trojan Horse'!  Hardwick has an ulterior motive.  He has a young ruckman (Sam Ryan) who won't get senior games for a while with Nankervis and Soldo there so he wants to get senior games into Ryan.

    As Drew said lots of teams play without recognised ruckman.  Bulldogs is a team who have made an art form of not having one.  Lions don't have one available right now either.  We did very well without Max and Spencer in 2017 - quite a winning spree.

    Doubt Dimmer would lend his young ruckman to a team in finals contention. 

    Edited by Lucifer's Hero

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    Scenario. What if we lend Daw to North. But Daw wont go and they want the Weid because although equal Jackson is picked for us and Weid is in the Ressies but asks to go to North for 4 weeks. Then in the 1st week Jackson is injured, so we have to play Daw because Weid is not there.

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    I have to say I’m not a fan. The player should only play for their club and feeder club (VFL etc) and no one else. The mid season draft is there for topping up lists particularly if a player goes down early in the season leaving a list imbalance.

    I worry that that player would feel they are potentially expendable and they may actually enjoy playing for their adopted club more, resulting in greater numbers of player trade requests at season’s end. It sends the wrong message, no matter how it’s spun to them.

    Imagine our loaned player kicking the winning goal against us, injuring themselves badly or injuring one of their “teammates” on the opposing side. Players could also be cited for punching one of their own - none of these giving the game a good look.

    A player should be fighting for a senior game at their club, not seeking it elsewhere. If they are ultimately not good enough or frustrated, then the trade period is there for that reason. 

    I would potentially look at a mid season mini trade period for fringe players, eligibility to be determined, to complement the mid season draft, but that would be it for me.

    Clubs try to build a good culture and sense of camaraderie among teammates. I see this as having the potential to erode that.

    With injury comes opportunity, both giving a fringe or untried player a game, or by playing a regular player in a different role which can add flexibility to the team, both for the now and for further down the track.

    This situation can make coaches with inspired moves that can unlock a great career for a player.

    Loaning out a player achieves nothing and is merely a bandaid for bad list management or bad luck.

    Edited by Key Deefender

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    46 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

    It will happen. But not for a few more years. EPL has done it for years. The 4 week idea is good and agreed, definitely not in September 

    Not sure the EPL is a framework we want to replicate. They have had the same 6 clubs (at best) vying for the title since it's inception. That league has 10-14 teams that are systematically shut out of fighting for the title.

    Our game can be professional and flourish without relying on transactional elements from overseas sports and their privately-owned teams.

    Having a player play for you one week, then against you the next, is ludicrous and turns elite competition into a farce.

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    Good in theory but would only apply to teams that have a surplus on a certain position. Reality is you would not even get the immediate back up players, you would be getting 3rd/4th ranked players and ultimately would be more beneficial to the club lending the actual player.  

    How about just a mid season draft, with these type players on the fringe of ANY list available to be drafted?  A 2-3 day draft period during the bye would keep the AFL relevant, and it could/would be exciting if you picked up a gem from another club.  The talk of temporary trades only benefits the strong, and the really weakened teams.

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    Perhaps a worthwhile read - about the emotional experiences of the loannee

    https://taleoftwohalves.uk/featured/loan-system-work

    For those that can't be bothered

    In the context of soccer/football

    Loaning a player used to mean;

    “We can’t find a buyer for you at the moment, and we want to get some money for you, but if we leave you in the reserves no one will see you and your value will reduce. So, we’ll loan you out to a team at a lower level and then more people will see you in action and may want to buy you”. 

    But it seems to have moved to;

    “We can’t find a place for you in our first team, but there’s that little club over there who would do anything to have a player of your ability, so we’ll loan you out to them. They can play you more regularly and return you as a much better player. Then, if you haven’t developed, they can keep you permanently, and we don’t lose out.”

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    How do you develop a young player in the game plans, tactics and developing relationships with team-mates and the club, when they are playing elsewhere?

    The whole reason for taking the Casey Scorpions under our wing was to ensure that our players were trained in the "Melbourne way" by Melbourne affiliated coaches, and playing in positions that suited their future roles at senior level.

    How would we feel when a "loaned" player is sent back onto the ground with a "niggle" which gets exacerbated and becomes more serious?

    Silly idea.

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    • Like 5
    5 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

    Then, if you haven’t developed, they can keep you permanently, and we don’t lose out.”

    Hardwicks motivation imo.

    We probably won't have room to play in our Senior team any time soon, see what he has got at no risk to us.  If he plays well we either trade him for more, or want him for their own team if he surpasses all expectations. Win/Win.

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