Mark Maclure saying the culture and success at the Dees needs to be driven by the players. He is the perfect guy to comment as he was a key member of the fantastic Carlton sides of the 80s. Parkin may have coached them but that group played together socialised together and won premierships by being honest with each other, never letting egos get too big and having immense pride in their ability to play big time footy.  

Love him or hate him. 

He is dead right. 

Not a fan of the bloke, but hard to argue...

“The problem is the culture’s all wrong. Which is the biggest-name player that’s ever been dropped at Melbourne? I can’t think of one. Because it’s soft, a soft culture they’ve got.

“What’s got to happen is if the actual coaching staff and the people on the board don’t stand up and start to build a culture of this football club – it’s been 50, 60 years since they’ve won a Grand Final … and they’re still the same. Have they improved? Or have they got worse?”

Asked who’s responsible for helping flip the club’s fortunes, Maclure said: “I think the players are. If you want to play at that footy club, you’ve got to stand up and set some standards for yourself.

“Max Gawn is the captain of this joint – why isn’t he doing it? Why aren’t the senior players getting together and talking about it and actually putting your hand up if you made a mistake instead of actually running away from mistakes and saying ‘that’s just Melbourne’?”

‘Stand up and set some standards’: Mark Maclure urges Dees players to help fix ‘soft culture’

Dead right.

Disagree - I have heard him stick the boots into the Dees for years.  He makes these big statements but really has no idea what he's talking about.

I'm not saying everything is fine with our culture but I won't take notice of what Maclure thinks as I see him as a Dinosaur of a different era.

If you listen to him talk about any team (not just Melbourne) he wheels out the same narratives when things are going poorly for a team - he doesn't do the research or keep up with the changes, just shoots his mouth off and that's enough to start a chain of articles.

Do people seriously think that Max Gawn isn't "doing it"?  Do you think the senior players aren't getting together and talking about it?  Gimme a break.  The AFL is a very competitive industry where 9 teams lose every weekend - we're in the preseason with half our first choice team not playing against a nearly full strength team that will be in contention this year.

9 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Not a fan of the bloke, but hard to argue...

“The problem is the culture’s all wrong. Which is the biggest-name player that’s ever been dropped at Melbourne? I can’t think of one. Because it’s soft, a soft culture they’ve got.

“What’s got to happen is if the actual coaching staff and the people on the board don’t stand up and start to build a culture of this football club – it’s been 50, 60 years since they’ve won a Grand Final … and they’re still the same. Have they improved? Or have they got worse?”

Asked who’s responsible for helping flip the club’s fortunes, Maclure said: “I think the players are. If you want to play at that footy club, you’ve got to stand up and set some standards for yourself.

“Max Gawn is the captain of this joint – why isn’t he doing it? Why aren’t the senior players getting together and talking about it and actually putting your hand up if you made a mistake instead of actually running away from mistakes and saying ‘that’s just Melbourne’?”

‘Stand up and set some standards’: Mark Maclure urges Dees players to help fix ‘soft culture’

100% It simply has to be done

Have said it for years. How often have we had the Press Conference after a Bad Loss “We will learn from this” Only to be served up the same bile a week later

it’s to easy to get a game at a bottom club, and your wage is the same...

I think this is way too simplistic. I don’t disagree with the need to be honest and for the players to drive this, but if it were as simple as isolating one factor in why clubs succeed or don’t then this would have been identified centuries ago. My question for Maclure is what evidence does he have the club isn’t doing this other than losing a preseason match?

Edited March 10, 20214 yr by grazman

Confused by the narrative. So is it the players or the board/coaching staff?

In the paragraph above he takes aim at both before taking a pot shot at Gawn.

What exactly is Gawn meant to do? Need specifics.  Have a sit down and tell some players some truths. Ok and then what? Tom mcdonald suddenly going to rediscover form and langdon is going to hit targets?  

Whats the coach meant to do? Drop say Lever a few weeks and suddenly hell magically become an a grader? They sent a message to Fritsch last year.  Did that make a difference? 

Lets fix the fact we have 6-8 vfl players running around each week first. 

Edited March 10, 20214 yr by Jjrogan

22 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Love him or hate him. 

He is dead right. 

Agree.

Players make teams.

Commentators are over paid and, generally, underperforming. Maybe they should apply some standards to their job instead of rolling out ill conceived bias from yesteryear. 

On Sunday listening to Gary “pull your head out” Lyon talk about us, he rambled that Kozzie would be back soon from interstate... when in fact Kozzie was already back and played in our Casey team earlier that morning.!! Gary, how about you do your job? 

Maclure is muckracking with stereotypes for simpletons, essentially because he is one, and it’s easier than looking closer, doing some research or, god forbid, thinking.

rant over. 

Edited March 10, 20214 yr by PaulRB

^

As I said, love him or hate him, he's not wrong.

 

36 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

Disagree - I have heard him stick the boots into the Dees for years.  He makes these big statements but really has no idea what he's talking about.

I'm not saying everything is fine with our culture but I won't take notice of what Maclure thinks as I see him as a Dinosaur of a different era.

If you listen to him talk about any team (not just Melbourne) he wheels out the same narratives when things are going poorly for a team - he doesn't do the research or keep up with the changes, just shoots his mouth off and that's enough to start a chain of articles.

Do people seriously think that Max Gawn isn't "doing it"?  Do you think the senior players aren't getting together and talking about it?  Gimme a break.  The AFL is a very competitive industry where 9 teams lose every weekend - we're in the preseason with half our first choice team not playing against a nearly full strength team that will be in contention this year.

They may think they are doing it, as opposed to doing it successfully. Do you think thew Club would need to initiate a leave your egos at the door policy if it was being done well already. As to maclure the commentator, well, each to their own, but the reality is he has been dead right about everything he has said about us, as you say for years.

He's right that its been 56 years since our last premiership

That's not something to be proud of - somethings NQR

Our list is either not good enough (possible) or there is a lack of real hunger by the playing group in particular

For many decades this club has appeared to be happy with either modest levels of success or found ways to excuse its failings

I think most of this rests with the players, once they cross that line the coaches have limited control

In my long journey supporting this club the times I have felt confident going into games knowing that the players would play for each other and give 100% unconditionally have been fairly limited unfortunately

 

The disparity between our best and worst, the fade-outs and inability to arrest momentum suggest mental fragility and/or lack of accountability to me. No fan of McClure but I think he’s right on this one.

I can't stand the [censored], but he's not wrong on this one. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. 

This is your early storm warning signal that's it's open season on the MFC in 2021. The footy media smell blood and are already sharpening the knives. Prepare for a series of attacks, culminating in the the old faithful "what does Melbourne stand for???"

Only one way to stave off the onslaught, and that's by winning games, and lots of them.

GO DEMONS!!!

100% right and the softness is possibly also a reflection of the supprter base...in general we don't seem to expect that much from these guys.

I always think back to those reported comments made by Melbourne Storm players about the lack of dedication and professionalism at the MFC. Doesn't seem to be changing.

43 minutes ago, grazman said:

I think this is way too simplistic. I don’t disagree with the need to be honest and for the players to drive this, but if it were as simple as isolating one factor in why clubs succeed or don’t then this would have been identified centuries ago. My question for Maclure is what evidence does he have the club isn’t doing this other than losing a preseason match?

Fair points. And simplistic is McClure's one wood.

Agree that players being honest with each other is no silver bullet.

But in more general sense honesty is an element of a broader culture. And culture is a critical element of success.  

Culture in footy club has many elements and whole club culture is super important.

But i reckon the most critical element is the culture of the team itself - that's to say the players. They have to drive each other and set the standards and non negotiables.

 

I am always impressed by those who think they can distinguish (from the outside) some cultural problem from a simple lack of skills which are obvious to all who watch the game.  No amount of  culture will turn a team of unskilled players into a champion team. 

40 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

They may think they are doing it, as opposed to doing it successfully. Do you think thew Club would need to initiate a leave your egos at the door policy if it was being done well already. As to maclure the commentator, well, each to their own, but the reality is he has been dead right about everything he has said about us, as you say for years.

Or they may be doing it and just might not be good enough?

There's so many factors that add up to a being a successful team - recruiting, revelopment, game plan, conditioning, skills, injuries, culture etc

Every club is trying their darndest to make finals and win it.  You need a bit of luck and sometimes things just need to click into place.  I'm not saying that's us - but I sure as hell hope it is!  

 

Maclure is dead right because it's easy.  Pick any club that hasn't won a flag in more than 30 years and it's culture, it's cos they're soft, no one is putting their hand up etc etc.  But he actually has no idea as he is not close with anyone at the club and does not do any research - ever.  

 

For what it's worth, I remember tralling through the Port Big Footy thread prior to our game against them last year.  So many calls for their coach to be sacked, that we were going to smash them, that their season was over etc when they went very close to being a grand finalist and many think they'll be right up there again this season.  Might be an interesting read for some to realise sometimes it's not as bad as we supporters think and that things can turn pretty quickly.

 

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/rd-9-vs-melbourne-changes.1243698/page-19 

Culture - Maclure’s knowledge of culture obviously comes from the swab they took from the end of his old fella.

I dont want Essendon’s ‘win at all costs’ mantra and the culture it created - people will suffer a lifetime of harm because of this.  I dont want collingwoods racist, elitist (disposalist) culture.

Someone commented they saw Goody giving Kozzie a big hug after the Daw/Smith reveal.  That is the behaviours that drive our culture.  Get them to care about each other, give them the tools, and then demand they uphold the standards THEY choose.  It does start and end with the group (by its definition, culture is a social construct), but I can see things that show me culture is being developed in a positive way.  They are over-communicating on the gaps (the value of storytelling to culture development) and attempting to use external agents to enforce internal change.  I have no problem with this.  It takes but a moment to actually look and see the behaviours that define culture.  I see MFC are not in a bad place, but have to now add the ‘edge’ of accountability to the picture to really use the culture as a tool to drive high performance.

 

2 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

Or they may be doing it and just might not be good enough?

There's so many factors that add up to a being a successful team - recruiting, revelopment, game plan, conditioning, skills, injuries, culture etc

Every club is trying their darndest to make finals and win it.  You need a bit of luck and sometimes things just need to click into place.  I'm not saying that's us - but I sure as hell hope it is!  

 

Maclure is dead right because it's easy.  Pick any club that hasn't won a flag in more than 30 years and it's culture, it's cos they're soft, no one is putting their hand up etc etc.  But he actually has no idea as he is not close with anyone at the club and does not do any research - ever.  

 

For what it's worth, I remember tralling through the Port Big Footy thread prior to our game against them last year.  So many calls for their coach to be sacked, that we were going to smash them, that their season was over etc when they went very close to being a grand finalist and many think they'll be right up there again this season.  Might be an interesting read for some to realise sometimes it's not as bad as we supporters think and that things can turn pretty quickly.

 

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/rd-9-vs-melbourne-changes.1243698/page-19 

Port game the previous year. I arrived a bit late, was high up in the stand so scoreboard was a bit hard to read, i mistook the score that we were winning easily. Only the play seemed to indicate we were losing. We were way ahead of ourselves that day and have not recovered since.

I have learned that if someone says something you need to look beyond the person and decide very honestly with yourself.

is what they say true?  if it is you need to take stock. I have disliked what Maclure has said for years about us, but no one has proven him wrong yet. i have met him and reckon he would be one of the first to say, good on them, they ultimately proved me wrong   

He's just speaking in generalities that can't ever be proven or disproven. It's extremely lazy. His evidence of poor culture is senior players not being dropped (which I'm sure Tom McDonald disagrees with).

The only reason he is still kept around in the footy media is because he has name recognition and because his low analysis populism appeals to a certain subset of the population who relate to what he says. It's easy to come up with his comments, which I'll do for any team that lost this weekend:

• Bad culture
• They're soft and don't go hard enough at the contest
• Lazy and don't work hard enough
• Bad gameplan
• Players look lost
• Players don't want to win enough
• Coach is out of ideas and has no plan B
• Not fit enough
• Players unmotivated or 'not switched on'

It's completely unprovable, but just panders to many supporters' existing feelings. It's like reading your horoscope. If you put generalities out there without any evidence (or knowledge) then people will just insert their own preconceptions into it. 

If you want to see how this sort of thinking works, just check out this forum after a loss. 

1 minute ago, buck_nekkid said:

Culture - Maclure’s knowledge of culture obviously comes from the swab they took from the end of his old fella.

I dont want Essendon’s ‘win at all costs’ mantra and the culture it created - people will suffer a lifetime of harm because of this.  I dont want collingwoods racist, elitist (disposalist) culture.

Someone commented they saw Goody giving Kozzie a big hug after the Daw/Smith reveal.  That is the behaviours that drive our culture.  Get them to care about each other, give them the tools, and then demand they uphold the standards THEY choose.  It does start and end with the group (by its definition, culture is a social construct), but I can see things that show me culture is being developed in a positive way.  They are over-communicating on the gaps (the value of storytelling to culture development) and attempting to use external agents to enforce internal change.  I have no problem with this.  It takes but a moment to actually look and see the behaviours that define culture.  I see MFC are not in a bad place, but have to now add the ‘edge’ of accountability to the picture to really use the culture as a tool to drive high performance.

 

hugs at this time of the year are like giving every kid who participated a medal. promote the wrong culture at this time of year. 

It takes everyone to set a culture. Board, CEO, head of footy, coach, captain, senior players. 

But it also takes everyone doing their job to be successful. North have had years of shinboner culture and decent sides under Laidley and Scott and never won anything.

We were competitive in almost every game last year and had players busting their backsides. We didn’t lose many games purely from lack of effort. Probably only the Port game.

Certainly we weren’t at our best in Cairns but it was the lack of skills and game plan that were the real issues. We kept pushing throughout those games but couldn’t over come our tactical and skill deficiencies. The wind alone ruined half our game plan and kicking ability.

We tried Mark Neeld, it gets you no where. We had Roosy build the culture and effort up but the list and skills didn’t get any better because we made short term deals for players and coaches. 

The list is what it is for this season now and it’s good enough to play finals. And the players and the coach have to set and meet high standards. But if it was as simple as just trying harder and dropping good players for less talented players we’d have stumbled in to success by now. 
 

Melksham is a guy who should’ve been dropped. Don’t get me started on Lewis too. But they are also guys who from all reports are big talkers and communicators on field. Without on field leadership and organisation the coach has no chance of getting his message through. Without a coaching game plan the team stands no chance. 
 

The best coaches since the game has gone professional are educators not rah rah disciplinarians. I don’t think Chris Fagan has ever dropped a high profile player. He does his work during the week and let’s his players play. Hodge had his impact for sure but Zorko is far from the perfect captain. Miles from it really.