2 minutes ago, deanox said:

TMac turns 29 in September. Ben Brown turns 29 in November. Mitch Brown will be 31 in August. Add to that Max is 30 at the end of this year.

Other than Sam we don't have any KPFs coming through. At nearly 24, he is about to hit his best years. And even if his best is not super star, we are going to need key forwarded on the list over the next 3 years.

I think that unless we get massive offered massive overs for his value, and have a plan for accelerated development of other forward depth, it is pretty critical we keep Sam for the next few years. At worst as depth during what should be a successful period, and best because he will be needed to step up as others drop off.

 

Exactly.

Almost regardless of his form, almost, Sam offers the MFC team structure more than Ben Brown - hell, Mitch Brown does too.  Whatever skills Ben has displayed in the past, in a frankly pretty putrid Norf outfit, they are invisible in a 2021 game structure. Even the the Norf brains trust (an oxymoron if ever there was one) recognised it.

Nothing to see here from a tempo destroying selfish player. Sam is team oriented; Ben is Oscar Mac with a crap haircut.

7 hours ago, Pates said:

That's one of the reason's why I think the time has passed. I feel like there have been opportunities in the past to do it, and Tomlinson getting hurt could have been one such moment, but I think with May, and Lever so settled back there and Petty is working his way into it nicely, this switch up isn't going to happen. Should (gulp) there be an injury to either of them I would look to Sam as the forward that's moved backward.

Marty Hore should also be back next year (if he can get and stay fit).   There's no need for a 5th option.  Especially a mark/kick type KF who has never played defence before and pretty ordinary with ground ball stuff.  Big no for mine.

20 minutes ago, deanox said:

TMac turns 29 in September. Ben Brown turns 29 in November. Mitch Brown will be 31 in August. Add to that Max is 30 at the end of this year.

Other than Sam we don't have any KPFs coming through. At nearly 24, he is about to hit his best years. And even if his best is not super star, we are going to need key forwarded on the list over the next 3 years.

I think that unless we get massive offered massive overs for his value, and have a plan for accelerated development of other forward depth, it is pretty critical we keep Sam for the next few years. At worst as depth during what should be a successful period, and best because he will be needed to step up as others drop off.

 

What makes you think those players are going to fall off a cliff? Max just signed a 4 year contract. TMac is playing like a 24 year old and down the highway Tom Hawkins is in career best form at 32.

Happy for Sam to stay on the list if he’s willing to be a depth player, but the facts remain that he has never been any good. One good game and a few cameos in six seasons now.

23 minutes ago, deanox said:

TMac turns 29 in September. Ben Brown turns 29 in November. Mitch Brown will be 31 in August. Add to that Max is 30 at the end of this year.

Other than Sam we don't have any KPFs coming through. At nearly 24, he is about to hit his best years. And even if his best is not super star, we are going to need key forwarded on the list over the next 3 years.

I think that unless we get massive offered massive overs for his value, and have a plan for accelerated development of other forward depth, it is pretty critical we keep Sam for the next few years. At worst as depth during what should be a successful period, and best because he will be needed to step up as others drop off.

 

Our Premiership window is NOW.  We don't need to keep gifting games to a FF who can't mark the ball or kick goals today.

3 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I did think it was somewhat ironic that one of the times he did clunck it well last night, was in good goal scoring distance and at a key time of the game in the 3rd qtr (when we would have really valued a goal), it was a touched ball and th mark wasn't paid ?

Clunk it well? It was a chest mark

M Brown > Weid

3 hours ago, London Demon said:

Anyway he is part of a forward set up which is kicking winning scores. You don’t change winning teams unless there is a very good reason. There ain’t here. 

The reason is, do we and can we get better. ?? With a PROVEN 60 + Goal multiple years then the answer is Definately yes!

YES !! Sorry he has had 5 and a half seaons for not too many good games.

BROWN is much more dangerous than a Sam Weideman. Ask yourself as a defender who would you rather play on?

For me its Weids , easy to manoever under the ball, kicking iffy, Need to play BB ASAP! In fact I reckon Mitch Brown offers more!

Edited June 5, 20214 yr by picket fence

The problem with Brown is, he is not playing at the moment. I’d back Weid in again.

8 hours ago, Deestroy All said:

Best defence in the league, mate. Don’t need an out of form forward thrown down there just to see if there’s a spot for him. 
 

I understand the thinking behind it. But this is not the season for it. 

I'm not saying try him back this season. But we can start grooming him in the vfl down back for other seasons. Especially when Ben Brown can substitute for Weideman pretty easily. 

26 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

M Brown > Weid

I tend to agree. Definitely a better kick for goal. 

Can't blame him for our first half. 

None of our forwards got a look in.

But I've got to say that aside from creating a contest in the air, Sam has offered little else since he's been in the side. Ben Brown is a much better set shot which is extremely important going in against the top sides where looks at goal don't come as easily so nailing your chances is absolutely crucial. 

Imo Sam is playing with the weight of knowing he needs to perform to keep his spot. He's rigid, miss-timing marks and leads and is wobbly in front of goal.

I'd offer Brown the spot next week against Collingwood, we're afforded the luxury of moving pieces around a bit, especially our key forward spot. Ben should be given another chance, I still think his leading patterns and straight lines will have us functioning better with time. 

Time to try BB again.

So much time to get it right, Weed has been underwhelming in two games now.

1 hour ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Our Premiership window is NOW.  We don't need to keep gifting games to a FF who can't mark the ball or kick goals today.

And who rarely gets separation from his man.

At least he could have tried tagging Andrews but Andrews was one of their best. Fail on all counts.

A couple of goals came as a result of him competing and bring the ball to ground. Would prefer him to be doing better but happy for him to be given a bit longer.

1 hour ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Our Premiership window is NOW.  We don't need to keep gifting games to a FF who can't mark the ball or kick goals today.

That covers it for me George.

21 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Can't blame him for our first half. 

None of our forwards got a look in.

But I've got to say that aside from creating a contest in the air, Sam has offered little else since he's been in the side. Ben Brown is a much better set shot which is extremely important going in against the top sides where looks at goal don't come as easily so nailing your chances is absolutely crucial. 

Imo Sam is playing with the weight of knowing he needs to perform to keep his spot. He's rigid, miss-timing marks and leads and is wobbly in front of goal.

I'd offer Brown the spot next week against Collingwood, we're afforded the luxury of moving pieces around a bit, especially our key forward spot. Ben should be given another chance, I still think his leading patterns and straight lines will have us functioning better with time. 

Time to try BB again.

So much time to get it right, Weed has been underwhelming in two games now.

Maybe If BBB isn't up to it ( I think he will come through then Petty ( if msybe Wrid could try defence) Mitch Brown  or Kye Declase be given a chance or even Majak. Surely one of those could average 2 goals a game and take a first defender.

With  regards to the Lions defence name or rate  the players as  individuals in ability. I think they come up short on star power except Andrews say compared to us. They may be slow also.

I always look at a team and clearly we now realise you need at least half of A and B + graders. Then role players and a couple of X factor types.

That said you then have to jell as in a team and don't we know how elusive that's  been over the years.

Lions aggression and scoring potential not unlike the Bulldogs is their greatest weapon.

On the last two blockbusters they both still have a bit of a gap matching our defensive system and on ball brigade which both give our much improved forward line enough chances to win.

1 hour ago, No Plan B said:

What makes you think those players are going to fall off a cliff? Max just signed a 4 year contract. TMac is playing like a 24 year old and down the highway Tom Hawkins is in career best form at 32.

Happy for Sam to stay on the list if he’s willing to be a depth player, but the facts remain that he has never been any good. One good game and a few cameos in six seasons now.

I didn't say they would fall off a cliff. I highlighted their age, which does make it possible they could fall off a cliff, or suffer injuries etc.

They could all give us 3 years of dominate performances. OR they could struggle very soon.

Hell, based on previous years TMac could fall off a cliff this Tuesday and never come back. 

 

1 hour ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Our Premiership window is NOW.  We don't need to keep gifting games to a FF who can't mark the ball or kick goals today.

Perfect, we're in agreement then?

Premiership window is now, so trading Weid out for draft picks is useless, plus if something happens to one of the other forwards we need a mature 24 year old forward as depth ready to step in, rather than a raw 18 year old who will take 3 years at least to show anything?

Edited June 5, 20214 yr by deanox

I don’t see the point in trading Weid or playing him back. Go all in and back him to become the forward he should be able to become, and persist until the jury is well and truly in. 

As long as we keep on winning it looks like we will carry him. Does good competitive  things but can’t kick goals outside his comfort zone of -30 metres out directly in front. Clear that problem up and making most of his limited opportunities he could be a regular 40+ goal kicker a season. 

Edited June 5, 20214 yr by John Crow Batty

6 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I don’t see the point in trading Weid or playing him back. Go all in and back him to become the forward he should be able to become, and persist until the jury is well and truly in. 

What time do you suggest Nasher ? He has had years so far. 

13 hours ago, Nascent said:

Think we just have to play him until it either clicks or Ben Brown knocks down the door to kick him out of the team. I still have belief in him but needs to stick those marks and be more efficient in front of the sticks.

A key forwards job is so exactly that and he’s not. I don’t care that Ben Brown did nothing two weeks in the VFL, he’s an experienced proven player that never should have been dropped to begin with. 

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

I don’t see the point in trading Weid or playing him back. Go all in and back him to become the forward he should be able to become, and persist until the jury is well and truly in. 

This is the point. He's 5 and half years into his career. The jury is well and truly in already.

Aside from one dominant display at Casey and a final against geelong he has done absolutely nothing.

He can't kick simple goals any more. He double grabs marks.

Put him back to Casey and/or trade him. He's a bust.

 

I say rotate Brown, Brown and Weid. Make them earn their spot!

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

This is the point. He's 5 and half years into his career. The jury is well and truly in already.

Aside from one dominant display at Casey and a final against geelong he has done absolutely nothing.

He can't kick simple goals any more. He double grabs marks.

Put him back to Casey and/or trade him. He's a bust.

 

I don’t think the jury is in yet. I can’t believe that a 23 year old forward has no prospect at rectifying the deficiencies in his game. 

I guess we will see at selection this week whether Goodwin shares your view that he’s unviable.