32 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Are we sure that incentives such as the one you've described don't count towards the salary cap?

If so, wouldn't clubs just structure their contracts with massive parts of them incentive-based?

Incentives do count towards the overall sal cap. 

But in the overall sal cap clubs have 'money pools' for things like:

• incentives eg if a player finishes 1st in the BnF they get x$ or x%, finish 2nd and it is $y or y% etc.  Similar for Brownlow votes.
• games played incentives:  'play > x games' and the player gets $x or x%.  (Phillips at Colllingwood is an example of this).  Clubs have a number of players on these incentives but would 'hedge' (budget) that not all reach them. 
• players on '$ per game' contracts (eg rookies and lower level players) getting a game.  The fewer of these payments the lower the demands on the sal cap.  A club would again 'hedge' (budget) only a certain part of the sal cap is needed for this.  (As an aside this badly hurt our sal cap last year when so many 'contract based' players were injured and we had to pay them and make 'game based' payments to the replacements).

Each of these 'pools' would be included in and budgetted as part of the overall sal cap and not a particular player.

My point was how a new club can structure TMac's package so that only the 'base component' is guarenteed and a definite part of the sal cap.  Any incentives to Tom come from the 'money pools' above which as I mentioned are budgetted separately as part of the overall sal cap.

Edited November 11, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

I reckon we'll end up paying half his wage unfortunately, it will be a fire sale type scenario couple of hours left on the clock, take it or leave it.

I'd rather he stays, but just can't see it happening, we need whatever money we can off the books going forward.

1 hour ago, deelusions from afar said:

Would love this to be the case but I think:

• Syd - no cap space.  Aliir went to have enough space to bring Hickey in to ruck.  But they are short in defence unless McCartin goes back.
• GWS still have a bunch of forwards (and defenders) that would be ahead of Tom.
• Carlton - Curnow hurts... but is TMac going to get a game ahead of McKay, Casboult, McGovern?
• Pies - they may have a need but how could they possibly get rid of Treloar (Phillips, Cox, Stephenson etc) largely due to salary cap issues and then take on a large salary from an underperforming / injury riddled TMac.  Doesn't make sense.

Still think Ess / North are our best chance as they should have salary cap space and may want some senior heads around... but neither seem keen.

All very good points ?

The North one has me thinking, is the recent talk of 2 2nd rounders for BB due to us including TMac in the trade? Effectively giving them a 2nd rounder for a salary dump? Happens in US sport all the time, and I think it's only a matter of time until it happens here

7 minutes ago, whelan45 said:

All very good points ?

The North one has me thinking, is the recent talk of 2 2nd rounders for BB due to us including TMac in the trade? Effectively giving them a 2nd rounder for a salary dump? Happens in US sport all the time, and I think it's only a matter of time until it happens here

It's a good point - I think it will show where our priorities are re the trade / draft period.

Deanox in another thread pointed out that if we're after the Doggies pick 14 and North are also after it, then we don't want to trade two 2nd round picks to North to allow them to have a better offer to the dogs - so might require a third party.

However, if we are wanting a salary dump from TMac to bring in a best 22 player (Phillips?  Treloar even?) then we won't be phased about giving the picks to North if they take TMac's salary.

Kangas are a good fit for tmcd.  They need a tall forward to go alongside  Larkey.  Surely it’s win win. 

33 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Kangas are a good fit for tmcd.  They need a tall forward to go alongside  Larkey.  Surely it’s win win. 

josh?...

If Tmac doesn't get traded, and it's looking unlikely, he essentially becomes a VERY expensive back up forward, because he won't be getting a game ahead of Brown, or presumably Weideman, and with Jackson developing, it's all against him.

Our best hope here is that he gets himself slimmed down and fit (his Instagram shows him working hard already, which is nice to see), and potentially plays a high half forward/backup ruck. Because honestly I can't see where he fits in for a game... and I haven't even mentioned a fit Petty.

4 minutes ago, Jaded said:

If Tmac doesn't get traded, and it's looking unlikely, he essentially becomes a VERY expensive back up forward, because he won't be getting a game ahead of Brown, or presumably Weideman, and with Jackson developing, it's all against him.

Our best hope here is that he gets himself slimmed down and fit (his Instagram shows him working hard already, which is nice to see), and potentially plays a high half forward/backup ruck. Because honestly I can't see where he fits in for a game... and I haven't even mentioned a fit Petty.

I think it would be back to the future with Tom down back. If we play a Richmond or to the next level Geelong style of fold back defending where we almost always keep a spare at ground level to cover he could play that role. We’d have to ask him to never ever play on and kick the ball. And it would hamper our chances of  playing up tempo footy but it would at least give him a fresh look at things.

True defensive depth right now is nonexistent so we need the cover. And Steve May would at least try to provide him some leadership. 

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I think it would be back to the future with Tom down back. If we play a Richmond or to the next level Geelong style of fold back defending where we almost always keep a spare at ground level to cover he could play that role. We’d have to ask him to never ever play on and kick the ball. And it would hamper our chances of  playing up tempo footy but it would at least give him a fresh look at things.

True defensive depth right now is nonexistent so we need the cover. And Steve May would at least try to provide him some leadership. 

Been saying this all year...

If he got himself right, imagine him taking the key forward with Lever and May zoning off...

9 minutes ago, The Stigga said:

Been saying this all year...

If he got himself right, imagine him taking the key forward with Lever and May zoning off...

If said key forward is slow enough and we get enough up field pressure it could work. And if Tom doesn’t butcher it. Pretty much the same set of conditions needed for Oscar to play with some success in a few games. 
 

I think we’ll be better off with Hore, Tomlinson or possibly Smith but at least it’s an option.

Goody was told by Pert to build a gameplan that played to our strengths.  If TMAC is up to scratch, then lets see Goody’s genius emerge!

6 minutes ago, The Stigga said:

Been saying this all year...

If he got himself right, imagine him taking the key forward with Lever and May zoning off...

Could work, he did say he is willing to work hard over summer, to shed some weight, so maybe lossing the weight could help him, get back into some form, for 2021?

t mac as the new jordan roughead? no muss, no fuss lock-down defender...

6 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

t mac as the new jordan roughead? no muss, no fuss lock-down defender...

Id settle for Lachie Henderson. Another player who’s body and spirit looked pretty well broken before a Strong comeback this year 

I thought TMac could always defend ok. It was when he tried to attack from defense things started to turn to [censored].

I have a feeling that TMac will be an option only if Jeremy Cameron deal is done to Geelong. Essendon and others don't want to lock away salary space if there is still a possibility to snare JC in the preseason draft. My gut feeling is he has a chance to move if that JC deal goes through in the early afternoon. I believe he has already toured the facilities at a few clubs and so it could be one deal that happens last minute. 

Dedoro will have a statue built of him if he is able to bring in an early draft pick, dunkley, caldwell and cameron. 

23 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Kangas are a good fit for tmcd.  They need a tall forward to go alongside  Larkey.  Surely it’s win win. 

This is obviously not right 'norm'...North are letting go of a better tall forward in Brown.

Why would they then want to bring in an inferior model in Tommy.

That's definitely not a win win for them and a pretty dumb move I would think.

Just makes no sense at all...

Edited November 12, 20204 yr by rjay

it makes u wonder why we were so eager to recontract smith when now tmac is going to be around as swing depth particularly prior to the list number announcement too

I think Tommy to GWS if Cameron deal done. Us to bundle TMac with 2nd round picks to land a teen pick from GWS in exchange...

4 minutes ago, rjay said:

This is obviously not right 'norm'...North are letting go of a better tall forward in Brown.

Why would they then want to bring in an inferior model in Tommy.

That's definitely not a win win for them and a pretty dumb move I would think.

Just makes no sense at all...

Makes sense from the point of view of: Trade an asset with value, take on a free experienced player to cover so your kids aren’t massively overexposed. The worst possible thing for clubs to do is get so young they lose all structure and leadership.

The problem is North have some smart people in their footy department who are looking at ways to use cap space and list spots creatively. Front loading deals, buying cheap on Stephenson, grabbing Young from the dogs. 

1 hour ago, buck_nekkid said:

Goody was told by Pert to build a gameplan that played to our strengths.  If TMAC is up to scratch, then lets see Goody’s genius emerge!

Goody's genius? ffs, what are u smoking?

Goody has shown the last couple of years that he has no idea.

And as [censored] as McDonald has been  obviously a fit McDonald is a hell of a lot better than Jackson. Also a hell of a lot better than Weideman. So if McDonald is slimmed down and fit and gets his speed back he leapdrogs everyone.

Edited November 12, 20204 yr by Dr.D

I'm hoping that he stays and there's not a last minute fire sale like in 2012.

Hopefully he can get a new lease on life over the preseason, get his body right, drop some pounds and move down back again.
This would completely free up Lever and offer May to play a more attacking role as well.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Turner said:

it makes u wonder why we were so eager to recontract smith when now tmac is going to be around as swing depth particularly prior to the list number announcement too

Ithought Smith contract at the time was a very poor decision

1 minute ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I'm hoping that he stays and there's not a last minute fire sale like in 2012.

Hopefully he can get a new lease on life over the preseason, get his body right, drop some pounds and move down back again.
This would completely free up Lever and offer May to play a more attacking role as well.

 

 

and if he doesnt? We have to find 1.4 million in a time of budget pressure

I'm all for the fire sale bring it on!

On 10/31/2020 at 4:46 PM, Hardley Benial said:

Great, I say we need to keep Tom Mc.

We get in BB who takes FF. Tom Mc can be used forward or back as injuries & form decide.

At 28 he is at the peak of his career. I trust Burgo to get him back to 2018 fitness.

Clarry & Trac need to be signed during 2021 and will need good coin. List management is complex and I admit I don't know the $'s. But I know the heart and soul of this man.

BTW if we go deep into the finals next year, the guys will want to stay & others come.

We need to keep Tom

Sorry to quote myself, but now it seems evident that Tom will be staying. As others has been pointed out he is training hard (like everyone should be) but focused on losing some weight.

I trust Burgo to get him cherry ripe.

And I agree he's fourth tall in-line for the forward half. So I'm hoping he returns to defence (in place of O Mac).

As injuries & form dictate he may be needed at the pointy end.

He could be the big difference come September 21.

We need to keep Tom