CHANGES: Rd 14 vs St Kilda

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,332]

10 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Baker is the exact player we need in the side but for most of the year he's done nothing in the scratch matches but the last 2 matches seem promising. I wish they would do a report on every player for the demons that played. No mention of Bennell or Bedford. 

I think he like the Wagners and Bedford were ones that weren’t originally brought into the hub so has only recently become available.  

[binman 39,083]

On 8/22/2020 at 10:40 PM, titan_uranus said:

About 10 people have suggested it.

And with good reason.

But I also think it's unlikely Goodwin will drop him. Melksham is rated highly by Goodwin/the FD.

Suggested he should be dropped. And I'm one.

Noone suggesting he will be dropped. He won't.

[leave it to deever 16,172]

11 hours ago, Flower Magic said:

IN: Gawn, Rivers, Baker, Jones (if fit, if not then Hunt)

OUT: Preuss, Hannan, Pickett, Sparrow (inj)

Don't understand how anyone thinks Bennell is up to it based on his games in 2020. McDonald stays. He is slow, but he's quicker than Preuss! The fact that Melksham and Spargo hold their places reflects just how poor our forward line is.

Agree with most of this except Spargo. Bloke has played 2 very good games out of a grand total of 3 for the year. Give him some sort of chance. We have given others far more leniency.

Edited August 23, 2020 by leave it to deever

[Kent 2,626]

18 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

In   Joel Smith         Out     T Mac
In   Toby Bedford     Out   Charlie Spargo
In   Max Gawn          Out    Preusss
In   Trent Rivers        Out   Harmes
In    Harley bennell    Out  Sparrow

Lucky -  Hibberd, Hanna, AVB, Melksham
 

Jones not ready if he hurt his quad.   Joel Smith to play forward where he belongs.

 

B        Jay Lockhart            Steven  May            Michael Hibberd
HB     Trent Rivers              Adam Tomlinson     Jake Lever
C         Ed Langdon              Clayton Oliver         Harley Bennell
HF      Bayley Fritsch           Joel Smith              Christian Petracca
F         Toby Bedford           Sam Weideman       Kysaiah Pickett
R         Max Gawn                Angus Brayshaw     Jack VIney

Bench   Christian Salem    Mitch Hannan    Aaron Vandenberg   Jake Melksham
 

Whats the deal with Smith, Never really seen him play 

or he was underwhelming cant be our saviour

[buck_nekkid 5,553]

10 minutes ago, Kent said:

Whats the deal with Smith, Never really seen him play 

or he was underwhelming cant be our saviour

When I see things like ‘bring in Smith’ or ‘move May to the forward line’ it confirms that we are feeling desperate and have lost faith.  You would think the club has plans and an understanding of players capabilities and development needs (holding Weids back until he sorted his presentation and marking), but after what we see, we have no trust.  So instead, supporters are left to make up ‘Hail Mary’s’ of ideas in the hope that something will fix this crapola we are delivering.

i am not a fan of these- maybe a little in game to change things up is ok.  I would rather see the players decide how much it means to them and actually follow the system.  Set up, run hard both ways, be ferocious.  Not the ‘let’s outrun them’ that they tried on the weekend, and will give us a 50 point loss against the improved saints.

if you are not going to bleed for the jumper, then out you go.

 

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

Apart from the obvious changes, or any matchup selections, give the same group a crack at redemption.

[DeePressed 114]

Will need changes with injuries b

Certain players having bad games are sometimes a symptom rather than the cause of a loss. Especially forward line. Dogs had 8 midfielders we had 5. Their wings and HF's or HB's all worked as a unit, ours did not. We also missed opportunities in front of goal in the 3rd which could have stopped that momentum and given us a slimmer deficit to chase in the last.

I thought Bulldogs defended very well and took all their opportunities. 

We lost the midfield battle, weren't able to spread and weren't ready for their ability to run and play checkers basically. Outclassed and outcoached. Coach's needed to sacrifice Spargo, Melksham or Hannan to play more of a mid role to even up the numbers rather than trying to play their zone in behind role. zero output after half time. Chuck Kozi in the middle for a bit. At least he's unpredictable. Hannan in for Jones probably upset the system a bit the Sparrow went down. 

Gawn back will fix alot of this IMO, hopefully will get the mids back on their toes and not on their heels. 

Our backline is heavy with left foot rebounders and are too easy to defend against. Rivers needs to come back. He runs towards the goals and breaks the lines and can penetrate.  Hibberd runs sideways on his left and doesn't penetrate. Likewise with Salem at times also when under pressure does his dinky kicks.

Harmes and Tomlinson aren't natural defenders, this was exposed. not their fault when the ball is coming in repeatedly. I'm still a believer that Oscar plays. Even if he spuds it up at times. This benefits the other 5 defenders by allowing May and Lever to plays at their best.

 

In: Gawn, Rivers, Oscar

Out: Preuss, Hibberd, Sparrow

 

Lockhart Oscar Lever

Salem May Harmes

Langdon Viney Rivers

Melksham TMac Spargo

Pickett Weid Fritsch

Gawn Trac Oliver

AVB Brayshaw Tomlinson Hannan

 

 

 

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,562]

In my mind Rivers has to come in.

I'm not sure why he is continuously dropped, however in almost every game he has played he's been a solid contributor.

He is quick and has good foot skills, one thing we are crying out for.

Given the team had 3 solid performances in a row, I wouldn't be making too many changes.

Ins: Gawn, & Rivers

Outs: Preuss & Hannan

[spirit of norm smith 13,409]

1 minute ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Apart from the obvious changes, or any matchup selections, give the same group a crack at redemption.

That means Gawn and Rivers 

Sparrow and Preuss out  

Hannan and Vandenburg and Kozzy will be lucky and Spargo relieved. 
 

Love to see Bennell and Baker and Bedford given the chances to show their pace. 

[old55 21,634]

In: Gawn, Rivers, Jordon (if available)

Out: Preuss, Sparrow, Spargo (if Jordon is available)

I'd move AVB from the wing to the forward line to increase our tackling pressure there. And I'd move any one of Hannan, Melksham or Fritsch to the wing - I can make a case for each of them: they are all strong overhead and therefore can provide a target and all can deliver well inside 50.

I'd move Viney forward for a significant amount of gametime and I would backfill his and Sparrow's midfield minutes with Harmes.  If you want to see what Viney can bring inside 50 look at 2:27 in the highlights video:

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/799313/rd-13-match-highlights?videoId=799313&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1598080461001

As above, I'd move Harmes into the midfield to backfill Viney and Sparrow and bring in Rivers to the back 7.

If Jordon is available (he wasn't mentioned in the Scratch match vs St.Kilda) I'd bring him in for Spargo because I think he may offer more midfield depth grunt and I already have 7 forwards with Weed, TMac, AVB, Viney, Pickett and 2 of Hannan, Melksham or Fritsch.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Pollyanna

[Deemania since 56 6,237]

19 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

In   Joel Smith         Out     T Mac
In   Toby Bedford     Out   Charlie Spargo
In   Max Gawn          Out    Preusss
In   Trent Rivers        Out   Harmes
In    Harley bennell    Out  Sparrow

Lucky -  Hibberd, Hanna, AVB, Melksham
 

Jones not ready if he hurt his quad.   Joel Smith to play forward where he belongs.

 

B        Jay Lockhart            Steven  May            Michael Hibberd
HB     Trent Rivers              Adam Tomlinson     Jake Lever
C         Ed Langdon              Clayton Oliver         Harley Bennell
HF      Bayley Fritsch           Joel Smith              Christian Petracca
F         Toby Bedford           Sam Weideman       Kysaiah Pickett
R         Max Gawn                Angus Brayshaw     Jack VIney

Bench   Christian Salem    Mitch Hannan    Aaron Vandenberg   Jake Melksham
 

As good as it gets, I'm afraid. Stronger, just analysing the selections/positions. 

[binman 39,083]

2 hours ago, DeePressed said:

Will need changes with injuries b

Certain players having bad games are sometimes a symptom rather than the cause of a loss. Especially forward line. Dogs had 8 midfielders we had 5. Their wings and HF's or HB's all worked as a unit, ours did not. We also missed opportunities in front of goal in the 3rd which could have stopped that momentum and given us a slimmer deficit to chase in the last.

I thought Bulldogs defended very well and took all their opportunities. 

We lost the midfield battle, weren't able to spread and weren't ready for their ability to run and play checkers basically. Outclassed and outcoached. Coach's needed to sacrifice Spargo, Melksham or Hannan to play more of a mid role to even up the numbers rather than trying to play their zone in behind role. zero output after half time. Chuck Kozi in the middle for a bit. At least he's unpredictable. Hannan in for Jones probably upset the system a bit the Sparrow went down. 

Gawn back will fix alot of this IMO, hopefully will get the mids back on their toes and not on their heels. 

Our backline is heavy with left foot rebounders and are too easy to defend against. Rivers needs to come back. He runs towards the goals and breaks the lines and can penetrate.  Hibberd runs sideways on his left and doesn't penetrate. Likewise with Salem at times also when under pressure does his dinky kicks.

Harmes and Tomlinson aren't natural defenders, this was exposed. not their fault when the ball is coming in repeatedly. I'm still a believer that Oscar plays. Even if he spuds it up at times. This benefits the other 5 defenders by allowing May and Lever to plays at their best.

 

In: Gawn, Rivers, Oscar

Out: Preuss, Hibberd, Sparrow

 

Lockhart Oscar Lever

Salem May Harmes

Langdon Viney Rivers

Melksham TMac Spargo

Pickett Weid Fritsch

Gawn Trac Oliver

AVB Brayshaw Tomlinson Hannan

 

 

 

Great post DP. 

I agree with all of it and pretty much your suggested changes.

I think Hibberd has to stay. Didn't have great game but has been terrific for weeks now. 

As is so often the case  it is the medium forwards who cause us problems. They play Wallis almost as a traditional out of the square full forward. And we just could not get the match up right. 

Wallis was too strong and smart for for Lockhart and we ended up having to play Hibberd. Hibberd is not brilliant one on one, and Wallis is and playing him deep negated his strengths (rebounding off HB). A big win for Bevo

Goodwin's hands were tied a bit because he couldn't use May (who would have both the nous and speed to beat Wallis) because neither Tomlinson or Lever could take Naughton.

I'd move Tomlinson to the wing to take Jones' role (who will come out you'd think) and bring Omac back in for that deep defenders role.

Sparrow is out obviously and like you i'd bring in Rivers. Not sure about the other in. Maybe Hunt for some run? 

Edited August 24, 2020 by binman

[drdrake 3,052]

Moving the same players to different positions won't improve our side, you might get 1-2 games of positive but essentially the same underlying issues will re-appear.

Forget

Viney to Forward line

Harmes to Tagger

Tmac to Defense

Lockhart to Forward

Bandaid moves, lets see what is on our list.  Bedford, Rivers, Jordan, Chandler, Baker and get games into Bennell, no more Wagners, Hunt they deliver more if the same as what we have in at the moment.

Preuss can't play forward, Weiderman is better closer to goals if you play Preuss and Gawn this forces Weiderman up the ground.  This is the issue with Tmac, he is better as our deep forward he is lost up the ground that is why Jackson and Weiderman work well, Jackson needs to be running and offers more up the ground than deep forward.

Give Jones the week off keep him for our cairns games.

My team

Lockhart May Tomlinson

Hibbard Lever Salem

Langdon Oliver AVB

Petracca Hannan Melksham

Pickett Weiderman Fritsch

Gawn, Brayshaw, Viney

Rivers, Bedford, Tmac, Jordan

 

[DeePressed 114]

4 minutes ago, binman said:

Great post DP. 

I agree with all of it and pretty much your suggested changes.

I think Hibberd has to stay. Didn't have great game but has been terrific for weeks now.  As is so often the case  it is the medium forwards who cause us problems. They play Wallis as almost traditional out of the square full forward. And we just could not get the match up right. 

Wallis was too strong and smart for for Lockhardt and we ended up having to play hibberd. Hibberd is not brilliant one on one, and Wallis is and playing him deep negated his strengths (rebounding off HB). A big win for Bevo

Goodwin's and were tied a bit because he couldn't use May (who would have both the nous and speed to beat Wallis) because neither Tomlinson or lever couldn't take Naughton.

I'd move Tomlinson to the wing to take Jones' role (who will come out you'd think) and bring Omac back in for that deep defenders role.

Sparrow is out obviously and like you i'd bring in Rivers. Not sure about the other in. Maybe Hunt for some run? 

I'd like to try Tomlinson back on a wing which is what he was recruited for, he can also play as an inside mid at stoppages to allow Oliver and Trac to get on the outside. He can also be a tall target on kick ins and switching play.

[jumbo returns 6,545]

I am now of the firm belief that TMac is either playing sore, or he's finished - cottonwool for 2021 or delist

Thus, Brown (there, I said it) or Smith come into the team

Hibberd bleeds too many goals and needs to go - many teams play through to his man, knowing that Hibberd is loose

Rivers/Jetta in that role

Tomlinson? Oh dear....mebbe look at Dunkley?

Controversial one...Fritsch...misses too many clutch goals - Harmes to play forward

Thank our lucky saints that Gawn will be back (phew!)

[picket fence 15,550]

1 hour ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Apart from the obvious changes, or any matchup selections, give the same group a crack at redemption.

How many chances do you give to obvious downhill skiers?? Season on the line its time for a shake up!

I'll submit a team shortly! T Mac, Fritsch, Spargo, Melksham, Kysiah all on slivers of Ice!

Edited August 24, 2020 by picket fence

[Tom Dyson 1,532]

A couple of Demonlanders have said that Goody has favourites which could very well be true however I don't really think he does.

however, if Harmes gets a game this week, something is up. On his form, he should have been out of the side a couple of games ago. 

At the moment, he literally offers nothing imo. He's not being used as a tagger which i think we all would agree is when he plays his best footy. he has to get dropped this week. 

I really want to see young jordan get a go in his place. 

[picket fence 15,550]

Just now, Tom Dyson said:

A couple of Demonlanders have said that Goody has favourites which could very well be true however I don't really think he does.

however, if Harmes gets a game this week, something is up. On his form, he should have been out of the side a couple of games ago. 

At the moment, he literally offers nothing imo. He's not being used as a tagger which i think we all would agree is when he plays his best footy. he has to get dropped this week. 

I really want to see young jordan get a go in his place. 

FACT Goodwin is playing Harmes OUT OF POSITION

FACT Harmes Best position is tagger/hff

FACT WHY CAN WE ALL SEE IT AND GOODWIN CANNOT?????

[Turner 1,483]

OUT: Sparrow, Preuss, Hannan, AVB, TMac

IN: Bennell, Gawn, Bedford, Rivers, Brown

with Harmes to take that midfield role off Sparrow and a genuine small forward in Bedford a better option than the marking type Hannan. Wouldnt be surprised if Jetta comes in as well as rivers maybe instead of a bennell type due to st kildas speed in Fwd half

 

 

[drdrake 3,052]

1 minute ago, picket fence said:

FACT Goodwin is playing Harmes OUT OF POSITION

FACT Harmes Best position is tagger/hff

FACT WHY CAN WE ALL SEE IT AND GOODWIN CANNOT?????

Fact on current form Harmes no matter what position he plays shouldn't be in the side.  OK the coach is trying to make him something he isn't, if that is the role the club has him pinned for and he can't execute that role bring someone in that can. 

[Demon17 4,638]

3 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

When I see things like ‘bring in Smith’ or ‘move May to the forward line’ it confirms that we are feeling desperate and have lost faith.  You would think the club has plans and an understanding of players capabilities and development needs (holding Weids back until he sorted his presentation and marking), but after what we see, we have no trust.  So instead, supporters are left to make up ‘Hail Mary’s’ of ideas in the hope that something will fix this crapola we are delivering.

i am not a fan of these- maybe a little in game to change things up is ok.  I would rather see the players decide how much it means to them and actually follow the system.  Set up, run hard both ways, be ferocious.  Not the ‘let’s outrun them’ that they tried on the weekend, and will give us a 50 point loss against the improved saints.

if you are not going to bleed for the jumper, then out you go.

 

I agree with the above but think back to the GWS/Dogs final last year where Cameron unveiled the strategy to deal with Bontimpelli.

Ignore history at your peril - as Goodwin did last Saturday. This is the big weakness in game day work. Its not shuffling players around, its the coaches box actually earning their pay.

The Bont is far superior to any of our midfield and a main key to the Dogs. Have a plan to deal with him for God's sake.

A 243 page and counting thread on Goodwin 'being the right guy'  says it all IMO - and Bont gets 9 coaches votes as a result.

And I consider Ratten a far superior coach to Cameron - scary for this week.

[Tom Dyson 1,532]

1 minute ago, picket fence said:

FACT Goodwin is playing Harmes OUT OF POSITION

FACT Harmes Best position is tagger/hff

FACT WHY CAN WE ALL SEE IT AND GOODWIN CANNOT?????

Great point, but if goodwin is refusing to play him as a tagger, then he certainly shouldnt be played as a half-back flanker, winger, half forward flank. there are better people for those spots. therefore, harmes must go. 

[Demon3 2,541]

our grid or zone works well when you play against a side that is poorly skilled and turnsitover by foot.. The bulldogs have dome the same thing to us 4 years ina  row, run, HB through us, spread and find loose men in FWD 50. It was absolutely horrid the level of coaching and planning for that. Dont care what anyone says, come at me all you like, but the coaches have to be better than that. THATS THERE JOB!

Tom mC is a shadow of his former self, would prefer Smith in that role, better athlete, wont let players run past him.. has to go.

Harmes is a deadset liability at the moment.. he fumbles, he does not get involved.. he offers nothing. Rivers in for him.

Pruess will go if Max is ready. Would keep Hannan, i believe in him as a footballer, he is abetter player that Melksham. If Melksham is in the side for his leadership and his kicking, then we are not getting enough from both. Kicking into the man on the mark is u/12 stuff. giving away 50s... its simply not good enough from him.. he can hardly run.

 

[BScotti 113]

1. Gawn in for Preuss; 2. Rivers in for Sparrow (Harmes forward/tag); 3.Bedford in for Spargo; 4. Hunt in for Hannan

 

[Demon3 2,541]

Spargo plays well when teh team plays well, when they kick it long and move it quickly.. he reads it pretty well. He was not alone on the weekend,   do we rest Kozzie, his good is electric obviously, his bad though is consistent with a young fwd pocket.. its hard position for him.. tough one, keep him in and give him experience or keep him in and dent his confidence with little involvement.. not that he lacks confidence i don t think.. probably need his pace against the saints.

 Bennell should be played at some stage again soon, probably not this week and should be across half back or wing for a couple weeks.. give him some confidence