CHANGES: Rd 14 vs St Kilda

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

18 minutes ago, Older demon said:

Sparrow with a busted wing is out and we will be playing off a 5 day break so some may need to be rested  given we front up for the next game 4 days later. The Saints have a 4 day break so maybe that will help us. 

We have a 7 day break (game is next Saturday night); Saints 6 day break. 

 

[Return to Glory 8,441]

We're not in a position to  drop Salem but, to be honest, I wish we were.

I listened to the game rather than watch it. I then looked at a few highlights (or lowlights in Salem's case) For mine, there were at least a couple of instances where he had a chance to impact a contest and just didn't. The most galling was when a Bulldog player ran forward and had a shot for goal with Salem trailing behind seemingly in a jog. 

It's easy to look at clips out of context but it certainly wasn't 'put it all out there' stuff. Maybe I'm being unfair.

[Deemania since 56 6,636]

18 hours ago, adonski said:

Sparrow out with Jones back in will sort the outside run issues ?

Sort some of these, at least, we could expect. We needed Jones' on-field drive today - setting a competitive example albeit slower than previously in his career. He is still one of the best evasive, pack-departing ball carriers.

[Deemania since 56 6,636]

6 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

We're not in a position to  drop Salem but, to be honest, I wish we were.

I listened to the game rather than watch it. I then looked at a few highlights (or lowlights in Salem's case) For mine, there were at least a couple of instances where he had a chance to impact a contest and just didn't. The most galling was when a Bulldog player ran forward and had a shot for goal with Salem trailing behind seemingly in a jog. 

It's easy to look at clips out of context but it certainly wasn't 'put it all out there' stuff. Maybe I'm being unfair.

Salem tends to slip under the radar quite a bit, this season. He does not really like a contest - be it physical or tackling opportunity. I'd reckon that his actual contribution has been minimal, as well. Sure, he can kick beautifully but his number of actual possessions is not quite what one might expect - this suggests that he needs to do more in order to win possessions. He also needs some readiness to play on rather than delay (a free, for example) and telegraph to the opposition his intended kick. I do not see Salem as a backman, although I concede that wiser heads so often do regard his backline work. Needs to be more active in the defensive gathering of the ball and its distribution. 

[Return to Glory 8,441]

3 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Salem tends to slip under the radar quite a bit, this season. He does not really like a contest - be it physical or tackling opportunity. I'd reckon that his actual contribution has been minimal, as well. Sure, he can kick beautifully but his number of actual possessions is not quite what one might expect - this suggests that he needs to do more in order to win possessions. He also needs some readiness to play on rather than delay (a free, for example) and telegraph to the opposition his intended kick. I do not see Salem as a backman, although I concede that wiser heads so often do regard his backline work. Needs to be more active in the defensive gathering of the ball and its distribution. 

Spot on. He is rarely in a 'who do we drop' conversation. There's a fine line between looking laconic and just being passive. He's become a passive footballer. 

[cantstandyasam 700]

18 hours ago, adonski said:

Sparrow out with Jones back in will sort the outside run issues ?

Jones has lost whatever pace he had and is injured, I'd rather they try Jordon.

[monoccular 17,428]

59 minutes ago, Older demon said:

Sparrow with a busted wing is out and we will be playing off a 5 day break so some may need to be rested  given we front up for the next game 4 days later. The Saints have a 4 day break so maybe that will help us. My concern is that in the Dogs exploited us with the switch and fast transition and that the the Saints will murder us because that is their bread and butter game style.Lets hope the coaching staff are quick to come up with a solution to this.

The backline is pretty settled except for Harmes who is out of sorts and probably out of position.. If not dropped he replaces Sparrow and Rivers comes in. Gawn in for Preuss and Mac is the backup ruckman and I doubt Jones will get up so soon with quad tightness. Look to the emergencies for who will come in. They were Mitch Brown, Mitch Hannan, Trent Rivers and Joel Smith. No real outside runners in this group

Out Sparrow Preuss

In Gawn, Rivers

I admire your optimism but haven't seen much evidence over the past couple of years to feel that they will be able to (a) identify the problem and (b) rectify it.  

[Demon17 5,188]

16 hours ago, chook fowler said:

Ratten will wipe the floor with Goodwin 

This is what worries me most. Ratten this week. Then finishing off against Cameron Longmuir Longmire .

The bombers dont matter as it may be over by then.

Real test of the coaching box coming up.

[cantstandyasam 700]

25 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

Spot on. He is rarely in a 'who do we drop' conversation. There's a fine line between looking laconic and just being passive. He's become a passive footballer. 

I wish they'd try Salem in the forward half. He is a good kick and that is what we lack there. Goodwin needs to stop playing him in the backline, we need more physical players there, until we do Salem is wasted and to a large degree ineffectual.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

Minimal changes. 

Gawn for Pruess.

Jones for Sparrow.

We didn't lose the game at the selection table. 

[buck_nekkid 5,858]

We have to win this one, so it makes it hard to make the deep cuts that would teach a few that if they want a spot, they have to do better.  

Preuss - couldn’t tap to advantage against a midfielder.  WTF? 16 cm advantage and half of his hits went to doggies on the outside.  If Max is available, he comes in.

Sparrow - busted wing.  You would think this is the opportunity to get Harmes into this role and put Rivers back.

Hannan - a half forward with no pressure.  At least Jones would have done more. maybe this is what gives JJ his chance?  Or do they just roll in Jones if he pulls up OK?

A few need a kick in the trousers.  Kozzie for his tackling style (pushing kickers forward giving downfield frees), Spargo (get involved), the midfield (sort it out!) TMAC (mark it, son!), Frittata (goal kicking).

Put the acid on them to play the game on its system, not think they can cruise. Saints would have watched that and be drawing up plans already

[rjay 24,925]

On 3/24/2019 at 3:31 PM, rjay said:

Tommy Mac worries me, he's had a good season as a forward but has been very average as of late.

History shows he had a really good season and a bit as a defender then dropped off dramatically.

Let's hope it's just an aberration and he's up and firing again soon but the trend is remarkably similar.

Is Tommy getting ahead of himself or have the opposition worked him?

A big call but maybe Tommy could do with some Casey time with his brother?

From my topic back in early 2019...

I think he should have been dropped back then.

Most, including our FD lived in hope.

It was false hope.

[forever demons 2,220]

Tmac must go out cant take a mark and slow bring in brown he must be given a chance.Jones in for the bird,bedford in pickett.Goodwin to give the rest a rocket

[Lucifers Hero 39,784]

tbh I don't think there are changes that will give us a win next week.

Bulldogs scored a lot of goals (6? maybe...) from turnovers yesterday.  In a Ratten coached saints team in July 2019 they scored 12 goals from turnovers.  Our defence is better this year but so is their midfield and they are even better at spreading from the contest than last year.

Our coaches know what the saints will bring.  Re-watching last year's game will refresh memories.  Hope they are ready this time and not tell us after the game that the saints came in with a plan that we weren't able to counter or that we will be ready next time.  Heard those old chestnut too many times already this year.

If we can't stop the turnovers we are toast.  The answer is not player changes as we don't really have the right sort of player to bring in.  It will be better skills, better composure, more effort, better set-ups/structures around the ground and last but not least better coaching 

Doubt that we can do all that. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Roger Mellie 4,024]

A forward line with Bennell, Melksham and Fritsch would result in forward pressure somewhere between zero and token.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

I want to see Joel Smith replace T Mac in the forward line.    We lost Luke Jackson and replaced him with a slow, lumbering McDonald and it just looks terrible.

We need to get back some of the athleticism and unpredictability that LJ gave us in forward 50 as the foil to Weid.    I am not saying Smith is as good as LJ obviously but hes the closest thing we have as far as leap and ability to get to contests.

[DubDee 25,862]

T Mac was not great yesterday but the delivery inside 50 was horrible. He took two contested marks and kicked a goal. Enough to keep his spot. 

We need to address the lack of run and spread and getting the ball out if congestion. Gawn coming back will make a big difference 

[Deemania since 56 6,636]

1 hour ago, cantstandyasam said:

I wish they'd try Salem in the forward half. He is a good kick and that is what we lack there. Goodwin needs to stop playing him in the backline, we need more physical players there, until we do Salem is wasted and to a large degree ineffectual.

That tally of '...being wasted in the backline...' on Goodwin's credit sheet affects the careers of two possible key players: Salem and Harmes. Meanwhile, Hunt is degenerating on the wooden plank, Smith has to sit to watch TMac stuff up continuously and several possible hot rockets with the pace of youth champ at the bit in readiness for an opportunity for which they are working very hard with immense patience. This list of poor management can easily be extended - to make matters worse - whereby effective players deteriorate out of position, out of favour and out of prudent development. 

 

[Deemania since 56 6,636]

41 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

I want to see Joel Smith replace T Mac in the forward line.    We lost Luke Jackson and replaced him with a slow, lumbering McDonald and it just looks terrible.

We need to get back some of the athleticism and unpredictability that LJ gave us in forward 50 as the foil to Weid.    I am not saying Smith is as good as LJ obviously but hes the closest thing we have as far as leap and ability to get to contests.

Smith is hungry ... talented ... under-developed ... ready. Goodwin, give him a go! TMac ain't the answer any more. Just because the McDonald brothers are taller than you, SG, as Coach, you should not be scared to give them the advice to move on.

 

[Deespicable 2,726]

The season is on the line - it's not the time for experiments, so no Jordan or Bedford please.

We also can't continue to go with our two tiny small forwards - Pickett and Spargo - rotate them by all means over the next few weeks but as we saw against Dogs, it doesn't work having both of them crumbing and as eager as they are, they don't provide power or aerial presence. We got away with it against Pies because they were spent on four-day break. One crumbing small is enough. Pickett in Alice, Spargo against Swans.

A decision is required on T.Mac and whether his lack of pace (and confidence now) will be exposed again. Brown is the option and he leads up well so I'm happy if we go down that track. Happy for us to consider retaining Preuss instead of Brown, given Gawny is coming back and given the Saints are playing two rucks. 

Alice Springs is the right game to play Bennell. It is amazing how the indigenous players lift there.

Size of Saints (Ryder, Marshall, Battle, King, Membrey, Howard, Wilkie) means that we have to have a back-up for our bigs just in case one gets injured - hence Joel Smith's flexibility wins him the spot ahead of Rivers.

Final choice is between Hannan and Hunt. I'd prefer Hunt's added pace.

Out: Sparrow (inj), T.Mac, Spargo, Hannan, Preuss

In: Bennell, Brown, J.Smith, Hunt, Gawn

[DemonOX 8,791]

20 hours ago, Nelo said:

Why don’t they revert back to playing Harmes as a tagger? Seemed to work. 

Because that would mean that Goodwin would need to make a change on game day and that’s not his style. 
 

I have lost count the number of posters who have said this me included. 

[titan_uranus 25,018]

35 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

The season is on the line - it's not the time for experiments, so no Jordan or Bedford please.

We also can't continue to go with our two tiny small forwards - Pickett and Spargo - rotate them by all means over the next few weeks but as we saw against Dogs, it doesn't work having both of them crumbing and as eager as they are, they don't provide power or aerial presence. We got away with it against Pies because they were spent on four-day break. One crumbing small is enough. Pickett in Alice, Spargo against Swans.

A decision is required on T.Mac and whether his lack of pace (and confidence now) will be exposed again. Brown is the option and he leads up well so I'm happy if we go down that track. Happy for us to consider retaining Preuss instead of Brown, given Gawny is coming back and given the Saints are playing two rucks. 

Alice Springs is the right game to play Bennell. It is amazing how the indigenous players lift there.

Size of Saints (Ryder, Marshall, Battle, King, Membrey, Howard, Wilkie) means that we have to have a back-up for our bigs just in case one gets injured - hence Joel Smith's flexibility wins him the spot ahead of Rivers.

Final choice is between Hannan and Hunt. I'd prefer Hunt's added pace.

Out: Sparrow (inj), T.Mac, Spargo, Hannan, Preuss

In: Bennell, Brown, J.Smith, Hunt, Gawn

Not the time for experiments...but you want to play Smith?

[Macca 16,967]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

tbh I don't think there are changes that will give us a win next week.

Bulldogs scored a lot of goals (6? maybe...) from turnovers yesterday.  In a Ratten coached saints team in July 2019 they scored 12 goals from turnovers.  Our defence is better this year but so is their midfield and they are even better at spreading from the contest than last year.

Our coaches know what the saints will bring.  Re-watching last year's game will refresh memories.  Hope they are ready this time and not tell us after the game that the saints came in with a plan that we weren't able to counter or that we will be ready next time.  Heard those old chestnut too many times already this year.

If we can't stop the turnovers we are toast.  The answer is not player changes as we don't really have the right sort of player to bring in.  It will be better skills, better composure, more effort, better set-ups/structures around the ground and last but not least better coaching 

Doubt that we can do all that. 

I'm not sure we can match St Kida if they bring their best unless ... we win the tap outs,  win possession from the taps to advantage,  win the clearances in 50/50 situations and then use the ball well when we have possession.

Across half back and the back half of the midfield we also need to win the ball back as often as possible ... and again,  use the ball well when we get hold of it. 

And the forward line needs to fire ... 2 marking targets would help enormously but Weideman can't be totally relied on as a prominent key whilst T-Mac is out of form.

We'll need a number of things to go our way to win the game.

[P-man 13,366]

Out: Preuss, T Mac, Spargo, Harmes, Sparrow

In: Gawn, Brown, Hunt, Bedford, Jones 

Would love to bring in a player of Benell’s quality but when defending the ground is the question he isn’t the answer.

Hunt is a must inclusion for me which may seem strange but we need his speed and hunger in the forward half.

Melksham read the riot act. Another week of that rubbish and he can go.

[titan_uranus 25,018]

15 minutes ago, Macca said:

I'm not sure we can match St Kida if they bring their best unless ... we win the tap outs,  win possession from the taps to advantage,  win the clearances in 50/50 situations and then use the ball well when we have possession.

Across half back and the back half of the midfield we also need to win the ball back as often as possible ... and again,  use the ball well when we get hold of it. 

And the forward line needs to fire ... 2 marking targets would help enormously but Weideman can't be totally relied on as a prominent key whilst T-Mac is out of form.

We'll need a number of things to go our way to win the game.

The three keys IMO are getting on top in the middle, being efficient in our forward 50, and pressuring them in our back half before they get out.

If they get on top in the middle, we won't score enough to win.

If we waste our chances forward of centre and turn it over, they'll destroy us on transition.

And if we don't pressure them from their kick ins, they'll waltz out of the backline like the Dogs.

We're capable of winning this, but in all likelihood we won't be able to do all of this at once.

5 minutes ago, P-man said:

Out: Preuss, T Mac, Spargo, Harmes, Sparrow

In: Gawn, Brown, Hunt, Bedford, Jones 

Would love to bring in a player of Benell’s quality but when defending the ground is the question he isn’t the answer.

Hunt is a must inclusion for me which may seem strange but we need his speed and hunger in the forward half.

Melksham read the riot act. Another week of that rubbish and he can go.

Hunt, Bedford and Jones all in, but Harmes out. Who's taking Harmes' rotation in the back half?

If you're going to drop Harmes and Spargo, I'd suggest only two of these three forwards come in, and Rivers gets the other spot.