POSTGAME: Rd 13 vs Western Bulldogs

[titan_uranus 25,043]

11 minutes ago, No Plan B said:

Incredibly disappointing. I think at one stage in the third quarter they’d had 7 I50’s for 6 goals. Game over. 

I hope Melksham is made an example of in the review. He gave away one ridiculous 50m penalty, blatantly refused to put his body on the line in another marking contest, and allowed a shot at goal from 25m out to be touched by a Dogs midget. Simply not good enough from an experienced player and apparent leader.

May is absolutely incredible and yet it looks like another season for him where he won’t get to play in a final. He deserves better frankly. We are wasting his talent, just like the Suns did.

I mean, we could yet make it, but that would mean only losing one game from here. I have serious doubts. 

Looking forward to olisik, poita et al emerging after a few weeks in the wilderness. Yep olisik is already here on page 1. Almost as predictable as that performance... 

 

Yep, the worst.

1 minute ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

People thinking Goodwin’s coaching cost us really are clutching at straws or have agenda’s. That was a loss based on inadequate defensive run and not taking chances when they present. The same side did both well last week. We missed 4-6 high % goals and they made there’s. We played like an improving mid tier side who struggled with a higher level of pressure. We unsurprisingly were caught short for outside run which a lot of us had already said was a concern. Just need to reset and get the changes right next week otherwise outside run will catch us out once again.

The bolded bit is on coaching.

Beveridge's tactical decision to switch repeatedly was a good coaching move, with no counter offered by Goodwin.

We didn't slow it down in the third when we needed to. Also on the coaching.

We keep kicking to the pockets and boundary. Another coaching issue.

This isn't to excuse the players. Again, it's not either/or, it's both.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Hibberd’s worse game

[layzie 33,991]

Bang average effort from a bang average team. The running required is the standard not something you do when you feel like it. I can forgive skill errors bit not a lack of running, if you aren't willing to get cart your a*re off the ground from exhaustion at the end then go home. 

Outcoached, plain and simple. Dogs zone was setup well and was flexible and ours was stagnant. They switched and burned us every time. I don't want to hear numps like David King say how no-one wins a flag with plan B. No Einstein they don't but there is such thing as coaching and being able to adjust when a certain situation happens. And teams DO win a flag with that.

No forward pressure today, drop in this area 5% and our gameplan just doesn't work. Their midfield absolutely pantsed ours. Our mids might as well have gone up to the goal umpires for their white flags, take a flag each and wave it at every centre bounce. 

T-mac seriously just, whatever. Our forwards served up the lamb shanks today. By the way I don't understand why taking shots 45 metres out on 45 degree angles is a smart idea in windy blustery conditions. Harmes is just terrible lately. 

Get nicked.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Kozzie is a natural rover, Get him in the middle. as fast and better skills than Smith

[Adam The God 30,407]

You could tell we weren't on half way through the first quarter. Game over. That may have sounded melodramatic at the time, but you can tell when a team isn't switched on. May and Lever, the exception. 

The midfield was terrible, utterly hopeless defensively. We let them switch with ease all day and when our forwards don't lay tackles, we get murdered on the outside and in transition. Absolutely cut to ribbons. It's not the game plan's fault, it's not the deeper lying defenders' fault either, it's absolutely a midfield/forward issue. Far too much inconsistency and picking and choosing when to go to contests or spread and work hard.

I thought we'd play a bit more good footy before seeing a marked lapse, but not to be.

May and Lever a mile ahead of anyone else. The defence did okay all things considered.

Viney the hardest worker in our midfield, but a butcher of the footy. He's tough, he's a hard worker, but a dumb footballer, who IMV makes our midfield worse with his ball use. I counted 4 direct scores from his kicks pinging back the other way. Bleeds red and blue, blah, blah, he's a turnover merchant who thinks he's playing rugby half the time.

Oliver reverted to his quick handball game again in the second half too. I liked that he, Gus and Petracca were looking for the shorter options instead bombing away, but their skills let them down badly. Their refusal to work in transition was pathetic.

We got done so many times on the spread too. It was a very familiar loss in that respect. Quicker sides get us on the outside. If teams are prepared to spread harder and switch more than us we don't win. Simple as that.

Whereas, the Dogs' style is very similar to our 2018 style, they're a super aggressive pressing side, which we saw in the first half enabled us to get a bunch of goals out the back. We didn't exploit this nearly enough. Our team on its day is a far better team than what the Bulldogs are at their best. Deeply disappointing.

I'd say Petracca looked tired, but he's played a few of those sort of games this year. I can hear the commentators probably still salivating over his game, but did he have a single clean possession all day? Had 26 touches, but was truly ordinary to very poor. Even the basic handball to Weideman in the first missed the target by 5 metres, under no pressure. As Gary, rightly, kept banging on about.

I was wrong. I thought it had finally clicked for our midfield. But clearly still a work in progress.

We need to refresh the half forward line. Kozzie laid 5 tackles, but barely sighted in the first half when the game was on. I'd rest him if we had some pace to come in. Melksham should be dropped but won't be because when he's on, he's vital to our forward connection. But we have too many forwards who don't tackle. I've been on Fritsch about this. He and Melksham squibbed a few contests, not to mention Melksham's inexcusable 50 metre penalty. Hannan very little influence too. I'd bring Rivers in and shift Harmes forward as a pressure player and hopefully Jones is up for next week and we play him as another pressure forward.

Still reckon we'll play finals, but unless we shed the inconsistency, I have no faith we'll be able to do any damage whatsoever.

Edited August 22, 2020 by A F

[DeePressed 114]

A lot of soft arms going in for the pill today. 

Midfield again were flatfooted, i just don't get it. 

[Die Hard Demon 1,224]

1 minute ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

So the same as every other year for the last 40 years?

yep

[Demon_spurs 1,867]

I'm logging off, time to play Assassins Creed and take out some pent up aggression

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

Forwards and backs both had moments but the reality was especially in windy conditions where running the ball and breaking the game open is imperative we just don't have enough quality runners and ball users in the extended midfield group.

And I mean wings/half forward/half back although the centre square is where it's most exposed.

The Dogs backline has Daniel, Crozier, JJ and Bailey Williams who are all good ball users. We have May at times, what's left of Hibbo and then we ask Salem to do everything.

We do have some quality forward but Kossie and Spargo spend all game chasing because Fritsch and Melksham don't and if those two aren't kicking or creating goals they aren't helping. Plus there's no midfield rotation in any of that.

Then the midfield is obviously the biggest disaster where we just don't have the skill and run. And the total disaster today was the lack of transition defending. Completely inexcusable especially from kick outs.

[binman 43,757]

Lost it in the third when applied zero pressure on the ball carrier.

They showed their gee wiz pressure gauge late in that quarter. And we barely registered. Lyon said rhat was a result of not having the ball. Peanut. That's why we couldn't get the ball. Defensive running stopped and as I feared you don't pressure their ball carriers (any clubs really) they chop you up. And did.

[censored] poor leadership from melksham. That 50 was simply not on.

[Redleg 41,427]

12 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Not for the first or last time, a smart coach with a similar quality list has destroyed ours. It’s a bloody rinse and repeat story. 

You know what Jaded, the guy has lost me. He actually seems to have no idea of tactics and that you play differently depending on your opponents. To allow Preuss to just tap the ball down, when they are killing us at the clearance, is the height of stupidity. He was against a flanker a lot of the time and they won the clearances and then spread. Put Oliver or Petracca at CHF and smash it to them and you create a contest without Libba, MacRae, Bont, Hunter, Smith etc and you are closer to goal with one of your best players one out. Dogs are the best side at scoring from defence, so you don’t bomb it in. Guess what we did. I never see tactics. Why wasn’t Harmes on Bont.? We are so predictable and have no game tactics at all. I can’t see any real success with this Coach. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Redleg

[Gunna’s 2,104]

Our mids frustrate the hell out of me. It’s doesn’t matter if it’s Gawn Jackson or Pruess rucking and getting first use, our mids can’t get their hands on it, why?

I don’t know what Richardson bring but if the Dees need to save some coin I would [censored] him off. 
 

Our defensive pressure is not there week in week out. We allowed the dogs to walk the ball out of our forward line. 
 

We lost the game ourselves, but I’d like to know what the impact of the missed free kicks would be. Do the players drop their heads when clear frees are/aren’t paid. I know I get annoyed when things don’t go my way. I wonder if little voices get in their heads?

The fact Wallis kicked three and there were minimal changes made to make him accountable is poor coaching. the bont has it on a string often in the clear with no pressure, we have a tagger in harmes, why don’t we use him. The plan when rucking against dunkley was easy identified, drop at feet, this didn’t work once. 
All line coaches and Goodwin need to be held to account. 
 

thought sparrow was growing by the game. Hopefully it’s a collarbone break and not a shoulder

[titan_uranus 25,043]

Just now, A F said:

You could tell we weren't on half way through the first quarter. Game over. That may have sounded melodramatic at the time, but you can tell when a team isn't switched on. May and Lever, the exception. 

The midfield was terrible, utterly hopeless defensively. We let them switch with ease all day and when our forwards don't lay tackles, we get murdered on the outside and in transition. Absolutely cut to ribbons. It's not a game plan fault, it's not the deeper lying defenders' fault either, it's absolutely a midfield/forward issue. Far too much inconsistency and picking and choosing when to go to contests or spread and work hard.

I thought we'd play a bit more good footy before seeing a marked lapse, but not to be.

May and Lever a mile ahead of anyone else. The defence did okay all things considered.

Viney the hardest worker in our midfield, but a butcher of the footy. He's tough, he's a hard worker, but a dumb footballer, who IMV makes our midfield worse with his ball use. I counted 4 direct scores from his kicks pinging back the other way. Bleeds red and blue, blah, blah, he's a turnover merchant who thinks he's playing rugby half the time.

Oliver reverted to his quick handball game again in the second half too. I liked that he, Gus and Petracca were looking for the shorter options instead bombing away, but their skills let them down badly.

We got done so many times on the spread too. It was a very familiar loss in that respect. Quicker sides get us on the outside. If teams are prepared to spread harder and switch more than us we don't win. Simple as that.

Whereas, the Dogs' style is very similar to our 2018 style, they're a super aggressive pressing side, which we saw in the first half enabled us to get a bunch of goals out the back. We didn't exploit this nearly enough. Our team on its day is a far better team than what the Bulldogs are at their best. Deeply disappointing.

I'd say Petracca looked tired, but he's played a few of those sort of games this year. I can hear the commentators probably still salivating over his game, but did he have a single clean possession all day? Had 26 touches, but was truly ordinary to very poor. Even the basic handball to Weideman in the first missed the target by 5 metres, under no pressure. As Gary, rightly, kept banging on about.

I was wrong. I thought it had finally clicked for our midfield. But clearly still a work in progress.

We need to refresh the half forward line. Kozzie laid 5 tackles, but barely sighted in the first half when the game was on. I'd rest him if we had some pace to come in. Melksham should be dropped but won't be because when he's on, he's vital to our forward connection. But we have too many forwards who don't tackle. I've been on Fritsch about this. He and Melksham squibbed a few contests, not to mention Melksham's inexcusable 50 metre penalty. Hannan very little influence too. I'd bring Rivers in and shift Harmes forward as a pressure player and hopefully Jones is up for next week and we play him as another pressure forward.

Still reckon we'll play finals, but unless we shed the inconsistency, I have no faith we'll be able to do any damage whatsoever.

Agree with a lot of this, particularly Viney, but what's conspicuously absent is that Brayshaw was poor as well.

Brayshaw hasn't just had his poor form forced upon him by being played out of position. 

What frustrates me is that our four mids were being belted in the third, whilst Harmes was having no impact in the backline. Surely that was the time to try throwing Harmes into the middle?

[Return to Glory 8,448]

4 minutes ago, Die Hard Demon said:

IMO there are too many melbourne players that are content with receiving their pay checks. There’s not enough hurt or desire to be a hardened, successful side. We will always be a middle of the road team with this list, with a coach that rides the highs & lows with no killer instinct. 

I'm not sure if I'm being too harsh here but, for mine, Salem is a prime example of this. It's a case of 'statistics and damn lies' as you look at his numbers but they don't reflect the half - ar5ed efforts that I see 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

I am really over talk about forward pressure. What about forwards who get creative to win and dispose of the ball 

[Deemania since 56 6,716]

7 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I must have missed salems contribution

Yep, missed Salem's contribution as well. Get him out of the backline. Get Harmes out of the backline. 

[dl4e 5,851]

I have been watching a performance like today from the MFC for years. Typical. Beat up a few weak teams then play one roughly equal to us and we play like headless chooks. They are no better than us except in one area. Upstairs.

[demonique 314]

I’m a little concerned about Jake Lever. 
A couple of times he has  dodged the hard ball the past couple of matches . Today it appeared he ducked out of an on coming ball hotly pursued by 3 or 4 players , he was closer and had time to gather but he retreated mmm ?

[bing181 9,328]

Disposals: Spargo 4, Pickett 6, Hannan 6. And 1 goal (Spargo) between them.

At least Pickett laid 5 tackles, but therein lies the tale. The Dogs were constantly able to launch attacks off half-back based on our inability to get our hands on the ball up forward or lock it in.

Not sure what the solution is, but the cupboard is really bare. We haven't had a really damaging crumbing forward since Jeff Garlett was at his peak.

[Mel Bourne 4,534]

3 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Kozzie is a natural rover, Get him in the middle. as fast and better skills than Smith

Nah. He’s our next match-winning small forward. Stick to the plan. Let him learn. 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 minute ago, Return to Glory said:

I'm not sure if I'm being too harsh here but, for mine, Salem is a prime example of this. It's a case of 'statistics and damn lies' as you look at his numbers but they don't reflect the half - ar5ed efforts that I see 

Fiest bloke on the trade table for mine.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,233]

2 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

You're the one that said we shouldn't tag Bont.

How's that looking now?

Not tagging Bont did not cost us the game. A lack of defensive run particularly out of D50 and missing 5-6 gettable chances did. I still would not tag him. He is a good player and played a good game but that wasn’t the difference and I dont think a full negating role in our midfield serves us well. Who would you have do it and whose midfield time are you taking away for it? 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 minute ago, Mel Bourne said:

Nah. He’s our next match-winning small forward. Stick to the plan. Let him learn. 

We can disagree

[Greendale 350]

7 minutes ago, grazman said:

I think Lever and Salem were pretty good as well.  The only reason we weren't really belted. 

Don't want to be too critical as there were many worse players, but Lever didn't do much for me. Had multiple dropped marks where he had clean hands on the ball, one of which cost us a goal. As an intercepting defender it's his job to take these marks and I feel he crumbles under physical pressure.

[rufus 1,162]

Ultimately we may just have to accept that our list isn't great...and our strength (midfield) is probably somewhere around the 10th to 15th strongest in the comp ( which is where we will finish). Our best players are nowhere near as capable of consistent performance under pressure as the best players on the strong teams.

Anyway...thanks to the Port game we won't have to look back at getting taken to the cleaners by big bad bustling Mitch Wallis as the most embarassing thing we served up this season. Small mercies.