Craig Jennings Analysis of Dees Game Plan

[Tarax Club 2,984]

16 hours ago, Deesprate said:

Jennings also had a crack at Goodwin a few week ago about the (  ?  ) of pre season training camps. Said it reflected love of training but left the players disenfranchised...Goody seem to have a mantra my way or the highway.

Karo will be pleased...remember the highly publicised player led revolt re: repeat commando style training camp pre-season 2018? Bricks on the head etc.

Drew a lot of media heat at the time. Obscured but not quite buried by the finals surge at the year end.

The ‘noise’ will only be cancelled by some protracted flipping of the switch...

[Demons1858 1,661]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Wasn't that Jennings role? Strategy and opposition analyst

exactly. to me our game plan looks the same as last year ... output is also similar .. high inside 50 contested ball stats poor conversion

[Dr. Gonzo 22,467]

2 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

exactly. to me our game plan looks the same as last year ... output is also similar .. high inside 50 contested ball stats poor conversion

To play devils advocate - it may be that Goodwin was focused on implementing his gamestyle so didn't pay much heed to countering the opposition's tactics effectively sidelining Jennings

Just spitballing

[Skuit 9,181]

53 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

To play devils advocate - it may be that Goodwin was focused on implementing his gamestyle so didn't pay much heed to countering the opposition's tactics effectively sidelining Jennings

Just spitballing

I absolutely certainly think is this is the case to some extent. As mentioned above I also think Goodwin inherited this mind-set from Roos. Devise a game-plan that you think can beat the competition, drill it into the players so that once it clicks they will be way ahead of the game, and don't look back. Equals stubborn. Where does an opposition strategist fit within this schema? 

[Demon Dynasty 15,540]

17 hours ago, rjay said:

All good 'Pennant', I would rather see 2 of Clarrie, Brayshaw and Trac with Harmes as tagger where needed and Viney 5th option.

I think Viney clogs up the middle with poor decisions.

Tries to take too much on but hasn't got the skills, size or decision making to do it.

Clarrie, Brayshaw and Trac are more likely to give us the breakaway we need.

Rjay If you recall, much of our drive from roughly mid season 2018 that gave us our winning momentum into finals came once Gus and Harmes (to a lessor extent?) were switched into the middle on a more permanent basis as inside / outside players (Harmes in more of a run with role on occasions) vs inside (Viney & Chunk) with Viney still recovering and Chunk slowly being pushed to a wing (swing man off HB & HF also).

It was the addition of this inside/outside breakaway (clearing congestion more effectively more often) ability that played an important role in this momentum change imho.  In other words....there was no Viney, until he returned as a red hot tackling/clearing machine into finals which I'm sure helped on the big occasions adding an extra rotation and breathing room for the other mids to rest / recover in the two winning finals.

My gut feel now is similar to yours, Tracc & Gus play more time through the middle

Yes we already are but play them more to squeeze out mostly Viney and to a lessor degree Clarry (both playing bigger roles/time resting forward) AND also bring in Harmes as well to do same.

So getting us loosened up to more of an inside / outside bias mid field with better spread ability (a la the 2nd half of 2018) ....your three regular startimg mids should be...

1.  Tracc - bull inside / outside with reasonable finish coming inside 50 who can also drift forward and goal on occasions.  

2.  Harmes - As per Tracc just a slight cog down with average finish inside 50 but also a handy / solid run with who gut runs both ways.  

3.  Gus - Handy, albeit inconsistent, inside / outside clearance/link man with relatively poor disposal coming inside 50.  Rarely scores and not the greatest two way runner or run with option.

And four others in the regular rotation...

4.  Clarry - Plays mostly forward or starting bench and also relieves the above as required (approx 60/40 ish).

5.  Viney - As per Clarry but approx 70/30 ish and more time on the bench in order to ensure when he is on the field he has reserves in the tank to smack in hard on tackles, hitting contests hard and the ability to lose opponent on the burst when up forward (approx 70%  of time).  Moving into more of a specialist medium/small forward role taking on opp defenders to pressure for turnovers inside 50 and opportunist goals where possible.

6.  AVB - Similar to Viney (approx 70/30).  Both playing the same role off the bench.

7.  Melk - As per Viney & AVB but roughly 80/20 IF in form.  Given present form he is on the Fringe 22 imv and might be brought in if he has earned the call up and others above under perform / incur an injury.

Having the last four in the regular mid rotation keeps all mids fresh but also provides us (and the opp) with different looks up forward and through the middle.

The starting three makes us a better balanced mid field with some real break away grunt (Tracc & Harmes) and break away evasiveness when in form (Gus) imv.  Gus being the weakest of that three given his poor finish, inconsistency, lack of two way running and inability to hurt on the scoreboard very often.  Possible replacement needed at year's end (along with Viney) subject to performance / role playing ability for the remainder of this season.

Extract from foxsports.com Sept 2018....

...."Angus Brayshaw has been thrown his fair share of responsibility and has excelled, becoming a genuine inside-outside midfielder.

Meanwhile, James Harmes has earned the opportunity to go head-to-head with the opposition’s best midfielder.

The pair have become a crucial one-two punch alongside inside midfield maestro Clayton Oliver, allowing the Demons to dominate the clearance battle in most of their games.

Given the trio’s hot form in recent weeks, adding Viney back into the mix proved to be an incredible bonus — rather than a matter of filling a gaping hole in the side.

Harmes said Viney’s presence allowed the Dees to change up their inside midfield rotations — especially with the likes of Christian Petracca and Aaron vandenBerg able to pinch hit " ...

Edited July 10, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Hogan2014 390]

Jennings also states our strategy of speed playing on  is how the saints played for 5 years ... so we get their ex coach in Richardson, very damning on Goodwin as this has highlighted the flaws & either he changes or we will see an exodus of talent want to leave to chase success 

[58er 5,608]

12 hours ago, Skuit said:

You want me to give you you the figures for how many of those 26 losses Jennings was at the club for, including the West Coast prelim catastrophe, before being dismissed a year later? Yeah - bordering on 90 percent. 

Yes but it would appear that he fought fir change and not surprisingly had been given his match in orders IOW Goody dies not want alternatives to his plans!!!

That  appears  to be the trouble as there is no one else near him when the TV goes on him! Yes phones but no Macca down at ground level either !!

[58er 5,608]

We are wasting prob about $3/500,000 y Th his year with Richo Whose Saints game plan was hopeless also. 

[Binmans PA 26,208]

5 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Rjay If you recall, much of our drive from roughly mid season 2018 that gave us our winning momentum into finals came once Gus and Harmes (to a lessor extent?) were switched into the middle on a more permanent basis as inside / outside players (Harmes in more of a run with role on occasions) vs inside (Viney & Chunk) with Viney still recovering and Chunk slowly being pushed to a wing (swing man off HB & HF also).

It was the addition of this inside/outside breakaway (clearing congestion more effectively more often) ability that played an important role in this momentum change imho.  In other words....there was no Viney, until he returned as a red hot tackling/clearing machine into finals which I'm sure helped on the big occasions adding an extra rotation and breathing room for the other mids to rest / recover in the two winning finals.

My gut feel now is similar to yours, Tracc & Gus play more time through the middle

Yes we already are but play them more to squeeze out mostly Viney and to a lessor degree Clarry (both playing bigger roles/time resting forward) AND also bring in Harmes as well to do same.

So getting us loosened up to more of an inside / outside bias mid field with better spread ability (a la the 2nd half of 2018) ....your three regular startimg mids should be...

1.  Tracc - bull inside / outside with reasonable finish coming inside 50 who can also drift forward and goal on occasions.  

2.  Harmes - As per Tracc just a slight cog down with average finish inside 50 but also a handy / solid run with who gut runs both ways.  

3.  Gus - Handy, albeit inconsistent, inside / outside clearance/link man with relatively poor disposal coming inside 50.  Rarely scores and not the greatest two way runner or run with option.

And four others in the regular rotation...

4.  Clarry - Plays mostly forward or starting bench and also relieves the above as required (approx 60/40 ish).

5.  Viney - As per Clarry but approx 70/30 ish and more time on the bench in order to ensure when he is on the field he has reserves in the tank to smack in hard on tackles, hitting contests hard and the ability to lose opponent on the burst when up forward (approx 70%  of time).  Moving into more of a specialist medium/small forward role taking on opp defenders to pressure for turnovers inside 50 and opportunist goals where possible.

6.  AVB - Similar to Viney (approx 70/30).  Both playing the same role off the bench.

7.  Melk - As per Viney & AVB but roughly 80/20 IF in form.  Given present form he is on the Fringe 22 imv and might be brought in if he has earned the call up and others above under perform / incur an injury.

Having the last four in the regular mid rotation keeps all mids fresh but also provides us (and the opp) with different looks up forward and through the middle.

The starting three makes us a better balanced mid field with some real break away grunt (Tracc & Harmes) and break away evasiveness when in form (Gus) imv.  Gus being the weakest of that three given his poor finish, inconsistency, lack of two way running and inability to hurt on the scoreboard very often.  Possible replacement needed at year's end (along with Viney) subject to performance / role playing ability for the remainder of this season.

Extract from foxsports.com Sept 2018....

...."Angus Brayshaw has been thrown his fair share of responsibility and has excelled, becoming a genuine inside-outside midfielder.

Meanwhile, James Harmes has earned the opportunity to go head-to-head with the opposition’s best midfielder.

The pair have become a crucial one-two punch alongside inside midfield maestro Clayton Oliver, allowing the Demons to dominate the clearance battle in most of their games.

Given the trio’s hot form in recent weeks, adding Viney back into the mix proved to be an incredible bonus — rather than a matter of filling a gaping hole in the side.

Harmes said Viney’s presence allowed the Dees to change up their inside midfield rotations — especially with the likes of Christian Petracca and Aaron vandenBerg able to pinch hit " ...

I don't mind the direction you're heading in but the vital component of our 2018 surge was Oliver's extraction.

The anti Oliver sentiment is absurd in the media and on here. He's definitely mid #1, with support from Petracca and one of Gus or Harmes, with Viney and Melksham for bursts.

[Demon Dynasty 15,540]

2 hours ago, A F said:

I don't mind the direction you're heading in but the vital component of our 2018 surge was Oliver's extraction.

The anti Oliver sentiment is absurd in the media and on here. He's definitely mid #1, with support from Petracca and one of Gus or Harmes, with Viney and Melksham for bursts.

I agree to a point AF ....what i would love to see with Clarry this season however....is, you guessed it, learnings!  ?

But seriously.  I would love to see him play this season more forward to start adding an extra 'forward' string to his bow.  He can also drag or shake a hard tag forward.  Hopefully he also learns a little extra forward craft.  Find the goals on occasions.  A bit of finesse / finish to do so.  Then appreciates what it takes to deliver more effectively to a forward on a lead or to his fat side etc.  That appreciation hopefully leads to some more finesse on finishing when he goes back into mid field and starts looking for forwards coming out of the middle.

If he keeps going the way he's going at the moment we are potentially looking at another Viney/Gus ball murderer with ball in hand AF albeit he will still be a contested beast but that's about it.  The little agility / breakaway / baulking side we saw from Clarry early on is dissipating by the week imho.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Binmans PA 26,208]

33 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I agree to a point AF ....what i would love to see with Clarry this season however....is, you guessed it, learnings!  ?

But seriously.  I would love to see him play this season more forward to start adding an extra 'forward' string to his bow.  He can also drag or shake a hard tag forward.  Hopefully he also learns a little extra forward craft.  Find the goals on occasions.  A bit of finesse / finish to do so.  Then appreciates what it takes to deliver more effectively to a forward on a lead or to his fat side etc.  That appreciation hopefully leads to some more finesse on finishing when he goes back into mid field and starts looking for forwards coming out of the middle.

If he keeps going the way he's going at the moment we are potentially looking at another Viney/Gus ball murderer with ball in hand AF albeit he will still be a contested beast but that's about it.  The little agility / breakaway / baulking side we saw from Clarry early on is dissipating by the week imho.

I'm not saying Clarry can't improve but bloody hell, he's got a record as good as Cripps (but much younger), he mauled Cripps when we played them and Cripps is considered a star of the comp. Meanwhile, Clarry's 'defensive game' isn't good enough and he 'doesn't hurt opposition enough'. [censored] off, David King. He's the extractor of just about all our clearances. 

If our players are so fit, then their defensive deficiencies are either laziness/mindset or poor coaching/lack of constructive instruction. 

It'd be like taking Chris Judd's clearance dominance out of the middle and saying he needs to work on his defensive game, so let's play Juddy at full forward. It just doesn't stick for me. By all means rest him up forward occasionally, but he's got to be our #1 starting mid.

He needs to work on his decision making (which I think is mostly a coaching instruction) in the heat of the midfield. Playing him forward is not going to help that at all.

Each to their own, mate. I disagree on the more regular move forward.

Edited July 11, 2020 by A F

[Demon17 4,577]

3 hours ago, 58er said:

We are wasting prob about $3/500,000 y Th his year with Richo Whose Saints game plan was hopeless also. 

But exactly what is richos role? I've never understood apart from an experienced mature sounding board for goodwin. Is it strategy???

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

16 hours ago, DurriePirate said:

They may have reduced the "bees to a honey pot" by still happens at crucial moments.

What kills me is watching the forward 50 get absolutely swamped by our player instead if keep that arc of 4-6 player across the centre just 60-70m out. Stopping the exit and creating space for the forwards.

Agree re the f50 being swamped, which is more relevant than the bees to the honeypot midfield issues of seasons past. They are not one of the same. Jennings most me on that point 

[Hogan2014 390]

Goodwin needs to resign if we finish bottom 4 again, he needs to respect the long suffering members/supporters who after a decade & 1/2 have seen finals only once. Can’t afford to see such a wasted talented list achieve nothing or whatever talent we have will seek a trade to find success.  No excuses has a healthy list!

Edited July 11, 2020 by Hogan2014

[rjay 23,922]

9 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

My gut feel now is similar to yours, Tracc & Gus play more time through the middle

Yes we already are but play them more to squeeze out mostly Viney and to a lessor degree Clarry (both playing bigger roles/time resting forward) AND also bring in Harmes as well to do same.

I think Viney upsets the mix in the middle.

He hits the ball up hard but often competes with his own player.

If he learned to hit the ball and give it off rather than trying to do too much, then he would be more value.

Oliver as the extractor with Brayshaw or Trac and Harmes works for me.

Viney to pinch hit and play mostly forward.

[picket fence 15,220]

On 7/9/2020 at 10:40 PM, spirit of norm smith said:

Clarry is a bloody good footballer.
Not the sharpest tool in the shed. If he’s kicking and decision making get real coaching, then he could be A grade.  

Not sure what you mean by that "Not the sharpest tool in the shed"? Are you talking in a footy sense?? If so how do you know that he isn't being over coached? From the point of view that he has been instructed to kick the ball more often?? As I see it he isn't doing the "Instinctive"things as much anymore! If I was his coach I would say to him take the game on and do instinctively!

[Binmans PA 26,208]

38 minutes ago, rjay said:

I think Viney upsets the mix in the middle.

He hits the ball up hard but often competes with his own player.

If he learned to hit the ball and give it off rather than trying to do too much, then he would be more value.

Oliver as the extractor with Brayshaw or Trac and Harmes works for me.

Viney to pinch hit and play mostly forward.

Agreed. I think Viney plays mostly forward and rotates with Clarry. They compete for the same ball but Oliver is a much better decision maker.

[Demon Dynasty 15,540]

2 hours ago, A F said:

I'm not saying Clarry can't improve but bloody hell, he's got a record as good as Cripps (but much younger), he mauled Cripps when we played them and Cripps is considered a star of the comp. Meanwhile, Clarry's 'defensive game' isn't good enough and he 'doesn't hurt opposition enough'. [censored] off, David King. He's the extractor of just about all our clearances. 

If our players are so fit, then their defensive deficiencies are either laziness/mindset or poor coaching/lack of constructive instruction. 

It'd be like taking Chris Judd's clearance dominance out of the middle and saying he needs to work on his defensive game, so let's play Juddy at full forward. It just doesn't stick for me. By all means rest him up forward occasionally, but he's got to be our #1 starting mid.

He needs to work on his decision making (which I think is mostly a coaching instruction) in the heat of the midfield. Playing him forward is not going to help that at all.

Each to their own, mate. I disagree on the more regular move forward.

This season only AF.  To learn and appreciate the finesse required to find a forward or at least deliver to their favoured side more often and run on to the ball.

That and learn forward craft a little more.  Add another string.

At present we only have one mid, who when he rests or drifts forward, looks likely to kick the odd goal.  I'll give you one guess who that is.  Unlike many of the better clubs, most of our mids rarely worry the scorer, including Clarry.

This season is a rare chance to instil some learnings.... then reset for 2021.  Clarry returns to a major role in the middle again.  But this time a better more well rounded Clarry coming inside 50 who can also score when resting forward.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[dice 566]

31 minutes ago, A F said:

Agreed. I think Viney plays mostly forward and rotates with Clarry. They compete for the same ball but Oliver is a much better decision maker.

Viney should be turned solely into a tagger. He is just not efficient enough in other positions on the ground.

[Constant Mongrel 571]

On 7/10/2020 at 12:28 PM, chookrat said:

I'd take some of this with a grain of salt. Jennings says that our key problem is a 30 second fix that can be addressed through some positional changes. He also references changes to the way St Kilda played under Richardson. It is easy to point out issues and how to solve them from a position where you have no responsibility for the outcome.

exactly. i didn't see him solving any of the issues that we have now (and had when he was still around) so easily.. hmm.

[Binmans PA 26,208]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

This season only AF.  To learn and appreciate the finesse required to find a forward or at least deliver to their favoured side more often and run on to the ball.

That and learn forward craft a little more.  Add another string.

At present we only have one mid, who when he rests or drifts forward, looks likely to kick the odd goal.  I'll give you one guess who that is.  Unlike many of the better clubs, most of our mids rarely worry the scorer, including Clarry.

This season is a rare chance to instil some learnings.... then reset for 2021.  Clarry returns to a major role in the middle again.  But this time a better more well rounded Clarry coming inside 50 who can also score when resting forward.

Fair enough. I'd just want my best ball winner in the middle and as I say, he won't learn anything about his shortcomings from playing forward IMO.

[wheaters31 567]

You can't deny he was right about Max playing in the back half. Intercept marks yesterday were critical.

[jnrmac 18,994]

37 minutes ago, wheaters31 said:

You can't deny he was right about Max playing in the back half. Intercept marks yesterday were critical.

Having Weed and LJ in the fwd line gus us that luxury...