Craig Jennings Analysis of Dees Game Plan

[Earl Hood 5,869]

4 minutes ago, A F said:

Yep, they've definitely backed the coach in, but it's hard to know what went down and whwther it was the right move in the end. Time may tell.

Unfortunately I think time is telling. If our FD can’t see what our biggest problem is I am really concerned, there is no other option but to remove the coach. Just look at last weeks game and the repeated failure of ball carriers to sight free forwards but just kick long to a contest. It’s damning but it has been going on for 18 months. It is mind boggling stupidity and I wonder how the players are still buying into this get ball, kick forward at all costs game plan? 

[rjay 24,145]

2 hours ago, tiers said:

Playing Clarrie in the forward line does have merit so  long as he is replaced in the midfeild by a tagger type who can run eg Harmes who filled this role in 2018 with flair and excitement. Let the opposition worry for a change.

To my mind this is a dumb move...

We tried it a few times last year, probably Jennings idea.

It didn't work...

Clarrie is not a forward, he's a pure mid.

Viney should be the pressure forward if anyone, he doesn't offer enough around the ball.

Clarrie out of the midfield gives the oppo one less thing to worry about.

I don't mind Harmes in as a tagger but only when there is a suitable job.

Clarrie played one on one with Cripps and did him over in the first game, they had to move him forward to get some value.

...by the way, how is Cripps, Danger, Neale, Martin etc. etc. defensive game.

Clarrie just needs more time midfield and learn to hurt the oppo more with his possessions, then it won't matter as they will always be watching him.

There lies the problem at the moment.

[Binmans PA 26,623]

5 minutes ago, rjay said:

To my mind this is a dumb move...

We tried it a few times last year, probably Jennings idea.

It didn't work...

Clarrie is not a forward, he's a pure mid.

Viney should be the pressure forward if anyone, he doesn't offer enough around the ball.

Clarrie out of the midfield gives the oppo one less thing to worry about.

I don't mind Harmes in as a tagger but only when there is a suitable job.

Clarrie played one on one with Cripps and did him over in the first game, they had to move him forward to get some value.

...by the way, how is Cripps, Danger, Neale, Martin etc. etc. defensive game.

Clarrie just needs more time midfield and learn to hurt the oppo more with his possessions, then it won't matter as they will always be watching him.

There lies the problem at the moment.

The Clarry bashing wouldn't happen at many other clubs. 

[DemonOX 8,551]

I heard him say something like he was amazed at the lack of positional changes from the coaches box when we played Richmond.

Hope this doesnt continue but on the evidence to date it doesn’t look good. 

[spirit of norm smith 13,547]

Clarry is a bloody good footballer.
Not the sharpest tool in the shed. If he’s kicking and decision making get real coaching, then he could be A grade.  

[jnrmac 19,454]

22 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

I heard him say something like he was amazed at the lack of positional changes from the coaches box when we played Richmond.

Hope this doesnt continue but on the evidence to date it doesn’t look good. 

He's stubborn

[deelusions from afar 1,620]

I found it interesting but as others have said, as he was there last year and the problems are hardly new, then I'm sure Goody and co would be aware of the "solutions".  Not saying they won't work... but it's easy to make left field suggestions and say that it will fix the problems.

 

I get the sense that they believe (rightly or wrongly) that they have the right plan and team to play well and it's not quite clicking at the moment.  (yes we were lucky v carlton but despite being well beaten were not far from snatching it against richmond or geelong).  Once the cohesion and synergy is there, things will improve dramatically - which I suspect is why they're not wanting to drop players after one poor game and/or make lots of positional moves on game day.   They want to back in the system they've worked at all summer - like it has eventually for other teams in recent years.

I think the part that I found most interesting was the idea of not doing a full ground defensive press when the other team has the ball - I understand the attraction of causing front half turnovers but defending the whole ground is exhausting and difficult when you're not as quick as your opponent. Let them pick their way through our flood and then allow our medium size forwards loose on the counter attack.

Edited July 9, 2020 by deelusions from afar

[58er 5,690]

7 hours ago, A F said:

Yep, they've definitely backed the coach in, but it's hard to know what went down and whwther it was the right move in the end. Time may tell.

Well AF we haven't hit a great deal of time.

The Coach must admit his Plan is not working and be flexible. He must swallow his pride and admit it and change. Right now  he appears to be unchallenged and limes it BUT look at our system and plan and results. In addition we look horrible on the field no one will watch us if we play like against the Cats.

Jennings was a master tactician and would get credit from our 2018 form and success. 
I would back him in and if Simon doesn't change and results don't come it will be too late as our young players will want to leave.

Yhe fact is I believe EVERY Dees fan knows we are not 17th on ability but are bring destabilised by a selfish and stubborn Coach who should be given 2020 to solve the problem Or resign.

And please take Alan Richardson with him,  as he is a yes man I suspect and failed at the Saints with his plan which our plan also resembles with forward line shambles and accuracy.

[Deesprate 1,262]

Jennings also had a crack at Goodwin a few week ago about the length of pre season training camps. He stated the optimal period was 5 days but Goody ran a camp for 11 days the longest he had experienced. Said it reflected Goodys love of training but left the players disenfranchised due to the length. Goody seem to have a mantra my way or the highway. At least he loses the coaching gig he can say I did it my way

[BW511 2,338]

5 hours ago, deelusions from afar said:I think the part that I found most interesting was the idea of not doing a full ground defensive press when the other team has the ball - I understand the attraction of causing front half turnovers but defending the whole ground is exhausting and difficult when you're not as quick as your opponent. Let them pick their way through our flood and then allow our medium size forwards loose on the counter attack.

One of the benefits of starting our play from further back is a lot more ground to work with. Jamming all our players in the forward half takes up space that we can’t find for attack.

 

[bing181 8,348]

12 hours ago, tiers said:

The implication is that Goodwon is either too stubborn or too hidebound to accept another opinion.

Only on Demonland.

[cantstandyasam 700]

5 hours ago, 58er said:

Well AF we haven't hit a great deal of time.

The Coach must admit his Plan is not working and be flexible. He must swallow his pride and admit it and change. Right now  he appears to be unchallenged and limes it BUT look at our system and plan and results. In addition we look horrible on the field no one will watch us if we play like against the Cats.

Jennings was a master tactician and would get credit from our 2018 form and success. 
I would back him in and if Simon doesn't change and results don't come it will be too late as our young players will want to leave.

Yhe fact is I believe EVERY Dees fan knows we are not 17th on ability but are bring destabilised by a selfish and stubborn Coach who should be given 2020 to solve the problem Or resign.

And please take Alan Richardson with him,  as he is a yes man I suspect and failed at the Saints with his plan which our plan also resembles with forward line shambles and accuracy.

Don't understand y when in attack we ignore a team mate on their own to just bomb it to a contest. Just dumb.

[Lucifers Hero 37,474]

12 hours ago, A F said:

The Clarry bashing wouldn't happen at many other clubs. 

He has taken a lot of public heat this week so I hope he plays a blinder on Saturday.  Its like the media is blaming him for all our midfield woes.  Totally unfair.

That aside, I feel the club has let him down.  Other than a few words from Goodwin post game (great fella, very valuable player) no-one has come out and stood up for him after the media bashing started.  Its been a busy week so I can forgive the club a little.  But he is only 22, still relatively 'junior' in football and worldly experience and shouldn't have to wear the media bashing.   At 22 that stuff could really do someone's head in.

In his B&F speech last year he thanked Macca for (among other things) "always having my back".  Thought it was odd that he felt he needed to say it and wondered if it related to internal stuff.   I hope someone at the club has taken on Macca's 'protector' role not only for Oliver but for others who valued that about Macca.. 

Would really like to see someone come out and stand up for him.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[drdrake 3,059]

49 minutes ago, cantstandyasam said:

Don't understand y when in attack we ignore a team mate on their own to just bomb it to a contest. Just dumb.

Because we don't back our skill to hit a 20-30m target.  We default to kicking it as long as we can and hope we can lock it in deep.  We miss the shallow entry kick and it comes out real quick, with little chance of us defending.

Jennings has just said what we have all be highlighting for 2 years, if not longer.  I wonder if he had differing game plans that Goodwin shut down, this guy was our main assistant coach all off the sudden fell out of favour sent to the VFL and then gone.

[pewpewpew 686]

I strongly suspect that this was one time that Goody's plan worked over Jennings plan.

[Lucifers Hero 37,474]

8 minutes ago, pewpewpew said:

I strongly suspect that this was one time that Goody's plan worked over Jennings plan.

Did someone say Goodwin isn't passionate?

Btw which game was that?

[Demonland 66,753]

1 minute ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Did someone say Goodwin isn't passionate?

Btw which game was that?

I'm pretty sure that that was the game we held on to win in Adelaide in 2018.

[Brownie 5,493]

14 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Unfortunately I think time is telling. If our FD can’t see what our biggest problem is I am really concerned, there is no other option but to remove the coach. Just look at last weeks game and the repeated failure of ball carriers to sight free forwards but just kick long to a contest. It’s damning but it has been going on for 18 months. It is mind boggling stupidity and I wonder how the players are still buying into this get ball, kick forward at all costs game plan? 

I agree Earl, I think he is stubborn is losing the players because the plan isn't working.

I found the interview really enlightening.

Goodys coaching.... Jennings had a dig multiple times about coaching to stats and not being flexible and creative with match day coaching.

Even mentioned that we don't seem to evaluate the opposition's game plans and have a strategy to counteract it.

The moves.

Gawn defensive ruck and Tmac forward ruck makes perfect sense. It was so good to see Tommy up the field and getting his hands on the ball at last. I'm sure he'll play into form if we let him get more of the pill.

Lever, also makes sense. If Gawn is in the back half more often, Lever has more opportunity to intercept and run off. That's his strength and currently we're not utilising it.

He mentioned Tagging their best out of the game, Harmes role.

Defend further back. Thats what every team does to us. Seems to work a treat.

Clarry forward. Why not.

I think the players need to see changes happening too.

[Demon Dynasty 16,214]

20 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Interesting to hear a previous coach pointing out these issues and that the club still haven't addressed it years on.

Also interesting that teams actively target Oliver and Petracca as weak links defensively and try to launch offensive attacks through the players they're on. Also suggest Oliver be played more forward for his own development.

Too many players go at the footy, opposition just wait on the outside. If Melbourne do win the ball, they're surrounded and make poor decisions as a result. Coaches do this on loop to nullify the amount of contests we win.

When the opposition get the ball they maintain possession and play keepings off, and we have no way to combat that. 

They're two obvious strategic things that have brought us unstuck for years now. We are outcoached on a weekly basis. Until we change gamestyle, we can give 110% effort as much as we like, but we will not be a competitor.

We are such an easy coaching get on so many levels.

The opp knows we will (too often) send too many numbers to the contest.  They compete but don't send the extra instead maintaining structure and most likely a spare at HB that's been left behind by our extra number at the ball.

All they need do is maintain structure and decent pressure around the contest.  Gamble that if we get it it isn't really a loss.  If we do, they then pressure down, we usually only hospital handball to a player who is also in close to the contest zone.  Sometimes that comes off but then that player is under severe pressure and misses the next chain....etc or a quick get out dumped kick often straight into the hands of their spare across HB that we've gifted them.

We are also so inept at transition away from the contest, even if we get free, they are quite content in the knowledge we will probably stuff up our next disposal anyway if they circle us in a little.  See Viney last week at the opening bounce.

Turnover/s eventually occurs, they get it and have outlets sitting away from the contested zone.  Hit up that loose player or two with a decent handball (or more) or a short kick and they're out.

We then also give up territory on occasions (not always) and zone off so loosely that the opp cruises through our front half, picking their way up to mid field.  Then choosing where when to launch from and to with ease.

See the first 2 or 3 quarters against the Cats.  See Rnd 5 versus the Tigers last year.  There was another against the Swans one season under SG, the round escapes me.  Does he ever learn?

So he drops that disastrous strat last week against the Tigers and we at  least compete and hold our own in the first.

But then we see the terrible disconnect highlighted by Gazza and others on here (Red Zone/Veil Mist) between our mids & forwards.  Forwards often doing the right thing but not even being looked for/spotted and comsequently hit up on occasions.

Then there's the lack of a decent Key forward to take the odd clunker / pack mark or bust a small pack on a lead, bringing the ball to ground for the mediums and smalls.  Occasionaly they do but then we rarely see any of the mediums/smalls front & square or on the run reading off the pack.  Instead we usually only see the opp doing this and running it out with ease more often than not.

Where's the forward pressure from our smaller brigade?

ANB probably one of our better exponents and opens the season quite well, but then gets dropped!?  I mean wth is going on?

I have seen some bad coaching (certainly not just the coach, being not helped by lack of talent at times) but i would place Neeld and SG right up there at the top of the poor coaching tree in the 5 decades i've been watching.

He has about 4 to 6 matches to turn the mess around imo.  I seriously hope he and the boys do as i hate to think where this club will be financially at season's end if we have another outcome similar to 2019.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Half forward flank 1,022]

20 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Interesting to hear a previous coach pointing out these issues and that the club still haven't addressed it years on.

Also interesting that teams actively target Oliver and Petracca as weak links defensively and try to launch offensive attacks through the players they're on. Also suggest Oliver be played more forward for his own development.

Too many players go at the footy, opposition just wait on the outside. If Melbourne do win the ball, they're surrounded and make poor decisions as a result. Coaches do this on loop to nullify the amount of contests we win.

When the opposition get the ball they maintain possession and play keepings off, and we have no way to combat that. 

They're two obvious strategic things that have brought us unstuck for years now. We are outcoached on a weekly basis. Until we change gamestyle, we can give 110% effort as much as we like, but we will not be a competitor.

Tt is obvious, glaringly so to a casual footy observer that you just sweat on our mids and they will cough it up. A bit like in nature, the lion gets the kill and the birds and hyenas grab the juicy bits.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Did someone say Goodwin isn't passionate?

Btw which game was that?

Interesting to interpret Jennings body language. Jut a guess, Goody taking credit for Jennings work. Its like jennings is silently saying. Well thats what I have been telling you to do for a while now. 

[rjay 24,145]

52 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Clarry forward. Why not.

...because it takes away our biggest strength.

[Pennant St Dee 11,734]

19 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

He and Rawlings were big losses for us IMO.

 

Agree, really rate Rawlings as a coach 

[Pennant St Dee 11,734]

15 hours ago, rjay said:

To my mind this is a dumb move...

We tried it a few times last year, probably Jennings idea.

It didn't work...

Clarrie is not a forward, he's a pure mid.

Viney should be the pressure forward if anyone, he doesn't offer enough around the ball.

Clarrie out of the midfield gives the oppo one less thing to worry about.

I don't mind Harmes in as a tagger but only when there is a suitable job.

Clarrie played one on one with Cripps and did him over in the first game, they had to move him forward to get some value.

...by the way, how is Cripps, Danger, Neale, Martin etc. etc. defensive game.

Clarrie just needs more time midfield and learn to hurt the oppo more with his possessions, then it won't matter as they will always be watching him.

There lies the problem at the moment.

Respectfully disagree Rjay,

I'd like to see Clarrie moved forward and Viney used as our tagger, not disagreeing how good a job he did on Cripps, but with our turnovers it provides plenty of options the other way.

Until we get our lateral and short range quick ball movement sorted out I'd like to see 2 of Harmes, Brayshaw and Viney in there at all times and rotate Clarrie and Trac through the other mid/forward rotation. Viney isn't going to hurt any side inside forward 50, but I think both Clarrie and Trac do.

Magnets and plans B, C &D all need to be in place to make us less predictable in games/quarters to keep opposition second guessing and allow us to change things up a little when we need to shift momentum 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Pennant St Dee

[chookrat 3,845]

21 hours ago, mpc said:

The first 15 mins or so of this is great listening if you are interested in hearing a dissection of how our game plan (or lack of) is falling apart.

Edit: starts at about 2:30 mark

I'd take some of this with a grain of salt. Jennings says that our key problem is a 30 second fix that can be addressed through some positional changes. He also references changes to the way St Kilda played under Richardson. It is easy to point out issues and how to solve them from a position where you have no responsibility for the outcome.