On 13/06/2020 at 11:32, Megatron said:

Haha. Clearly not going by this article. 

Have a read and educate yourself. Remember this article was in 2017. His last year with the crows in which he played a pivotal role in them making it to the Grand Final and why we paid what we did. 

https://www.afl.com.au/news/121080/why-are-clubs-so-keen-to-lure-jake-lever

He was terrific at the crows. A big part of his success was big able to focus solely on the the intercept role and not have to be accountable for adirect oppoent. And the reason he was able to play that role and rack up all those sexy intercept stats was the rest of the defence doing their job, in particular Thalia. The system they employed also supported him playing that role -  one that involved not being accountable for an opponent. Exactly the role he plays for us . I can't recall the name of the fella but when Lever left he slotted into that role and also looked great. 

That article (which reads like his manager wrote it) suggest he is heir apparent to Rance. Don't get me wrong i think he is good player, but he is not in Rance's league. And wont ever be, To be fair few are. But that is what we were hoping to get. 

Of course the knee injury made things hard to assess but he is poor kick and for defender, very poor one on one. These deficiencies are not a function of his knee injury and were apparent at the crows.

Saw that tonight. No way Rance lets Cripps take that mark (the one he missed) 

  On 13/06/2020 at 10:57, whitito said:

Yes, I would finish a guy who is coming off an unprecedented break???!!!Touch was always going to be a problem, and this has been common across the league. Dusty Martin looked out of touch and shape. The hyperbole on here is laughable

Hasn't looked the same for 18 months, why is this hyperbole? Your clearly a soft touch accepting these sorts of efforts.

Edited June 13, 20204 yr by Win4theAges

  On 13/06/2020 at 11:44, Half forward flank said:

No need to tell me to educte myself. As it happens the summary is by a non event journo and talks about a nine game period in one year.  Comparing him to Rance and McGovern is and was laughable. They were key defenders, Lever a third tall.  Fool journos like this one were exactly what pumped up his asking price. Makes you wonder.

You said stats don’t lie about him being overrated. I’m just showing you an article to show you he’s not. Lever is an intercept player. He led the league at that point in intercept marks. Even in 2016 he was up there in the top few and that was his second year of footy. 2017 was even better and he was only 21 then. He’s only just turned 24 now. 
Give him and the back line a few games together before making comments like that. 

  On 13/06/2020 at 10:27, dieter said:

Yes, only watched highlights, glad I have a dog which needs regular dog park frolics, because otherwise I'd have been on the roller coast ride from  heaven and back. The highlights of the second half show the same old bulldust of three Melbourne players flying for marks, no-one at the bottom to mop up. I ask myself, why does this keep happening????It's like checking your Tattslotto ticket every Saturday night and finding your numbers are bulldust. The same with our back line. 

Those tall backs are going to need time to learn to work as one. That's the best hope I can offer.

  On 13/06/2020 at 10:06, binman said:

I rate Smith. But he was flat out terrible today. 

Melk can be a good player. But more often than not isn't. Like today. And personally it is that type of player I hate the most. Talent but pick and choose when to use it, with a dose of infuriating arrogance thrown in, type of player.

Anb is exactly the opposite. Not the most talented but his level of effort and desire never drops. That is the sort of player I like.

Then you get a player like cripps who combine talent, consistency and work rate. The true stars. How many of these do we have? Realistically only gawn and tracc. 

I thought Clarry had the better of the battle with Cripps until Cripps moved off him to the forward line.

  On 13/06/2020 at 11:55, Megatron said:

You said stats don’t lie about him being overrated. I’m just showing you an article to show you he’s not. Lever is an intercept player. He led the league at that point in intercept marks. Even in 2016 he was up there in the top few and that was his second year of footy. 2017 was even better and he was only 21 then. He’s only just turned 24 now. 
Give him and the back line a few games together before making comments like that. 

You gave stats for 9 games.  36 marks.  Who would recruit anyone based on being an intercept mark. What does that stat even mean?  

Turned 24 a couple of months ago, still a ways off 100 games. Not even a seasons worth with us yet.

Reckon there's a fair few going a little too early here.

 

  On 13/06/2020 at 11:55, Megatron said:

You said stats don’t lie about him being overrated. I’m just showing you an article to show you he’s not. Lever is an intercept player. He led the league at that point in intercept marks. Even in 2016 he was up there in the top few and that was his second year of footy. 2017 was even better and he was only 21 then. He’s only just turned 24 now. 
Give him and the back line a few games together before making comments like that. 

Sam Frost and your Lever

Lever 5.5 marks per game career average

Sam Frost 5.3 per game career average

I like Frosty but he is just a battler and has as good a stats as Lever. Hope I am wrong but never liked this deal. Two first round picks..

 

We essentially gave up Lachie O'Brien & Liam Stocker for Lever

Not the worst thing ever but still no player is worth that unless they are elite. 

It was the IT thing to do trade two first round picks.

Thought he was okay in first half.

The whole backline was dysfunctional 

May, Lever & Smith all flying for the same ball. Cost us 2 or 3 goals on poor positioning.

  On 13/06/2020 at 12:01, Moonshadow said:

I thought Clarry had the better of the battle with Cripps until Cripps moved off him to the forward line.

Agree. But Oliver has got a way to go to get near Cripps as a player.

Cripps imposed himself on the game in that last quarter and almost won it for them. That's what the real stars find a way to do. Oliver is not there yet. 

Yes today was not too good for Lever. Glad that he got through and will be better with May and Jetta once they play more together.  Lever will be better. 
 

We gave two 1st round picks for an intercept defender.  Not sure he’s worth that or the $600k price tag. 

  On 13/06/2020 at 12:12, Half forward flank said:

Sam Frost and your Lever

Lever 5.5 marks per game career average

Sam Frost 5.3 per game career average

I like Frosty but he is just a battler and has as good a stats as Lever. Hope I am wrong but never liked this deal. Two first round picks..

Jeremy Howe walking out has cost us a lot in retrospect. We would not have needed to chase Lever as an intercept back and instead would have taken our first rounders. So far Lever is just a player, hope this changes. 

The problem with Lever isn't his ability. It's his role within our defensive unit overall.

Like almost every player in the league, he has weaknesses, and they get exploited when:

1. 2-3 of Smith, May, Jetta and Lever jump at the same ball;
2. May and others shank kicks coming outside of the back 50, opening us up on a quick rebound;
3. our mids/forwards don't put the requisite level of pressure on the opposition, meaning they get to pick and choose who they're kicking to.

Lever is essential to holding our defensive unit together but when the other cogs break down, he does too. He isn't very good one-on-one but if we're playing well, he doesn't end up one-on-one very often and the ball isn't coming in to our opposition forwards' advantage.

He can do better, but there are much more significant issues in our midfield and forward line than there is with Lever.

  On 13/06/2020 at 12:40, Earl Hood said:

Jeremy Howe walking out has cost us a lot in retrospect. We would not have needed to chase Lever as an intercept back and instead would have taken our first rounders. So far Lever is just a player, hope this changes. 

One of the biggest failures of the Roos era - being unable to convince Howe he was a defender and making sure the club saw his value as such. Given his desire to be a forward I wasn't too upset we effectively swapped him for Hibberd who was a better kick and more reliable at the time, but what I'd give for him now.

Still, I can't believe our lack of success drafting and developing defenders the last few years. We've paid a lot for May and Lever and how many have we drafted Petty, Hore, Lockhart, Joel Smith. Should be taking athletic/competitive talents every year and developing them. It was refreshing to see Rivers come in and look comfortable.

  On 13/06/2020 at 12:56, DeeSpencer said:

It was refreshing to see Rivers come in and look comfortable.

Don't worry @DeeSpencer we'll train that out of him soon enough.

  On 13/06/2020 at 12:56, DeeSpencer said:

One of the biggest failures of the Roos era - being unable to convince Howe he was a defender and making sure the club saw his value as such. Given his desire to be a forward I wasn't too upset we effectively swapped him for Hibberd who was a better kick and more reliable at the time, but what I'd give for him now.

Still, I can't believe our lack of success drafting and developing defenders the last few years. We've paid a lot for May and Lever and how many have we drafted Petty, Hore, Lockhart, Joel Smith. Should be taking athletic/competitive talents every year and developing them. It was refreshing to see Rivers come in and look comfortable.

Losing Howe for sure and you add Hogan as well. I know we got May but that is still a long way from a win and I dont think his value is as  a deep back taking kick outs. Then you add OMac and one of those two brothers

  On 13/06/2020 at 12:45, titan_uranus said:

The problem with Lever isn't his ability. It's his role within our defensive unit overall.

Like almost every player in the league, he has weaknesses, and they get exploited when:

1. 2-3 of Smith, May, Jetta and Lever jump at the same ball;
2. May and others shank kicks coming outside of the back 50, opening us up on a quick rebound;
3. our mids/forwards don't put the requisite level of pressure on the opposition, meaning they get to pick and choose who they're kicking to.

Lever is essential to holding our defensive unit together but when the other cogs break down, he does too. He isn't very good one-on-one but if we're playing well, he doesn't end up one-on-one very often and the ball isn't coming in to our opposition forwards' advantage.

He can do better, but there are much more significant issues in our midfield and forward line than there is with Lever.

Love this post. It’s as much structure as anything. If everyone pulls their weight and we lock it inside 50 or slow the opposition’s ball movement, Lever repels everything by peeling off and spoiling/marking. Yet, when it breaks down badly it becomes like the early 2010s when good defenders such as Rivers and Frawley were standing hands on hips watching the opposition amass a cricket score against us. 

Not sure we’ve quite got the backline mix together yet to exploit Lever’s talents, however, it’s all moot until those up the ground put some pressure on. 

  On 13/06/2020 at 08:48, dazzledavey36 said:

What exactly is his role in this team?

We gave up two 1st round draft picks for someone plays zero accountable football.

Needs to give more.

After all pick swaps, it equated to a pick 10. I'd take Lever for 10. That was the whole point in 17', we needed proven defenders, not a speculative kid

Edited June 13, 20204 yr by John Demonic

ALL LEVER NEEDS TO DO IS SHAVE OFF THE YMCA MO WHICH HE COPIED FROM TEX WALKER.

MAYBE SWAP SMITH AND MCDONALD.

  On 13/06/2020 at 10:06, binman said:

I rate Smith. But he was flat out terrible today. 

Why?

He proved yet again he is a poor decision maker & not up to the hype.

It seems his only role is to try and take the mark of this century to keep it in the family.

Frost II.

  On 13/06/2020 at 22:05, John Demonic said:

After all pick swaps, it equated to a pick 10. I'd take Lever for 10. That was the whole point in 17', we needed proven defenders, not a speculative kid

I understand there was a pick 19 for the following year we gave up. As to pick 10, Lachie OBrien has stats equal to lever over the same period being paid a lot less.  

  On 13/06/2020 at 12:56, DeeSpencer said:

One of the biggest failures of the Roos era - being unable to convince Howe he was a defender and making sure the club saw his value as such.

Same for LDunn;  early on when he was being pushed to defence.   Almost exactly the same.

This to me says, those players were putting their own interest,  ahead of the teams interests.  And so,  I am not surprised they no longer are wearing RednBlue jumpers. This says a lot about our inside culture of the players,  back then.

 

More take, and less giving.    A ring of greed and self, around the club.   A subtle one,  but it is there.

Robbie Flower had a huge effect on this club,  when he was there.

Gee... didn't think he was terrible yesterday or in round one.

Thought he got his fist to plenty of balls and killed the contest as the third man up.

There was a couple of times that he went to spoil where he could have taken that mark, but that would have to be team rules.

  On 13/06/2020 at 08:48, dazzledavey36 said:

What exactly is his role in this team?

We gave up two 1st round draft picks for someone plays zero accountable football.

Needs to give more.

One week in a football career he intercepts well and feeds out the ball adequately; the next week he is unsighted and gets no feeds for other players. That ain't what we paid for; neither is it what he owes us after expensive remediation and heaps of trust at the selection table. We have juniors who could learn such a craft and who could execute these skills far better.

  On 13/06/2020 at 23:08, Every Game in '64 said:

ALL LEVER NEEDS TO DO IS SHAVE OFF THE YMCA MO WHICH HE COPIED FROM TEX WALKER.

MAYBE SWAP SMITH AND MCDONALD.

Definitely swap Smith and McDonald. Smith needs to 'flank' it on the forward line, however.