TRADES, DELIST, PROMOTE

[trout 385]

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

He does some good things when we’re up and about but goes missing far too often. I’m 50/50 at the moment, depending on who else is likely to get cut. Here’s the current list with OOC date, with thanks to @Lucifer's Hero: 

Depending on how many spots are reduced from clubs lists, there could be a few one year contracts given to some of those players so he could get lucky. Your right he does some good things but just can’t find consistency and been on the list a while, so unlikely that will ever change.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

2 hours ago, CYB said:

 How much longer do we persist with this setup / playing group before we make wholesale changes? IMO changing your best 22 by 5-10 would constitute a mini rebuild, 10+ would be a rebuild. 
 

So at what point do we pull the trigger on a mini rebuild? Do we persist with the current mob for another year  and target 2-3 key players for example Finlayson or equivalent for Tmac, Williams for Harmes / Brayshaw or Viney, Papley for a Spargo / Fritsch/ AnB during the trade period?

Do we think that a coach change will translate to immediate success? Because a new coach would bring a new game style / plan , which with this mob might Struggle to implement in one pre season.

My guess is as good as anyone else’s but knowing what we know, I think we will probably do very little given the uncertainty in list sizes etc.

In what world are any of those players an equivalent for Papley?

Indeed, I'd argue all three together isn't enough.

2 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Based on the view of not delisting harder than 7 (does not mean we dont trade above this) we need to clear those we dont believe can play a role in 2021 and beyond. We also need to consider the amount of contract and length and size they would partake. 

I would be delisting in order Jones (retire), Hore, Hunt, J Wagner, Smith, OMac, Hannan,

I would be promoting Lockhart to the list and delisting Brown and C Wagner and possibly Dunkley

Whilst in contract I will not be surprised to see KK retire due to his concussion issues.

 

What?!

I thought Hore had a really promising first year and would be getting games right now in OMac/Smith's spot if he wasn't injured.

Wouldn't have him anywhere near a list of players to delist, let alone second.

Happy to release Jones, J Wagner, Smith and OMac though. Not yet sure on Hannan.

[TheoX 1,222]

Smith and the Wagners need to be delisted. KK should retire ASAP for the sake of his health. 

 

[BDA 22,875]

I think our No.1 list problem is TMac. He still has 2 years left on a $600k to $800k per annum contract. That’s a lot of wasted cap. I don’t see him returning to the form of 2018, his mobility and confidence are shot.

A trade would be a tough sell. Could we tempt a club? Would Hawthorn be foolish enough to think they could rehabilitate him? Imv the best we can hope for is unloading him and paying a chunk of his wages. Otherwise I think we need to cut our losses, pay him out and delist. As hard as that is to swallow I think giving his spot to a young developing player is preferable than hoping against hope that he will turn it around.

A real shame but at least we can look back fondly at 2018.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

26 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

I think our No.1 list problem is TMac. He still has 2 years left on a $600k to $800k per annum contract. That’s a lot of wasted cap. I don’t see him returning to the form of 2018, his mobility and confidence are shot.

A trade would be a tough sell. Could we tempt a club? Would Hawthorn be foolish enough to think they could rehabilitate him? Imv the best we can hope for is unloading him and paying a chunk of his wages. Otherwise I think we need to cut our losses, pay him out and delist. As hard as that is to swallow I think giving his spot to a young developing player is preferable than hoping against hope that he will turn it around.

A real shame but at least we can look back fondly at 2018.

I am 50/50 on trying him chb and may chf. I think May could be the equal to Hogan forward and that is not easy to come by.

[whatwhat say what 22,933]

three clearest needs:
- key forward (hogan? brown? daniher?)
- left-sided outside mid (polec? gaff?)
- defensive rebound (williams?)

[Devil In Disguise 2,278]

27 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

three clearest needs:
- key forward (hogan? brown? daniher?)
- left-sided outside mid (polec? gaff?)
- defensive rebound (williams?)

Watch Scum v Eagles last game. Daniher can't kick straight to save himself. Any club drafting him would be taking a huge risk. No thanks.

[FritschyBusiness 1,478]

4 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

three clearest needs:
- key forward (hogan? brown? daniher?)
- left-sided outside mid (polec? gaff?)
- defensive rebound (williams?)

is gaff out of contract again?

[spirit of norm smith 16,587]

13 minutes ago, FritschyBusiness said:

is gaff out of contract again?

[whatwhat say what 22,933]

59 minutes ago, FritschyBusiness said:

is gaff out of contract again?

he's pre-free agency this year

he is - like josh kelly at gw$ - one of those players with a weird structure to his deal so that he actually comes out of contract at the end of 2021 despite having a further few years to run on his deal after that

why anyone would want to move to melbourne (the city as much as the club) at the moment i don't know

i mean, really, they're all going to be playing outta queensland again in 2021 anyway...

another option for outside run could by tom phillips at the filth; did his hammy this round and they've got oodles of father-sons needing to be played as outside mids, so he might be a possible target

[58er 6,559]

7 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

I am 50/50 on trying him chb and may chf. I think May could be the equal to Hogan forward and that is not easy to come by.

Try Tommy back at say CHB before we look at alternatives please and st the same time give Smith  a go up forward please.

[58er 6,559]

9 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

In what world are any of those players an equivalent for Papley?

Indeed, I'd argue all three together isn't enough.

What?!

I thought Hore had a really promising first year and would be getting games right now in OMac/Smith's spot if he wasn't injured.

Wouldn't have him anywhere near a list of players to delist, let alone second.

Happy to release Jones, J Wagner, Smith and OMac though. Not yet sure on Hannan.

Big Red sort of got it right but really neither Omac/Smith have a spot in the backline Only when we need another BIG defender and Hore is not big enough or strong enough to play that role. He is Jakes  replacement And really can't play on smells either  

I would have Brown play that at a pinch instead of firward and give Smith a go there IR give Tommy a chance back agsin.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

5 hours ago, 58er said:

Try Tommy back at say CHB before we look at alternatives please and st the same time give Smith  a go up forward please.

I think Smith is a chaotic player. I dont see any evidence of him being a forward. Is it just the romance of his Dads highlight reel. He too was not a reliable forward. 

[titan_uranus 25,043]

10 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

I think Smith is a chaotic player. I dont see any evidence of him being a forward. Is it just the romance of his Dads highlight reel. He too was not a reliable forward. 

I've seen enough from Smith to feel confident in saying he's not a footballer at all. He's an athlete. No football brain. A bit like Frost in that regard - doesn't stick to structures, can't control his urge to run and jump. Looks great when he does good things because of that athleticism, but on the whole just won't work whether forward or back.

[old dee 23,871]

39 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I've seen enough from Smith to feel confident in saying he's not a footballer at all. He's an athlete. No football brain. A bit like Frost in that regard - doesn't stick to structures, can't control his urge to run and jump. Looks great when he does good things because of that athleticism, but on the whole just won't work whether forward or back.

Cannot be sure I have this right but I get faint idea you think he is no Good tu?

[COOLX 209]

Our problem is that we are constantly rotating player, its like doing the hokie pokie. Goodwin,Richardson,Pert and Barlett would be the first to go. Goodwin is clueless. If we have a decent surely some of our revolving stock players would become regulars and we might win more matches. The trade I would like to see are Brayshaw and Viney. Delist Jetta,Hibberd,Jones,2 Wagners ,Neiske (wrong pron.) Preuss.,KK ,ANB and AVB. Would like to see Hogan back at the club. Could also get 2M Peter. we need someone one to toughen our players up mentally. Many years ago on telly an exercise was done between 2 basketball sides one was physically trained the other were mentally trained. The result  was that both sides were evenly matched. If Goodwin does not ferk off I will support this sh.t club. Would like to see us get Ross Lyon as the next coach ( third time lucky )

[Mel Bourne 4,534]

2 hours ago, COOLX said:

Our problem is that we are constantly rotating player, its like doing the hokie pokie. Goodwin,Richardson,Pert and Barlett would be the first to go. Goodwin is clueless. If we have a decent surely some of our revolving stock players would become regulars and we might win more matches. The trade I would like to see are Brayshaw and Viney. Delist Jetta,Hibberd,Jones,2 Wagners ,Neiske (wrong pron.) Preuss.,KK ,ANB and AVB. Would like to see Hogan back at the club. Could also get 2M Peter. we need someone one to toughen our players up mentally. Many years ago on telly an exercise was done between 2 basketball sides one was physically trained the other were mentally trained. The result  was that both sides were evenly matched. If Goodwin does not ferk off I will support this sh.t club. Would like to see us get Ross Lyon as the next coach ( third time lucky )

Hibberd? I don’t know about that. He’s shown us a lot this season, and I reckon he’s got one, possibly two good ones left.
 

Former AA. We need players like that for the younger ones to look up to and learn from. 

[bing181 9,328]

Going to be an interesting end of the year. Apart from some of the names already mentioned, could see players like Hannan, Hunt, ANB, VDB all being on the chopping block. Some of the younger players could be cut some slack, but we can't go on carrying the 6-8 possessions per match rotating door players.

[Elegt 872]

2 hours ago, COOLX said:

Our problem is that we are constantly rotating player, its like doing the hokie pokie. Goodwin,Richardson,Pert and Barlett would be the first to go. Goodwin is clueless. If we have a decent surely some of our revolving stock players would become regulars and we might win more matches. The trade I would like to see are Brayshaw and Viney. Delist Jetta,Hibberd,Jones,2 Wagners ,Neiske (wrong pron.) Preuss.,KK ,ANB and AVB. Would like to see Hogan back at the club. Could also get 2M Peter. we need someone one to toughen our players up mentally. Many years ago on telly an exercise was done between 2 basketball sides one was physically trained the other were mentally trained. The result  was that both sides were evenly matched. If Goodwin does not ferk off I will support this sh.t club. Would like to see us get Ross Lyon as the next coach ( third time lucky )

Please never bring Hogan to this club. He was BOG today for the dees

[DEE fence 5,039]

We need a new coach, we don't have or need another rebuild, right now it is between the ears with this lot. Some minor tweaking (still on outside run)

Key:

'- core list, has skills' = solid 'B' player, not a world beater but reliable part of the squad that fills a role.

'- B+F placing' = one of our best, not for trade.

'- future' = young and developing player, not enough evidence to make a serious call on unrealized potential.

'- we need a settled defense' = I actually think a settled back six is a key to us moving forward, very reluctant to play to much with what was a a good effort from this line all year.

'- see what a new coach can do' = Has flaws and is on thin ice, however has shown skills in the past and might be redeemable the way Roos remade Jetta into a AA standard defender.

' - showed signs, new coach' = Core list, worth persisting with, hopefully can blossom further still has upside.. 

Coaching:

> Pay Out / Release: Goodwhen and Richardson 

< Recruit Luke Beveridge and Dean Solomon (would jennings come back?)

Retain:

• may - B+F placing
• salem - core list, has skills, (bit of a smart ar$3)
• petracca - B+F placing
• jackson - future
• lever - we need a settled defense
• gawn - B+F placing
• oliver - B+F placing
• hibberd - we need a settled defense
• langdon - B+F placing
• fritsch - see what a new coach can do
• jetta - we need a settled defense, deserves a chance to come back from injury.
• t mac - see what a new coach can do
• jordan - future
• rivers - future
• weideman - showed signs, new coach
• sparrow  - future
• petty - see what a new coach can do
• pickett - future (far too early to call)
• lockhart - showed signs, new coach
• harmes - see what a new coach can do
• viney - B+F placing
• brayshaw '- see what a new coach can do', 
• preuss - core list (insurance)
• hunt - see what a new coach can do
• bennell  - core list, has skills,

TRADE / RELEASE TO FREE AGENCY OPTIONS:

• o mac - too frustrating
• anb - heart player but gone backwards
• hannan - passenger 
• smith - passenger
• vandenberg - heart player but damaging turnover king, more than ANB
• tomlinson - not enough heart, picks when too often.
• melksham - picks when too often, could be way more serious if he wanted.

LIKELY DELIST / RETIRE:

• jones - just thank you.
• spargo - NQR
• bedford- NQR
• kolodjashnij- NQR
• baker- NQR
• hore- NQR
• chandler- NQR
• brown- NQR
• c wagner- NQR
• j wagner- NQR

Rookie:

• bradtke
• dunkley
• neitschke

Thanks to whatwhatsaywhat for typing all the names out (or cut and pasting from the MFC site)

 

[dee-tox 4,835]

Really some ruthless calls are needed. Think Jones, Jetta and KK need to retire.

I think TMac is finished and club should look to see what the can get for him. I'd shop OMac around too.

Smith, Bedford, Baker, Bradke, C Wagner, Brown and Chandler delisted.

That's 12 outs. Enough for 2021.

 

 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 hour ago, dee-tox said:

Really some ruthless calls are needed. Think Jones, Jetta and KK need to retire.

I think TMac is finished and club should look to see what the can get for him. I'd shop OMac around too.

Smith, Bedford, Baker, Bradke, C Wagner, Brown and Chandler delisted.

That's 12 outs. Enough for 2021.

 

 

Its scary stuff as none of that lot have been regulars starting 18 this year. So leaves a heap of regulars who constantly let us down, Melksham, ANB and battlers like AVB and other.

[Travy14 1,948]

Trade:

Harmes/brayshaw, Hunt, TMac, ANB, Omac, Preuss, smith

Delist/retire:

Jones, Jetta, wagner, wagner, KK, brown, Goodwin

Target:

T. Phillips/polec/atkins/witherden.

Hogan/waterman/gunston

Clarkson, chocco williams, Gary ayres

Last year, last chance:

Melksham, AVB, baker, hannan, 

[58er 6,559]

7 hours ago, COOLX said:

Our problem is that we are constantly rotating player, its like doing the hokie pokie. Goodwin,Richardson,Pert and Barlett would be the first to go. Goodwin is clueless. If we have a decent surely some of our revolving stock players would become regulars and we might win more matches. The trade I would like to see are Brayshaw and Viney. Delist Jetta,Hibberd,Jones,2 Wagners ,Neiske (wrong pron.) Preuss.,KK ,ANB and AVB. Would like to see Hogan back at the club. Could also get 2M Peter. we need someone one to toughen our players up mentally. Many years ago on telly an exercise was done between 2 basketball sides one was physically trained the other were mentally trained. The result  was that both sides were evenly matched. If Goodwin does not ferk off I will support this sh.t club. Would like to see us get Ross Lyon as the next coach ( third time lucky )

Agree with Ross Lyon get him ASAP

[bing181 9,328]

There will not be a change of coach.