What is missing to win a flag?

[CBDees 3,162]

2 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I honestly think it's a mindset, system and application thing from here.  The team just has to get good at always finding a way to win, even games that we shouldn't because of poor form, injuries etc.  One hall mark of the Hawthorn teams in their eras of success is that they rarely, if ever lost three weeks in a row and I think that gets you a good part of the way there.

Similarly, I know coaches always play down the importance of winning round 1 (probably mostly the ones that regularly loose Rd 1), but I really do think that's a bit of a misnomer.  To finish top 4, teams can only loose 4, maybe 5 - 6 games within a season.  To me that says that the team needs to be winning every 4 out of 5  or 5 out 6 games.  Loosing in round 1 puts the team on the back foot from the start and always playing catch-up to finish in a strong ladder position. 

Playing catch-up means the team has to take more risks injury wise towards the back end of the season as opposed to being in a position to manage players for a good finals series.  Classic cases of teams who's strong mid season ladder position enabled them to better manage their lists for a solid attack on a premiership were West Coast in 2018 and the Tigers in 2019.

For as long as I've followed them, the MFC haven't been able to put together a consistent  well controlled approach to consistently stringing together wins over the course of the season to position us appropriately for a genuine attack on a flag - we've had the superstar tallent, but it's the consistency, system and management over an entire season that wins you flags.

An extra 20,000 members also won’t do any harm (especially if they turn up and cheer on the players). It will be interesting how much it will bring back the power clubs if they play to quiet empty stadiums. Methinks it will take away an advantage that they have always had.

[Accepting Mediocrity 1,418]

31 minutes ago, Webber said:

16 hours ago, Demonised said:

No injuries.

By any objective measure, this more closely aligns with success than any other. If Richmond and St. Kilda maintain their current injury status (zero), they will finish top 4. We’re much better placed than last year, but need to reduce our ‘unavailable’ list further. She is, however, a long season. 

Disagree with this - I think the element of luck in premierships is overplayed at times. Obviously, injuries don't help - no team could withstand having their entire backline and half their forwardline miss a majority of the season as we did last year.

But West Coast won a flag without Naitanui and Gaff (suspended) - that's the equivalent of us losing Gawn and Oliver. They beat Collingwood, who also copped a harsh run. Last year, Richmond lost key players for much of the year as well - although they had most of their best 22 back for finals, they were still missing arguably their most influential player in Rance.

2 minutes ago, Yung Blood said:

I don't think we're missing a superstar.

I suspect we are - although there are a few on our list with the potential. History shows that there have been very, very few grand final teams without genuinely elite talent (i.e., players that supporters from other clubs would regard as among the best in the AFL for their position). Max is currently our only elite player by this measure - as good as Oliver is, he's clearly a rung or two below Fyfe, Dusty, Bontempelli et al at this point. Here's hoping that Petracca can be that player for us. 

[rufus 930]

We have a pretty strong midfield but I'm uncertain how much better our forward line will be than last year. And our first choice backline is very poor with poor depth behind it. You can't win a flag with a struggling backline.

[jnrmac 19,326]

1. Belief: in themselves and the game plan

2. Luck with injuries

 

That's it

[Young Blood 2,036]

6 minutes ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

 

I suspect we are - although there are a few on our list with the potential. History shows that there have been very, very few grand final teams without genuinely elite talent (i.e., players that supporters from other clubs would regard as among the best in the AFL for their position). Max is currently our only elite player by this measure - as good as Oliver is, he's clearly a rung or two below Fyfe, Dusty, Bontempelli et al at this point. Here's hoping that Petracca can be that player for us. 

Yeah I agree we don't currently have a superstar but we're developing them hopefully as you said. So yeah maybe I take it back we need one but maybe not from another club.

It's interesting I feel that its around 24-25 yrs you really get an idea of what a players ceiling looks like. Guys like Petracca, Brayshaw and Viney are in that category so I think this is a defining season for them. Maybe Viney we know but the other two I think will be the difference to how far we go into finals the next few years.

At just 22 yrs old Clayton is the obvious next superstar of this club. His game style is different to many of the ones you mentioned from other clubs but he's so effective and impacts games already. I think he'll go up another notch this year. His kicking has increased each year and hopefully he finds that balance, some more composure, marking and starts to hit the score board. He's well on the way.

[WA Demon Boy 966]

22 minutes ago, rufus said:

We have a pretty strong midfield but I'm uncertain how much better our forward line will be than last year. And our first choice backline is very poor with poor depth behind it. You can't win a flag with a struggling backline.

True

We need our mids to hit the scoreboard more - Trac (should), Brayshaw (can but not often enough) Viney (rarely) and Oliver (could easily if he kicked the ball more) and Langdon/Tomlinson can kick 2 between them that'd be a bonus.

Richmond/GWS have so many mids who can kick goals and that's something we lack. 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

On 3/12/2020 at 11:11 AM, Deemania since 56 said:

We need a speedy, running CHB with mongrel. This player must be an interceptor, a feeder and physically very tough as well. A Steven Icke-type, who plays like Gary Hardeman could. 

Gary Hardeman's are one in a generation.

[Damo 3,026]

If Tom Mac comes good all the other puzzles fit together.

[spirit of norm smith 13,431]

Two things needed

1- minimum injuries 

2- a key forward to kick the big goals when needed (Franklin, Cameron , Lynch, Kennedy). Not sure Tmac or Weid are that man. Hope so. 

[Lord Travis 10,278]

1. A key forward who kicks lots goals. (Maybe TMac? Otherwise no one on list).

2. A small crumbing forward who kicks lots of goals. (Maybe Kozzie? Otherwise likely no one on list). 

3. A superstar midfielder. One with lace, strength and goal scoring ability. (Petracca is closest we have potential-wise. Otherwise no one on list). 

4. An elite rebounding defender. (Rivers?)
 

Our main issue is a lack of consistent high goal kickers. If TMac doesn’t fire this year, we can’t challenge.

[Demons1858 1,663]

We need our own Dusty ... it's no co-incidence that Richmond has dominated in the same period he has become arguably the best player in the comp. Without him they are just another team in the top 8

[Deemania since 56 6,245]

9 hours ago, nosoupforme said:

Gary Hardeman's are one in a generation.

Yeah, it is a big ask....one might dream.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

A competent coach.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

Skills and decision making

[monoccular 16,408]

At this stage the first requirement would be an actual football season?

[gOLLy 401]

Jessie Hogan

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

2 hours ago, gOLLy said:

Jessie Hogan

Jack Watts

[Guest]

Everrryythink

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

The missing ingredient is a decent plan for the forward line.  We have no discernible structure and still persist with the blind bomb forward which is inevitably gobbled up by the defence who are set up to capitalise on it while our own forwards are either up on the wings being "mobile" or all flying for the same mark and crashing into each other.  We don't need a Tony Lockett or Buddy Franklin up there, the players we have would be perfectly adequate if they were working as a unit and had even average delivery. 

[Fanatique Demon 2,416]

Heart

[Sir Why You Little 34,941]

The ability to handle pressure 

[faultydet 7,593]

A winners mindset.

[Demon Disciple 11,137]

A coach that has at least some level of coaching nous

[dimmy 1,146]

10 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

The missing ingredient is a decent plan for the forward line.  We have no discernible structure and still persist with the blind bomb forward which is inevitably gobbled up by the defence who are set up to capitalise on it while our own forwards are either up on the wings being "mobile" or all flying for the same mark and crashing into each other.  We don't need a Tony Lockett or Buddy Franklin up there, the players we have would be perfectly adequate if they were working as a unit and had even average delivery. 

Exactly , Hibberd and Langdon in particular had a lot of the ball and did not hit targets OR did not even looked for targets. I cannot blame the forwards because of this strategy. They are are like sitting ducks. Even Neitz would have trouble kicking a score because the ball would be coming over his head all the time. OMac and May at least kicked to a receiver to set a pattern in place .

In order to kick a winning score there must be some lowering of eyes !!! We got slaughtered on the rebound ( plus the three attocious handballs that directly lead to goals did not help. Having said that they only kicked 11 Goals (with their 2 key fwds being well held.

 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

Symbiosis,  amongst our players.