14 hours ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Are you saying Gawn is soft? 

Yes, compared to Viney.

 

Gawn wins player vote.  Mmmm.  Ok.

Players boycott camp.  Players whinge about what else we don’t know about.

 

Unless you are blessed with talent to the highest percentile, you need an edge to get to be competitive in the last fortnight in September.  Invariably that edge is mental toughness, sometimes it’s the coaches box (Bulldogs 97/98), and sometimes it’s luck (Adelaide 98).  This group relies on rolling the dice for snake eyes.

 

 

 

pTGR

 

2 hours ago, nosoupforme said:

Max Gawn will make a great captain no doubt and will lead by example. However some of us are quick to kick Viney in the guts by saying that they never liked him as captain because of his demeanor. Viney gives his all although he had problems with his foot he battled through it and managed to help us win some vital games in 2018. In the finals he gave his all and lead from the front.

Viney outpointed Selwood in the finals which was great to watch and went a long way in us winning.. A real Melbourne boy that burns in his guts.

Gawn or Viney or both as captain it wouldn't matter. They lead on and off the ground by example. .

Personally I hope Jack remains in the leadership group and the change is sold to him on the basis of restricted availability for extra leadership  functions due to coming fatherhood and allowing him to concentrate more on his own game.

Don’t think it is a good situation if he thinks his teammates think poorly of him.

14 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You're just a caricature of yourself now. Whatever the club did you would have had a crack. If they had've stuck with Viney or gone co-captains it would've been "typical conservative Melbourne, too scared to take a chance on someone who has a bit of character, too scared to back themselves in and admit they made a mistake appointing Viney as captain, still stuck in the old Hollywood Boulevard days etc etc"

You’d have a scintilla of a pseudo argument if you could find an anti-Viney post anywhere in my cyber history.

You are right though; I have had a crack at the club for most of the 2005-current.  When you then look at the deep chronic failure of the club in this time, bar the Roos effect (who BTW I have been criticised for adulating particularly pre 2014), then my criticism has been substantiated squared.  Conversely, the tsunami of back-slappers that have monotonously responded with the club-knows-best mantra, have an over-supply of cardiac tissue and an under-supply of grey matter.

22 minutes ago, TGR said:

Yes, compared to Viney.

 

Gawn wins player vote.  Mmmm.  Ok.

Players boycott camp.  Players whinge about what else we don’t know about.

 

Unless you are blessed with talent to the highest percentile, you need an edge to get to be competitive in the last fortnight in September.  Invariably that edge is mental toughness, sometimes it’s the coaches box (Bulldogs 97/98), and sometimes it’s luck (Adelaide 98).  This group relies on rolling the dice for snake eyes.

 

 

 

pTGR

 

So you’re saying Gawn is physically and mentally soft? 

Edited February 22, 20205 yr by Deemented Are Go!

I only saw Nathan Jones as Captain previosly. Not out of protest against Viney, just saw Viney as a kid and I think he was made captain too early.

Max is a top bloke, I hope the players have made a good decision. If Max inspires the players to rally behind him, then so be it.

29 minutes ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

So you’re saying Gawn is physically and mentally soft? 

No, not to his face.

10 hours ago, Lampers said:

I’m guessing with no direct evidence he would be the sort of leader who may berate a teammate for a mistake rather than encourage them to keep going - a very dangerous approach unless you are 100% infallible yourself.

I find this interesting and I understand your post is about Gawn and Viney. You make no mention of May at all, I’m just curious to see who agrees with the above. The same people that think May should be in the leadership group?

I think we all have seen a lot games without having to guess whether Viney has berated or not berated teammates.

 If the story is accurate I’m happy for Max, I just feel there’s been some unreasonable comments towards Viney on this thread.

Viney should have been given the chance to step down.

54 minutes ago, TGR said:

You’d have a scintilla of a pseudo argument if you could find an anti-Viney post anywhere in my cyber history.

You are right though; I have had a crack at the club for most of the 2005-current.  When you then look at the deep chronic failure of the club in this time, bar the Roos effect (who BTW I have been criticised for adulating particularly pre 2014), then my criticism has been substantiated squared.  Conversely, the tsunami of back-slappers that have monotonously responded with the club-knows-best mantra, have an over-supply of cardiac tissue and an under-supply of grey matter.

You are my favourite poster purely because of the obscure content you put out. 

28 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Viney should have been given the chance to step down.

Do we know that he wasn't?

25 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Do we know that he wasn't?

Of course he wasnt.....lets have a player vote first, dont worry nobody will find out !!

18 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Lets be honest, not surprising at all. Only reason why he was captain was the likes of McCartney and Goodwin who elevated him straight away. 

Now that the players have been given the opportunity to vote, this shows who they respect and look to as their leader. 

Never have rated Viney as a leader. I look at Lever, May and Gawn and they stand for everything you need in a leader. Commendable and respected. Viney is not that.

How is May everything you need in a leader? Rocked up to the club in disgraceful shape then went on the [censored] when he was injured. Not to mention he can't get on the park.

Just now, Wadda We Sing said:

Of course he wasnt.....lets have a player vote first, dont worry nobody will find out !!

How were the club to know they players wouldn't vote for him? 

Someone (perhaps Viney) said at the start of preseason that all leadership positions were open. Does it suck for him? Yes. Is it the clubs fault? No

1 hour ago, Dee Zephyr said:

I find this interesting and I understand your post is about Gawn and Viney. You make no mention of May at all, I’m just curious to see who agrees with the above. The same people that think May should be in the leadership group?

I think we all have seen a lot games without having to guess whether Viney has berated or not berated teammates.

 If the story is accurate I’m happy for Max, I just feel there’s been some unreasonable comments towards Viney on this thread.

Maybe I was a bit harsh on the likely to berate, perhaps it’s the lack of obvious signs of connecting with team mates and bringing them along.

Viney seems quite insular.

On May I also have been a bit puzzled as to why he is a leader as I’ve not seen what I’d expect from a leader.

There is the famous time he did berate Frost, but Frost is also not at the club anymore. Maybe May is the one with the courage to call someone out who consistently breaks team rules or instructions - which is likely what Frost was doing and potentially led to that incident and his subsequent “sacking”.

There is leadership in having the tough conversations.

The players themselves will know best what they value from their leaders.

2 hours ago, TGR said:

No, not to his face.

What a Clown. 
you would poo ? your pants on the spot if Max Gawn ever said hello to you. 
Go back to your Cave with a Candle ? 

49 minutes ago, TheoX said:

How is May everything you need in a leader? Rocked up to the club in disgraceful shape then went on the [censored] when he was injured. Not to mention he can't get on the park.

Such a overblown comment..

We don't seem to handle the captaincy well if recent history is any guide. Hope this is not another example

The Club structures broke down last year, totally. People can sugarcoat it as much as they like, but it was a complete breakdown. 
bad form improves within weeks, last year was a total crash. 
Both Captains were not up to it, that’s just a reality. 
both needed to be replaced, thankfully it has happened. 
One of them is lucky to still be playing, his form last year was terrible, just jogging around. 
Viney is our bulldozer, that is his game. Let him concentrate on that. 
 

Ever Since Grimes and Trengove were thrown the Captaincies (I don’t blame them) the whole Leadership role has been a shambles. 
Max will straighten the Boys out. 
1 Captain with one Voice

 

Just because you aren't Captain doesn't mean you can't lead.

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

Just because you aren't Captain doesn't mean you can't lead.

Exactly. Viney knows the Centre Square. 
i don’t think he knew much else

can everyone please stop quoting tgr; i don't need to see his meandering misanthropy and clear disdain for the mfc

It’s the right way to go. Jack will still very much be a spiritual leader and continue to lead by example on the field. It also doesn’t rule out regaining the role down the track. 

Captaincy is never an exact science. 

5 hours ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Of course he wasnt.....lets have a player vote first, dont worry nobody will find out !!

Re-stating your view and making assumptions is not actually evidence. So, let me ask in another way, what evidence is there that Viney wasn't given the option of standing down? As I haven't seen any evidence, I have no idea whether he was given that chance or not. 

On 2/21/2020 at 7:37 PM, Beetle said:

Spewed up on Tom Scully in China and now soul captain...

Its a big yes from me.

That’s bloody funni but u should be banned for using that scum bags name on Dland. 

My view is this is the best call for the club.

I don't agree with @jnrmac all that often but it is important to remember that Viney can show leadership without being captain.

My view has always been that he is a poor captain. There is more to leadership than putting your body on the line (not that I've ever once considered Gawn to lack that capability) and I've always had the impression Viney's just not suited to captaincy.