Dees poach Port data analyst

[Skuit 10,031]

Intriguing. I recall some of his analysis had been referred to on this site a couple years ago with respect to where we were taking our shots on goal - i.e. as close as possible with minimal angle; something I had been mildly critical of - as forgetting the pros and cons I felt it was curtailing footy instincts (and in my opinion led to the demise of Garlett, among other issues).

I've always believed Simon is an out-an-out stats-nut - looking to uncover small advantages in an increasingly tight competition on the gains v losses ledger. The high press is a perfect case in point (and for the record, I don't think we genuinely fired a shot with respect to the game-plan in 2019). We leak like mad, it looks ugly, but then we hope to outscore through the attacking advantage. 

That's fine. Simple. But then questions emerged around feasibility. Is the game-style too exhausting to maintain for example? Along with other potentially unforeseen consequences. I think Simon is super-bright as to tactically analysing the long-game of football, but the recruitment of Rob may help sharpen up the insights and bring balance to what we implement.  

Edit: Here's maybe the article I was referring to. https://figuringfooty.com/2017/08/10/the-quality-and-quantity-of-shots-created-by-each-club/

Edited October 27, 2019 by Skuit

[Demon Dynasty 17,165]

The top clubs are using these blokes to drill down and find weaknesses / strengths of both individual players, line trends and game style trends (short and medium terms also).

They look to expose or uncover these strengths weaknesses wherever possible, in many cases we are talking about small incremental gains or losses each week (where teams are closely matched) that might turn the tide a few percent in a player/teams' favour.

Don't discount their value as most of the top clubs have them and from interviews i've listened to over the last few years, most coaches utilise them both at line level and in some case up to the head coach, depending on his view of 'value added' in this field.  Some coaches can't stand it and will distance themselves and/or leave it at line level (including post match reviews on Monday) to sort out.

The bottom line is, most top clubs are using them to extract the nth degree out of their players and to counter the opposition's players and game style from week to week looking for recent change ups / match ups and game day tactics the opp might be using etc etc.

Why wouldn't we want to add this to our arsenal to counter the opp using it against us?  Would be crazy not to if affordable.  Anything that helps with game day analysis / incremental advantages etc has to be a good move imv.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[DeeSpencer 26,681]

3 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Didn't seem to help Port a real lot.

They nailed 3 really good draft picks last year. The draft is often where analytics first comes in to sports, it's easier to quantify numbers on who is likely to be successful whilst it takes a while to change game plans - partly because coaches are often so restrictive to change.

I'd also argue that after losing Wingard and Polec that Port started the season very well - as they often do - then lost their way down the stretch as Kenny started messing with the game plan and selection.

 

[Adam The God 30,740]

24 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

The top clubs are using these blokes to drill down and find weaknesses / strengths of both individual players, line trends and game style trends (short and medium terms also).

They look to expose or uncover these strengths weaknesses wherever possible, in many cases we are talking about small incremental gains or losses each week (where teams are closely matched) that might turn the tide a few percent in a player/teams' favour.

Don't discount their value as most of the top clubs have them and from interviews i've listened to over the last few years, most coaches utilise them both at line level and in some case up to the head coach, depending on his view of 'value added' in this field.  Some coaches can't stand it and will distance themselves and/or leave it at line level (including post match reviews on Monday) to sort out.

The bottom line is, most top clubs are using them to extract the nth degree out of their players and to counter the opposition's players and game style from week to week looking for recent change ups / match ups and game day tactics the opp might be using etc etc.

Why wouldn't we want to add this to our arsenal to counter the opp using it against us?  Would be crazy not to if affordable.  Anything that helps with game day analysis / incremental advantages etc has to be a good move imv.

I assumed his appointment means that the Jennings role has been made redundant in the FD shake up.

[Skuit 10,031]

16 minutes ago, A F said:

I assumed his appointment means that the Jennings role has been made redundant in the FD shake up.

Wasn't there some other data dude who just left? I didn't look into it much but got the impression he had been there a while - and maybe not entirely qualified for the role in a contemporary landscape. 

[JakovichScissorKick 771]

Cool

[alpha33 327]

Just out of interest who did the data analysis at the club this year!

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 11,064]

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

That was at Port.

Some clubs use the title Senior Assistant Coach.  I think both are the Head Coach's right arm man.  So I'm guessing it will be Richardson for Goodwin.  I think Goodwin was the SAC under Roos.

If your question is who was our 'data analyst' I'm not sure we had one in the contemporary context.  We have 'football analysts' but my guess is they use more traditional and less sophisticated techniques and tools than Younger brings.

Cheers Lucifer.

From all that I can easily find on the interweb Richardson officially doesn't have a title as yet, but I guess that Senior Assistant would be more or less the role he would be expected to slot into once the dust settles.

My question was more who was our Head Asistant Coach season 2019?

I think the answer to that might be Brendan McCarthy, but the last position he had was a development role or possibly Jade Rawlings.  I thought Rawlings actual last title before departing was as forwards line coach, but he seemed to have the stature around the club as being a senior assistant.  Interestingly, Rawlings title at North is actually Senior Assistant Coach.

I know a title is just that and people will perform in roles outside of their strict title, but I do wonder if this lack of clear hierarchy under Goodwin was part of the reason for  a lack of cohesion which 'apparently' (not sure I buy into this conspiracy one way or another) occured within our coaching ranks this season? 

[John Demonic 5,988]

12 minutes ago, alpha33 said:

Just out of interest who did the data analysis at the club this year!

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

4 hours ago, old dee said:

With the exception Goodloss is there anyone we haven't changed?

Who is Mahoney?

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Unleash Hell
Am i playing this game right?

[Moonshadow 17,678]

4 hours ago, Kent said:

Yawn not convinced it makes any difference

Perhaps it's an age thing 

Any way welcome who ever you are.

 

You've yawned twice in one page. Time for bed old man

[spirit of norm smith 16,679]

Don’t need an analyst to tell you

our field kicking is the worst in the league 

our lack of run and pace in the midfield 

our poor delivery inside forward 50

our poor kicking for goal

 

Much prefer skills skills skills focus 

[dpositive 1,838]

Sometimes its good to know how bad you are.

But it's even better to know how bad your opponents are.

Hope he can bring both sets of data to the club.

This detail can inspire coaches and players to improve performance.

Will watch with nterest but uncertain if we will ever be informed.

[dpositive 1,838]

It's a game of infinite variables but chaos theory says there are patterns in the data.

Lets unlock the information and use it wisely

[binman 44,832]

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I think this is a great appointment.  There is so much data that it is easy for clubs to drown in it or traditional 'football analysts' to use it simplistically.  It takes work and skill converting it to meaningful information that non techies can understand in an instant.  That covers both the presentation of data and more importantly providing real insight into a game and extracting the important aspects for decisions and strategy .

This is how he described his role at Port, on Linedin:

• Providing and communicating advanced statistical analysis of game trends, teams, and players to key members within the football department.
• Presenting team strategy and opposition analysis to the Head Assistant Coach both during the week and on gameday.
• Maintaining a stable data infrastructure with many different users and active data sources in Adelaide and around the country.

Last year the Saints poached the Hawks equivalent to Robert Younger, Darren O'Shaughnessy who had been with Clarkson for 7 years. 

The is an essential role at a football club and look forward to the impact Rob's work has.

 

LH, your research and thoroughness in your  posts is impressive. One of the reasons why dl is a legitimate alternative for me to mainstream football media.

[Sir Why You Little 37,458]

I don’t mind the Appointment at all, but isn’t this what Craig Jennings was doing. Sure sounded like it when he was interviewed on Radio. 
 

Let’s hope Rob is much better at it, because Jennings sure over Complicated a fairly simple Game!!

[Deefiant 441]

To everyone bashing this appointment. I suggest you go on his website and look at the stuff he was putting out there before he signed on with Port. 

For example http://figuringfooty.com/2016/09/22/a-fresh-way-to-think-about-footy-gws-v-western-bulldogs-guest-post/. If you don't think this type of stuff is valuable. You probably also think think the fat footballers of yesteryear would smash fitter footballers now cause they kicked higher scores.

[FireInTheBennelly 4,104]

It's good news, but I'm really hoping we're not going into the 2020 season without a very good Forward line coach. At this stage we don't have one at all.

[Males 578]

North Melbourne also poached Glenn Luff from Champion Data last season to do the roll their.

[Sorry kids 635]

Port Adelaide, the well known and envied Silicon Valley of the AFL. 

[Sorry kids 635]

10 hours ago, Skuit said:

Intriguing. I recall some of his analysis had been referred to on this site a couple years ago with respect to where we were taking our shots on goal - i.e. as close as possible with minimal angle; something I had been mildly critical of - as forgetting the pros and cons I felt it was curtailing footy instincts (and in my opinion led to the demise of Garlett, among other issues).

I've always believed Simon is an out-an-out stats-nut - looking to uncover small advantages in an increasingly tight competition on the gains v losses ledger. The high press is a perfect case in point (and for the record, I don't think we genuinely fired a shot with respect to the game-plan in 2019). We leak like mad, it looks ugly, but then we hope to outscore through the attacking advantage. 

That's fine. Simple. But then questions emerged around feasibility. Is the game-style too exhausting to maintain for example? Along with other potentially unforeseen consequences. I think Simon is super-bright as to tactically analysing the long-game of football, but the recruitment of Rob may help sharpen up the insights and bring balance to what we implement.  

Edit: Here's maybe the article I was referring to. https://figuringfooty.com/2017/08/10/the-quality-and-quantity-of-shots-created-by-each-club/

Robert Younger, who works in analytics at Port Adelaide, wrote on Twitter that data from the past five seasons reveals the average footballer, under average pressure, kicks the Gawn shot 83 per cent of the time.

[Lucifers Hero 40,728]

9 hours ago, Skuit said:

Wasn't there some other data dude who just left? I didn't look into it much but got the impression he had been there a while - and maybe not entirely qualified for the role in a contemporary landscape. 

It was Pete Roberts, Football Technology Manager who was part of Mahoney's Football Department.  I think he had been there 7/8 years.  It is possible that he didn't keep up with industry changes.   Glen Luff and Rob Younger are both ex Champion Data so would be really up to date and know how to use the raw data for decision making.  We also have two Football Analysts.

iirc there was a time when each line coach had their own Data Analyst but that seems to have gone long ago.

I would guess the new Data Analyst role supersedes or changes some of Football Analyst/Technology roles.  Hopefully the new role is part of the Coaching Group and not part of the Football Department as the coaches will be his primary 'clients' during the season.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Mickey 4,777]

11 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

It was Pete Roberts, Football Technology Manager who was part of Mahoney's Football Department.  I think he had been there 7/8 years.  It is possible that he didn't keep up with industry changes.   Glen Luff and Rob Younger are both ex Champion Data so would be really up to date and know how to use the raw data for decision making.  We also have two Football Analysts.

iirc there was a time when each line coach had their own Data Analyst but that seems to have gone long ago.

I would guess the new Data Analyst role supersedes or changes some of Football Analyst/Technology roles.  Hopefully the new role is part of the Coaching Group and not part of the Football Department as the coaches will be his primary 'clients' during the season.

The article does note we are looking to employ 3 part time data assistants (or technicians. Can't quite remember).

Seems like they are really beefing this part of the footy ops up

[deebug 1,754]

Hay if it wins us a flag, I'm all in?

[sue 9,277]

11 hours ago, John Demonic said:

No, that's not last year's data analyst.  It's just one of our relentlessly negative posters at work.