Farewell Sam Frost

[Macca 16,604]

16 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

No bargaining chip at all.  Our only real option is to equal another club's offer which seems unlikely on the mixed reports.

Yes, he becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent.  We have to delist him before he can enter the draft. 

But as soon as we delist him (if we did) someone would snap him up as an UFA as he can walk to the club of his choice and we get zip.

If he wants to go best we get a trade done.

Well if he goes,  he goes. He's no star but he does have value in the sense that our backline lacks depth.  May & Lever have to stay fit otherwise we're back to Oscar or perhaps Petty.  Doesn't inspire LH.

The off-season should always be looked upon as the sum of all parts though.  A loss here,  a win there,  so to speak. 

In the end the Hawks might be offering reasonable coin over a 3 year contract (if the rumours are true) whilst we might not want to go beyond a year or 2.  And you can never blame a player for maximising a decent deal for themselves.  It's a short career on average.

[jumbo returns 6,703]

I wonder whether this is more than just about coin

Does anyone think that the (very public) bust up with May is a potential factor?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

23 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Does anyone think that the (very public) bust up with May is a potential factor?

@mauriesy thoughts? 

[spirit of norm smith 15,116]

12 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I don't understand your post. 

For every positive piece of play you name, I could name a negative one. 

I hold an indifferent view when it comes to Frost. I mean, if we got a second round pick for the former rookie we'd be laughing but if we didn't I'd rather persist. 

The point is that there seems to be an imbalance in the views of supporters on here in regards to what Frost offers. 

Why name all of those positive plays without acknowledging the goals he gifts opposition sides, free kicks he gives away or turnovers he makes? It doesn't make sense. 

Negativity again. It’s your ongoing moaning.  Look at the big picture.  He was one of the shining lights in a dismal disappointing year.  That’s not in doubt.  Yes he makes a turnover or two but his run and competitive streak are unquestionable. 

[Redleg 40,066]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

I wonder whether this is more than just about coin

Does anyone think that the (very public) bust up with May is a potential factor?

No.

[Mach5 4,599]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

I wonder whether this is more than just about coin

Does anyone think that the (very public) bust up with May is a potential factor?

Yes to the first part, no to the second.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,012]

I'd be mightily peeved if we lost Frosty.  He's just gotten his game sorted out.  He's fast, powerful and more durable than our other key defenders.  We can't let him walk, especially not to the bloody Hawks. 

[Pates 9,625]

I'll be frustrated if Frost goes, zero doubt in my mind that with May and Lever fit, Frost fits in nicely as the second KPD with Lever floating as an interception defender. He has great speed which is great for breaking lines and chasing down players that underestimate him. 

Why can't it be Oscar touring Waverley?!

[Wells 11 5,264]

2 minutes ago, Pates said:

I'll be frustrated if Frost goes, zero doubt in my mind that with May and Lever fit, Frost fits in nicely as the second KPD with Lever floating as an interception defender. He has great speed which is great for breaking lines and chasing down players that underestimate him. 

Why can't it be Oscar touring Waverley?!

Because the hawks are a smart outfit. 

[Mach5 4,599]

10 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I'd be mightily peeved if we lost Frosty.  He's just gotten his game sorted out.  He's fast, powerful and more durable than our other key defenders.  We can't let him walk, especially not to the bloody Hawks. 

How is his game “sorted out”? He’s more than a liability with the ball in his hands, his actions directly lead to opposition goals from incredibly bad decisions and skill execution. We can’t move him on quick enough.

Not to mention the “other” issues...

[old55 22,777]

On 9/10/2019 at 5:49 PM, Laughing Goat said:

Typical Melbourne.....one of the only blokes who is a 100m player & whilst his efficiency isn't ideal I love how he takes the game on  attacks from the back half.

Exactly the type of player we need to keep.....we are not going to get extra outside run from Tomlinson.

Frost is 309th in the league for average metres gained. He's even well behind Stretch!  Salem is our best at 47th.

A lot of talk here about Frost's alleged attacking abilities. I think where he showed great improvement is his defensive abilities - uses his closing speed well and can stop tall (Ben Brown) or small (Elliott).

I'm dubious we'll get enough value for him in a pick trade - probably a pick in the late 20s.  If we trade him I hope it's for a player we need.

[binman 41,945]

17 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Frost is 309th in the league for average metres gained. He's even well behind Stretch!  Salem is our best at 47th.

A lot of talk here about Frost's alleged attacking abilities. I think where he showed great improvement is his defensive abilities - uses his closing speed well and can stop tall (Ben Brown) or small (Elliott).

I'm dubious we'll get enough value for him in a pick trade - probably a pick in the late 20s.  If we trade him I hope it's for a player we need.

I can understand why people would not want to lose Frost. However looking at it objectively my sense is that there might be tendency to over rate his performance this year based on him being one of the few players who improved and gave us some joy in such a truly dismal season.

As an example many. myself included, might have assumed metres gained might have been one of his strengths given his speed and desire to run and carry the ball. But the stats suggest that is not the case

If we trade him we will see where the market rates him. Late second round would be my guess.

[monoccular 17,314]

23 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Classic stuff here.

Firstly, no one is after May as he just came to the club and signed a long term deal.

Secondly, Tomlinson can't be overpriced as we can get the bloke for free on a decent contract.

Thirdly, what are the other instances of poor list management?  I know we had a shocker of a season, but list management hasn't been the cause of that.  We haven't lost anyone of significance and we've added some very handy players over the last 3-4 years, while signing up many of the kids that are crucial to our long term goals.

Well we let Barassi go, and we overpaid for Tillbrook. 

[John Crow Batty 8,766]

If the Hawks rate him then he must have some value that they can exploit that we miss and some on here don’t wont to respect. Those that way overate the likes of Jones and Viney more like it.

Edited September 13, 2019 by america de cali

[John Crow Batty 8,766]

15 minutes ago, monoccular said:

Well we let Barassi go, and we overpaid for Tillbrook. 

Kelvin Templeton and Mitch Clark to name a couple more. Peter Moore gave us the the aura of success like of a gilded pig in a pig sty.

Edited September 13, 2019 by america de cali

[mauriesy 7,153]

14 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

@mauriesy thoughts? 

I don't have any thoughts. I'm not going to speculate and then act as if it's fact like some do here;.

Edited September 13, 2019 by mauriesy

[AshleyH30 566]

My gut feel with this is; If we sign Elliot, Frost will go. If we don't sign Elliot, Frost will stay. There's no guarantees in life. But, I ask you; who would you rather?

Unfortunately, the question's not easy because you have to take into account the various injuries we've had this year, as well as Elliot's previous injuries. But if it was based on talent and potential impact in the side, I would pick Elliot in a heartbeat.

Edited September 13, 2019 by AshleyH30

[binman 41,945]

49 minutes ago, america de cali said:

If the Hawks rate him then he must have some value that they can exploit that we miss and some on here don’t wont to respect. Those that way overate the likes of Jones and Viney more like it.

How do you know the Hawks rate him?

[spirit of norm smith 15,116]

14 hours ago, Pates said:

I'll be frustrated if Frost goes, zero doubt in my mind that with May and Lever fit, Frost fits in nicely as the second KPD with Lever floating as an interception defender. He has great speed which is great for breaking lines and chasing down players that underestimate him. 

Why can't it be Oscar touring Waverley?!

Oscar spotted touring Upper Ferntree Gully facilities. 

[spirit of norm smith 15,116]

Ok harsh

[monoccular 17,314]

7 hours ago, AshleyH30 said:

My gut feel with this is; If we sign Elliot, Frost will go. If we don't sign Elliot, Frost will stay. There's no guarantees in life. But, I ask you; who would you rather?

Unfortunately, the question's not easy because you have to take into account the various injuries we've had this year, as well as Elliot's previous injuries. But if it was based on talent and potential impact in the side, I would pick Elliot in a heartbeat.

Other than Hore*, and it is very early days yet but promising at least, who have we done well with out of Colonwood?

Dawes? H? BenKen? 

Wouldn't trust them in a hurry quite frankly. 

* and as I recall Hore wasn’t a trade. 

[Demonstone 21,753]

I think the difference this time is that Collingwood are not trying to foist Elliott onto us as a trade.

They would prefer he stayed, but he is a free agent who may choose to leave for more dollars/longer contract/ whatever.

[Willmoy1947 3,957]

54 minutes ago, demonstone said:

I think the difference this time is that Collingwood are not trying to foist Elliott onto us as a trade.

They would prefer he stayed, but he is a free agent who may choose to leave for more dollars/longer contract/ whatever.

They just want us to take Moore as well.......

[Brownie 5,852]

4 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Ok harsh

On Ferntree Gully?

[dl4e 5,843]

12 hours ago, AshleyH30 said:

My gut feel with this is; If we sign Elliot, Frost will go. If we don't sign Elliot, Frost will stay. There's no guarantees in life. But, I ask you; who would you rather?

.

Frost in a heartbeat.