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Roos: Lazy Dees

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6 hours ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

Honestly unless your career is on the line why would you be busting your gut? The season is done 

We also rushed around last year to sign our players up on stupidly longer deals and earlier than needed, just to keep the list together, maybe they’re happy collecting their paycheque and Goodwin has lost them already, bad scenario for the club I’m starting to think. They also rushed Goodwins extension which is just plain dumb.

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Posted (edited)

You mostly play how you train.

Goody's mantra has always been "numbers at the contest".  Let's overwhelm the opp.

Does he have them in "group think" mode instead of individuals all playing their role to tee?

The slackness of Gus in that clip is astonishingly amateur.  The opposition analysts/line coaches must have a chuckle (internallly) watching the way we go about things in their reviews.

"Hey let's get our best ball user onto Gus no matter what...get our extractor to flick it out to him wherever possible as he'll have plenty of breathing room to spread and finish.  There's pretty much no two way running/effort or accountability with him".... rinse and repeat.

And if Gus aint the only slacker, the opp is probably doing more of the same with multiple outside options.

Then there's the structure.  All those Pie players just sitting off the contest fat & forward waiting for the clearance so they  can run towards the middle / arc in waves on the overlap.

Talk about easy to beat.  The leaders also have to answer here.  Lewis im sure brings something and we've generally seen the defence hold up "ok".  I wonder where the others are at?  There's only so much any individual can do on game day to fix this though.  It needs to be entrenched on the track and with line coach teachings/reviews etc.

You can have all the talent, fitness, stength and conditioning you like, if they aren't training and playing to some very solid team structures, disciplines and carrying out effective individual roles on the day, you can kiss your season goodbye in a flash at this level...along with many a career.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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What’s happened to training the last couple of weeks? I’ve seen at least twice on the website training has been rescheduled away from Goschs, possibly to Casey but the surface looked well below standard a few weeks ago. A DL reporter posted a possible cancelation last week after only spotting a handful of players doing some rehab. 

Even the player training report videos by players has disappeared the last fortnight. 

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I know we all love Gus, he seems like an absolute ripper of a bloke, but he hasn't run two ways for most of the year.

Last year he was 'dropped' for not putting in the required effort and he used that to turn it into a good year, why are we accepting these performances from him this year?

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Easy to potshot Gus here, but if you look closely at the vision as the ball is in dispute, there's 5 Dees players vs 3 Pies players contesting the ball.

At that point, Gus is moving away from Pendlebury in anticipation of the ball coming out to our advantage. 

We should be potting others that lost the ball, and who let the ball get to Sidebottom before we have a go at Gus.

DeesPies.thumb.png.3241274a6f383c2cbb8fc88a3990e36b.png

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18 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

Easy to potshot Gus here, but if you look closely at the vision as the ball is in dispute, there's 5 Dees players vs 3 Pies players contesting the ball.

At that point, Gus is moving away from Pendlebury in anticipation of the ball coming out to our advantage. 

We should be potting others that lost the ball, and who let the ball get to Sidebottom before we have a go at Gus.

imageproxy.php?img=&key=735da9576a39b017DeesPies.thumb.png.3241274a6f383c2cbb8fc88a3990e36b.png

There is so much going wrong in that picture it beggars belief.

Frame it, put on the wall and tell every player every day that is not how you play modern footy

Its a disgrace.

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Show this to Goodwin as it’s bern happening all year .. what’s happened to working both ways? Roos foundation was built on this. Either players are lazy or the coaches game plan is pathetic!

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Sidebottom with the ball. Draw a circle around him with one Pies player in it, and six Demons, before you get the next closest Pie.

All year we've heard oppo players & coaches talking about this and how they plan to exploit it. And here we are literally months after it first came to light and we are still setting up very obligingly for them to do exactly that.

 

9 hours ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

we can't afford to waste another season.

Pert talking about sustained success over 5+ years before we're taken seriously. Last year was the first of those. That's been thrown away and we're back to square one. If we do this again next year we'll be at square zero!

 

7 hours ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

Honestly unless your career is on the line why would you be busting your gut? The season is done 

Yes it is, and next season has already started for us. We should be working towards next year and practicing that. Trying out new ideas (assuming we have any, ha! ha!). We should have started that 10 rounds ago.

Pulling off some stirring wins to give some hope to demoralised supporters and to get other teams looking over their shoulders. As it is, every other club knows exactly what we're going to do, how to counter it, and we hold no fears for any of them.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

Easy to potshot Gus here, but if you look closely at the vision as the ball is in dispute, there's 5 Dees players vs 3 Pies players contesting the ball.

At that point, Gus is moving away from Pendlebury in anticipation of the ball coming out to our advantage. 

We should be potting others that lost the ball, and who let the ball get to Sidebottom before we have a go at Gus.

imageproxy.php?img=&key=735da9576a39b017DeesPies.thumb.png.3241274a6f383c2cbb8fc88a3990e36b.png

Sorry HW but Gus makes the decision to leave Pendles too early here.  The ground ball is still in dispute with Gus having touch on Pendles but instead of waiting to see who wins, Gus just 'assumes' we will get it out and heads towards goal.  Even after realising we've lost the contest he just stands there ball watching like a junior.

Pendles does not assume and waits a tad longer, watching carefully to see who wins before committing either way.

Jones is also not paying Sidebottom the respect needed with the ball in our defensive half, allowing him space and time to execute under zero pressure.  He actually never impacts on Sidebottom at any stage.

We are slack in structure & mind set. 

Four Pies playing fat side forward as the contest unfolds with Zero MFC players covering goal side as they need to be with the ball still the wrong side of center.  Way too many sucked towards the contest, which we lost anyway.

What we are seeing are defensive standards, practices and mind sets that are a mile from cutting it at AFL level.

If Goody chooses to ignore this aspect going in to 2020 you can kiss next season off already.  You simply can't defend against even mediocre opponents playing in this manner let alone the cream up the top.

When people question how we had so many inside 50s against the Cats but still managed to lose by 80 points....it lays with an extremely innefective forward line plus the super ordinary 'team' defensive methods, structures (or lack thereof) and mind sets we are witnessing here.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

You mostly play how you train.

Goody's mantra has always been "numbers at the contest".  Let's overwhelm the opp.

Does he have them in "group think" mode instead of individuals all playing their role to tee?

The slackness of Gus in that clip is astonishingly amateur.  The opposition analysts/line coaches must have a chuckle (internallly) watching the way we go about things in their reviews.

"Hey let's get our best ball user onto Gus no matter what...get our extractor to flick it out to him wherever possible as he'll have plenty of breathing room to spread and finish.  There's pretty much no two way running/effort or accountability with him".... rinse and repeat.

And if Gus aint the only slacker, the opp is probably doing more of the same with multiple outside options.

Then there's the structure.  All those Pie players just sitting off the contest fat & forward waiting for the clearance so they  can run towards the middle / arc in waves on the overlap.

Talk about easy to beat.  The leaders also have to answer here.  Lewis im sure brings something and we've generally seen the defence hold up "ok".  I wonder where the others are at?  There's only so much any individual can do on game day to fix this though.  It needs to be entrenched on the track and with line coach teachings/reviews etc.

You can have all the talent, fitness, stength and conditioning you like, if they aren't training and playing to some very solid team structures, disciplines and carrying out effective individual roles on the day, you can kiss your season goodbye in a flash at this level...along with many a career.

As you say Goody's mantra is very telling, and reveals the culprit in my mind. I think he has drilled contested ball above all else and now players instinctively go to the contest. 100% this is coaching and I pray Goody has the humility to see the error of his ways before the preseason.

The effort thing is as much despondency i reckon. Yes I think there is a little bit of 'what's the point', which is crap, but mostly I reckon its the response to consistently poor skills and decisions. It happens, the ball goes back the other way and players throw their hands in the air.

I started very much in the bad preseason, injuries and the impact that had on confidence camp.. and to a certain extent still believe it has been a factor. But I'm also now increasingly of the view that the coaching has been a large culprit and would have no issue with Goody being replaced early next year if we're heading the same way again.

This year has completely undermined my enjoyment of the sport. I can't stomach watching other games at the moment and watch most of our games on fast forward.

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The issue in that photo has been here all season, always going to the ball and leaving the man.

that combined with accusations of laziness and work ethic, how much of it is down to (what may be) a potentially flawed game plan?

Or have they just simply downed tools for the year?

 

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8 hours ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

Honestly unless your career is on the line why would you be busting your gut? The season is done 

To keep fans and sponsors from walking away from the club next year.

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12 minutes ago, watchtheeyes said:

This year has completely undermined my enjoyment of the sport. I can't stomach watching other games at the moment and watch most of our games on fast forward.

I am also in the same frame in terms of losing interest in the whole game WTE

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8 hours ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

Honestly unless your career is on the line why would you be busting your gut? The season is done 

Because you want to be a good footballer? Because you're a competitor that hates to lose? Because you have integrity? Because you respect your coach? Because your leaders demand it? I dunno, there's a bunch of reasons why OTHER clubs would do it, not sure about us though.

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21 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Because you want to be a good footballer? Because you're a competitor that hates to lose? Because you have integrity? Because you respect your coach? Because your leaders demand it? I dunno, there's a bunch of reasons why OTHER clubs would do it, not sure about us though.

I'd like to think they have some professional pride but it seems historically as a club, we have little.

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I am also in the same frame in terms of losing interest in the whole game WTE

I remember thinking during the 1st qr of the season after several very soft frees against us.
"Ya know what, if this is the AFL vision of how they want the game umpired from now on ..... I'm about done."
And then watching us proceed to absolutely butcher the season has done nothing to bring me back.
If more of the same is dished up next year ..... I'm gonna have to cut my ties completely.
I've had it up to 'ear with the angst this club has given me throughout my life.
And as I've had plenty of practice, I'll be able to spot the BS early.
Unlike the happy clappers.

Edited by Fork 'em
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9 hours ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

Honestly unless your career is on the line why would you be busting your gut? The season is done 

Mentally checked out brother.

Boys have probably just ordered their Mad Monday costumes and are rubbing their hands with anticipation.

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Tickets to Bali, Vegas and Thailand more likely.

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11 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

It's funny.

Experts point this stuff out with vision to match.

Some of it has been trending for two years as they stated. 

Yet we still have the demonlander cushies talking about Garry slurring.

I guess it's all just wrist slashing hey crew?

I take it you were referring to me with your name calling.

Please point out where I've used the term 'wrist slashing' or where I disagree with what Garry or Roosy said.

You can't.

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I guess when Gus and his brother did those 100x100 metre Xmas day sprints they only ran North/South on the Sandy oval, then walked up the other end and started again.

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27 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Mentally checked out brother.

Boys have probably just ordered their Mad Monday costumes and are rubbing their hands with anticipation.

First they didn't know where to get costumes. Then they ordered them in the wrong sizes and had them sent to the wrong address.

Meanwhile 8 players went to the bottle shop to pick up the booze. They couldn't get in coz they all tried to crush through the door at the same time and fell over. While picking themselves up they saw players from another club strolling off with their booze.

Only one slab was left. The stubbies got passed around but each one was dropped on a player's foot and broke. Everyone got covered with fizzy beer foam. Then they all lost interest and went to another club's Mad Monday where they watched on like sad puppies.

The coaches were invited but none could find their car keys or remember where they parked their cars. Those that eventually did couldn't remember how to get to the venue. They were last seen arguing about a multi car pileup which involved every coach's vehicle.

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The big issue in that clip above is not Gus, but 3 of our players standing boundary side and 4 or 5 Collingwood players UNMANNED on the goal side. Gawny is near the contest because Grundy is thre . Gus is being positive, but the rest are stagnant and in the wrong spot. Josh wagner is too close to the other 3 boundary side. A lot of this is confidence in your team mates..

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This clip is instructive, but not for the Gus contest.  If the kick had of worked, it would have been the Collingwood players that looked 'lazy'.  Gus would have been open, corridor side, ready to go.  The kick was crapola, and the contest became a mugging.

If it were a set-up contest like a ball up, then this is terrible positioning - all on the wrong side, too many committed, lagging off too far.  This is easy to say that in this example, simply because it is what we do at every contest.  It was a clear tacking by the wobblers to have one man out the back or side in the clear to exit stoppages, and we simply acted like a bunch of Labradors that see a tennis ball.

It also speaks to our lack of two way running (we get out of position and then give up and dont chase back) - but given how often the players have run for the man, only for the ball to get butchered, is it any wonder all they can raise is a half-hearted jog?  hen you see Max shaking his head at what is happening, you know this runs deep.

We seem to lack the footy IQ to adjust on the fly.  When this contest happened, the lack on adjustment was clear.  I am out of position - I just stay out of position.  Or I get the ball, even if I get my team mate's way.  We have no cohesion, our system appears overly simple and without flexibility, and our players have no trust in their team mates to do what needs to be done because the have worked together so often that this knowledge is second nature.

Lazy is how it looks, but it is so much deeper than this.

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31 minutes ago, dimmy said:

The big issue in that clip above is not Gus, but 3 of our players standing boundary side and 4 or 5 Collingwood players UNMANNED on the goal side. Gawny is near the contest because Grundy is thre . Gus is being positive, but the rest are stagnant and in the wrong spot. Josh wagner is too close to the other 3 boundary side. A lot of this is confidence in your team mates..

Is Gus being positive... or is Gus being lazy and cheating? 

The astounding thing is the lack of players on the defensive side and who ever the pies player is deep in the 50 has about 15m on his Melbourne opponent. All year we decide to guard space, at some stage you go man on man, shoulder to shoulder and back yourselt to win teh contest.

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11 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Yeah this is bad, but it starts with the awful awful kick I think it is from Hibberd, that instead of going to Gawn as he's running towards the boundary comes in board by about 20m for no reason. 

Then instead of getting extra numbers at the contest sweeping through to win the ball and take it away we end up with a bunch of guys stuck in in no mans land too close.

Midfield play is pretty much a series of dice rolls, knowing when you've got the ball and to take off forward. I don't blame Brayshaw for his initial movement, but to then not turn back is bad. And why at least one of the mids isn't with that collection of Pies mids (who by the way have been lazy and haven't run) is beyond me. The cherry on top is the half forwards aren't smart or quick enough to round up the mids and cover the corridor either.

Pretty much it's bad coaching and it's lazy midfield group, but it's also a team making dreadful skill errors and likely trying to mix up plans to generate ball movement and scoring as well. It's crap that it's gone on all season but it's not an easy one to fix now.

The problem is that the "bees to the honeypot" has been going on for 2 years.  Everyone knows it.  We get the ball we get tackled. They get the ball to the outside and its off to the races. 

It's not rocket science - it's coaching pure and simple. Its structure and discipline. The whole game is structure and discipline. We look lost. The players haven't a clue where to run,  where to stand, when to kick , where to kick etc. When a player is actually instructed to stand like Jones was on the weekend, the players must think WTF??

Nothing to do with injuries. Its about having a plan that the 40 players can understand and  execute. Most clubs do it pretty well yet some here think Goodwin  is the messiah and give him a free pass. We need to be angry at what he has done to our team.  And now its 'imploding' with McCartney, Jennings and others going. 

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