The captain has more impact/say out on the ground than a coach. A book called The Captains Class studies 16 of the most successful sporting teams in history around the world. It revealed they all had one thing in common: an excellent captain. This didn't mean the best player as most of the time they weren't but they had the right characteristics of a good captain. When Jordan won 3 championships with the Bulls the captain was Bill Cartwright and when he left the team didn't win anymore championships even with Jordan.

Book summary:

• An analysis of the greatest pro sports teams in history found captains are critical to a team’s success.

• The best captains play for their teams, not their egos.

• This effect may be just as applicable in the military or the office.

Walker’s top 16 teams had captains who played for their teams rather than their egos, embodied by players like Tim Duncan of the San Antonio Spurs. Duncan sacrificed larger salaries, flashy stats, and media fanfare for the good of his team, Walker argued.

Walker determined that elite captains like Duncan have seven traits.

• They are extremely resilient.
• They play to the limits of the rules.
• They do thankless jobs.
• They communicate clearly with all members of their team.
• They motivate through nonverbal displays.
• They have strong convictions and aren’t afraid to be different.
• They have total control of their emotions.

Now lets look at Jones who Paul Roos said back in 2014 was 'haunted by the past' & expected to lose from experience: https://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-08-03/dees-haunted-by-the-past?fbclid=IwAR1NGm78nDTyAyjX5XnAs3fG26ndirQiO9YQ-9GUWhl1lx8idt-K5sz0QP4

So is a captaincy change what we really need?

Jones can kick to a target. When he concentrates his disposal is fine. Is it because he is haunted, or just cant be routed?

Because of his style and lack of real footy smarts the team has been influenced to play Jones style over many years.

I have always apprecciated Jones' efforts and  desire but he isn't a good enough footballer to make a difference 

Thanks for your efforts Jonesey Enjoy life after Footy.

The AFL Premiership captains of the last decade highlights the theme of the book:  Hurn, Cotchin, Wood, Hodge, Goodes/McVeigh, Ling, Harley, Maxwell.  Only Hodge and Goodes would be considered the best player in the team and Cotchin in top 3/4.  The others were down the list on talent but excelled at on-field leadership/captaincy/footy smarts/team first.  And they have nurtured the next captain. 

Our captains fall short on most of those attributes.  Not much can be done about lack of footy smarts/IQ. 

A reason they fall short is we have for many years not had a captain who has been a good role model.  Neitz was probably the last with the traits of above premiership captains.  So our captains/leaders have had no-one to learn from nor able to nurture the next.  It shows.

Edited August 11, 20195 yr by Lucifer's Hero

Nice premise for a book but not the answer.

There are a myriad of things that bring us to where we are now.

I would think choice of captain is a fair way down that list.

The off season repair job will be massive and the captains will need to have a good hard look at themselves along with every other facet of this disappointment of a club. 

Both Jones and Viney have shown traits of good leadership but are limited when it comes to leading a list of 44 blokes.

The final siren of round 23 can’t come quick enough.

 

Edited August 11, 20195 yr by McQueen

"When Jordan won 3 championships with the Bulls the captain was Bill Cartwright and when he left the team didn't win anymore championships even with Jordan."

Jordan won 6 championships. Three of which when he was captain, after Cartwright retired.

  On 11/08/2019 at 22:59, rjay said:

Nice premise for a book but not the answer.

There are a myriad of things that bring us to where we are now.

I would think choice of captain is a fair way down that list.

At this point, on field leadership is second on the list to the coaching panel of things that need rectifying

 

  On 11/08/2019 at 23:14, jnrmac said:

At this point, on field leadership is second on the list to the coaching panel of things that need rectifying

 

Its second but an important second for the reasons outlined in the thread. 

Watching from the stands on Saturday I could see how often opposition players would get on Jacks left side forcing him right. He may have had a holding the ball or two because of this. I am worried he needs to find form and leave leadership role to others. Nathan gets the ball and often , predictably, just lets fly with a big kick to a contest easily picked off.  How many times is this done for the same result?

The skipper role decision will tell me a lot about the club this off season.

 

I respect Jones , but I don't think he should have ever been Captain, but unfortunately due to mistakes made in the past , there was on one else.

Viney has shown by leading by example in the past he could make a  great Captain but this year has been terrible. Looks injured and a yard off the pace. Watch the elimination final you'll see what I mean.

I would hand the job to Gawn. 

I was disappointed with Jones after the Round 1 loss. Someone asked him if they would do some soul searching given the nature of the loss. His response was "it's one game, $#! + happens." I thought that was a very poor attitude and this season has shown that the fish rots from the head. 

Neither Jones nor Viney should Captain next year. Both lack the qualities that make Captains special.

If they continue on next year it will be another "Poor" Decision by the Footy Department.

Gawn, May, Harmes might not be a bad combo in 2020

Regardless of the why & and what ifs the Captaincy must go to Big Maxy if we are to have any chance of a genuine resurrection from here.  It may also go some way to preventing an exodus of members in 2020.

  On 11/08/2019 at 23:14, jnrmac said:

At this point, on field leadership is second on the list to the coaching panel of things that need rectifying

 

Yes , secondary, but can we get to it straight afterwards  !

Compare these clips.
The difference is stark.

 

 

i respect Jones but don't believe he is the right choice as captain at this stage of his career. likewise Viney is an average footballer with a big heart but doesn't appear to be all that articulate. Max is a no- brainer to become captain and if the club is serious about change it should happen.

Viney tries hard but overwhelmed by injuries and lack of skills. Jones 3 tackles in his past 5 games says it all. 

Need to stop blaming individuals, the bottom line is our team just doesn't have the foot skills required to win games.  We can win the football just can't keep it.  This goes to the type of player we drafted and traded for over the past 5 years.  Funny, Paul Roos and the Eagles evolved the game back to an ultra defence contested ball game 10 years back, the Eagles have added the element of highly skilled kicking and possession footy, Clarkson saw this coming mid last year changed his game style, we didn't and this year is the end result.

It is a skill issue, not leadership

  On 11/08/2019 at 23:58, Fork 'em said:

Compare these clips.
The difference is stark.

 

 

Hmm.... Jones is mostly vocal when he want teammates to pass the ball to him. And what’s happened to all the tackles he used to apply? Hodge reads the game like a chess master. No wonder the Lions now look so well drilled and organised. 

Edited August 12, 20195 yr by america de cali

  On 12/08/2019 at 00:15, america de cali said:

Hmm, Jones is most vocal when he want teammates to pass the ball to him. Hodge reads the game like a chess master. No wonder the Lions look so well drilled and organised. 

 

  On 11/08/2019 at 23:58, Fork 'em said:

Compare these clips.
The difference is stark.

 

I hear in many circles that Hodge is a Coach in waiting. Very cluey , understands the game, understands roles, understands HIS role and a good conveyor of strategy.

Can't say I've ever heard any of that , and Jones,  in the same sentence.

  On 12/08/2019 at 00:07, drdrake said:

 

It is a skill issue, not leadership

Without doubt we have enormous skills issues

We have NO leadership. Our games are played out rudderless.

What leadership does is harness and direct what assets you DO have.

Look at Lions pre Hodge..and Now.  That's no accident.

  On 11/08/2019 at 23:58, Fork 'em said:

Compare these clips.
The difference is stark.

 

 

Oh boy...  chalk and cheese

That video of Hodge - I wonder if Lewis does that for us?

  On 11/08/2019 at 22:16, billyblanks29 said:

The captain has more impact/say out on the ground than a coach. A book called The Captains Class studies 16 of the most successful sporting teams in history around the world. It revealed they all had one thing in common: an excellent captain. This didn't mean the best player as most of the time they weren't but they had the right characteristics of a good captain. When Jordan won 3 championships with the Bulls the captain was Bill Cartwright and when he left the team didn't win anymore championships even with Jordan.

Book summary:

• An analysis of the greatest pro sports teams in history found captains are critical to a team’s success.

• The best captains play for their teams, not their egos.

• This effect may be just as applicable in the military or the office.

Walker’s top 16 teams had captains who played for their teams rather than their egos, embodied by players like Tim Duncan of the San Antonio Spurs. Duncan sacrificed larger salaries, flashy stats, and media fanfare for the good of his team, Walker argued.

Walker determined that elite captains like Duncan have seven traits.

• They are extremely resilient.
• They play to the limits of the rules.
• They do thankless jobs.
• They communicate clearly with all members of their team.
• They motivate through nonverbal displays.
• They have strong convictions and aren’t afraid to be different.
• They have total control of their emotions.

Now lets look at Jones who Paul Roos said back in 2014 was 'haunted by the past' & expected to lose from experience: https://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-08-03/dees-haunted-by-the-past?fbclid=IwAR1NGm78nDTyAyjX5XnAs3fG26ndirQiO9YQ-9GUWhl1lx8idt-K5sz0QP4

So is a captaincy change what we really need?

Well, it couldn’t hurt could it?

(Good thread by the way).

Max Gawn should be the captain of the MFC.