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Matsuo Basho

The Lever Trade

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2 hours ago, GaryBusey said:

Two first round picks was ridiculous. You pay that for a top 25 player in the comp. Maybe. It’s debatable that Lever is even in the top 75. And he’s injury prone. This trade has cost us the opportunity to bring in a young gun like a Duursma or an Ollie Florent. Who’s making these decisions? Mahoney and Goodwin? It’s disgraceful.

Another troll decides to sign up and stick the boots in. Go and Get French connectioned Constable.

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13 minutes ago, GaryBusey said:

Good call Olisik. Paying an unnecessary extra first rounder for Lever means we have a guy like ANB or JKH in the side instead of a Liam Ryan or Conor Rozee type. No wonder we’re crap.

Conor Rozee went at pick 5- would love to hear how you’d suggest we nab him with the pick 19 we traded away.

The open market placed Liam Ryan’s value  at the 26th best player in the draft.  We traded away Pick 10.

You and Olisik want to play Captain Hindsight and cherry-pick the best players in the draft to suit your preconceived idea that the trade was a bust.  Doesn’t work like that.  The draft is the best indicator of where those players were ranked at the time.  It is an open, transparent market.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Conor Rozee went at pick 5- would love to hear how you’d suggest we nab him with the pick 19 we traded away.

The open market placed Liam Ryan’s value  at the 26th best player in the draft.  We traded away Pick 10.

You and Olisik want to play Captain Hindsight and cherry-pick the best players in the draft to suit your preconceived idea that the trade was a bust.  Doesn’t work like that.  The draft is the best indicator of where those players were ranked at the time.  It is an open, transparent market.

 

 

If others can cherry pick their way I’ll cherry pick my way, cheers. Either way we overpaid and got shafted.

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35 minutes ago, olisik said:

That’s if we drafted those players. Was plenty of other available players such as Tim Kelly, Liam Ryan, Petrucelli ect available in the draft when these selections were made. 

Yes however that ignores the notion that we'd ruin any of those players by their second season.

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5 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Conor Rozee went at pick 5- would love to hear how you’d suggest we nab him with the pick 19 we traded away.

The open market placed Liam Ryan’s value  at the 26th best player in the draft.  We traded away Pick 10.

You and Olisik want to play Captain Hindsight and cherry-pick the best players in the draft to suit your preconceived idea that the trade was a bust.  Doesn’t work like that.  The draft is the best indicator of where those players were ranked at the time.  It is an open, transparent market.

 

 

Should we start also looking at all the Free Agents who have been taken for less then 800K in the past 2 years as well? We could have snared them also with the 800K we are paying Lever. It isn’t only draft picks this costed us.

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1 minute ago, olisik said:

Should we start also looking at all the Free Agents who have been taken for less then 800K in the past 2 years as well? We could have snared them also with the 800K we are paying Lever. It isn’t only draft picks this costed us.

Sure!

Who did you want for 800k that’s better than Lever?

 

 

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15 minutes ago, olisik said:

That’s if we drafted those players. Was plenty of other available players such as Tim Kelly, Liam Ryan, Petrucelli ect available in the draft when these selections were made. 

And even available after the selections we still had!

For the record, the latter half of the 2017 first round was pretty weak, and the real premium picks outside the top half dozen were in the block bookended by 24 (Tim Kelly) and 31 (Bailey Fritsch). In fact, aside from Kelly, Fritsch was probably the 'best available' of all options even from the pick we traded out.

As for 2018 draft... as I've pointed out elsewhere, it is looking like a true misere draft except for a handful of serious quality at the very pointy end.

From the pick we traded out (which eventually became 19, Liam Stocker) until the end of the draft, only three players have had any significant presence so far, Matthew Parker (taken at 47), Noah Answerth (pick 55) and.. oh hey, our very own Marty Hore.

So, in Marty Hore, we pretty clearly got the best player of all those available at pick 19.

So with the exception of Tim Kelly, that has kind of happened twice. Funny how things work out.

Debate all you want whether pick 10 and 19 are too much to pay for probably the best young key defender available in the game at the time, but one thing is clear, the trade and its consequences are in no way responsible for how things have gone since then.

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5 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Sure!

Who did you want for 800k that’s better than Lever?

 

 

 

We could’ve drafted Stocker (or traded it for Pick 3 this year), with our 2018 pick, Tim Kelly with 2017 pick and made a play for Lynch with the 800K cap space.

Edited by olisik
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3 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

And even available after the selections we still had!

For the record, the latter half of the 2017 first round was pretty weak, and the real premium picks outside the top half dozen were in the block bookended by 24 (Tim Kelly) and 31 (Bailey Fritsch). In fact, aside from Kelly, Fritsch was probably the 'best available' of all options even from the pick we traded out.

As for 2018 draft... as I've pointed out elsewhere, it is looking like a true misere draft except for a handful of serious quality at the very pointy end.

From the pick we traded out (which eventually became 19, Liam Stocker) until the end of the draft, only three players have had any significant presence so far, Matthew Parker (taken at 47), Noah Answerth (pick 55) and.. oh hey, our very own Marty Hore.

So, in Marty Hore, we pretty clearly got the best player of all those available at pick 19.

So with the exception of Tim Kelly, that has kind of happened twice. Funny how things work out.

Debate all you want whether pick 10 and 19 are too much to pay for probably the best young key defender available in the game at the time, but one thing is clear, the trade and its consequences are in no way responsible for how things have gone since then.

Jackson Trengove is having a solid year and was a FA

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2 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Sure!

Who did you want for 800k that’s better than Lever?

 

 

For two first round picks you should get a player  the quality of Treloar, Omeara, Shiel, Kelly. Top shelf mids.

Not an intercept marking defender. Absolutely ridiculous overs.

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1 minute ago, olisik said:

 

We could’ve drafted Stocker (or traded it for Pick 3 this year), Tim Kelly and made a play for Lynch.

You’re hilarious mate.

Again, who could we have paid $800k as a free agent at that time who is better than Lever?

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1 minute ago, Mach5 said:

You’re hilarious mate.

Again, who could we have paid $800k as a free agent at that time who is better than Lever?

I would take Kelly, 2019 Pick 3 and Lynch over Lever in a heartbeat. Cost was more then just the 800K mate.

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Haha this thread is Hilarious! Great entertainment from the usuals as always.

*grabs popcorn*

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8 minutes ago, GaryBusey said:

For two first round picks you should get a player  the quality of Treloar, Omeara, Shiel, Kelly. Top shelf mids.

Not an intercept marking defender. Absolutely ridiculous overs.

Welcome back Matsuo.

Not sure why I'm bothering tbh, but for clarity sake the trade was actually:

Adelaide got pick 10 (2017), pick 19 (2018), pick 67 (2018)

Melbourne got Jake Lever, Petty and Sparrow (in a roundabout way).

Doesn't seem that bad when you look at it properly hey.

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Happy to give him a free hit this year coming back from an ACL. He was starting to really impact games just before his knee injury last year, so we need a whole season of that next year.

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33 minutes ago, olisik said:

I think it may be time to open the official 2019 trade/draft room.

It will be up tomorrow. 

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48 minutes ago, olisik said:

I think it may be time to open the official 2019 trade/draft room.

Not until finals are absolutely ruled out. 

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2 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

He’s more than decent and was worth pick 10 - 20. But we shelled out much more than that

No we didn't. The total value of the trade was the equivalent of Pick 10.

Which should please you. Close thread.

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8 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Two first round picks was ridiculous. You pay that for a top 25 player in the comp. Maybe. It’s debatable that Lever is even in the top 75. And he’s injury prone. This trade has cost us the opportunity to bring in a young gun like a Duursma or an Ollie Florent. Who’s making these decisions? Mahoney and Goodwin? It’s disgraceful.

Lever is a gun, he’s still only 22, he did he his knee and has never had a real run at it, he’s worth everything we gave for him, and he’ll play 200 games for us, May the same, an absolute gun who will be a great player for us for 5 years

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MB must be loving that this thread got off the ground. Strange way of interacting  with the world if you ask me. 

Fingers crossed may and lever have terrific pre seasons and play all of 2020 together. 

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Given his previous ACL history it was a stupid trade at the time. History has proven it also to be a stupid trade as of late 2019. With a bit of luck we move Mahoney, Viney and Taylor on, and bring in some experts who make better decisions.

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16 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

He’s not long come back from an ACL, can we at least let him have a pre-season and string some more games together. I understand being outraged on the internet is the in-thing these days but let’s hold off until mid-way through next season. 

You only have to see who started this thread Ethan for your answer

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If Lever was anywhere near as good as his reputation would suggest, he would (arguably) be worth what we paid for him. But the reality is that he is currently a mediocre player in a mediocre team, and there is a fair argument that we overpaid.

Forget what Lever achieved in 2017. Adelaide was clearly the best team in the competition for 25 of the 26 weeks. They didn't concede many inside 50s and those that they did concede were subject to plenty of pressure. In Talia, Kelly and others, Adelaide had a very strong, reliable defense which allowed Lever play off his man and be third man up on a regular basis. Rating him on that basis is like testing a car on an autobahn and applying the performance specs to a dirt track.

The Melbourne side of 2019 leaks inside 50s like a sieve and most of them are under zero pressure from the midfield. Our defenders are unreliable and inconsistent with their effort, which means that they are hard pressed to worry about their own man, let alone cover other players when Lever decides to go wandering off his opponent.

Lever is primarily a liability in this side because he doesn't have the body strength to stand next an opponent. Hence he has to play from behind, so when the opposition deliver the ball well as Collingwood did to Mihocek on Saturday, he stands no chance. All the intercept marks in the world count for nothing if he is conceding multiple goals to his direct opponent. I'm not sure what he was doing in the 12 months he couldn't play football, because he clearly hasn't been spending time in the gym building upper body strength.

Plus his kicking is putrid.

 

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Never should've coughed up 2 first rounders for a guy who had such a high injury risk after already having a knee reco, and was out of contract and named his destination club. We got absolutely bent over.

The May trade looks to be a disaster too.

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