It’s thoroughly ridiculous to declare the Tyson trade a bust because we might trade him out 5 seasons after the fact. He was a ready to go inside mid, who instantly made us better at the time. He might be surplus to requirements now but he was the player we needed in 2013 as the rebuild began.

  On 06/10/2018 at 22:26, DemonLad5 said:

apparently may be involved in the Kolodjashnij deal to Gold Coast

And also the May deal?

  On 06/10/2018 at 22:26, DemonLad5 said:

apparently may be involved in the Kolodjashnij deal to Gold Coast

I believe this has already been touched on and Tyson wasn’t open with the move. 

  On 06/10/2018 at 22:26, DemonLad5 said:

apparently may be involved in the Kolodjashnij deal to Gold Coast

He has some solid interest in Melbourne so unless the GC are going to give him an exceptional deal he won't be headed there.

Players still have control of where they go under present AFL rules and as much as we may like to package a deal Dom still has the final say.

  On 06/10/2018 at 23:52, Ethan Tremblay said:

I believe this has already been touched on and Tyson wasn’t open with the move. 

He might reconsider based on offers coming from elsewhere.

I’m sure he’d take 4 years at GC at the pay scale he’s accustomed to, rather than 2 years aand a healthy pay cut to stay in Melbourne.

I suppose.

  On 06/10/2018 at 23:02, Nasher said:

It’s thoroughly ridiculous to declare the Tyson trade a bust because we might trade him out 5 seasons after the fact. He was a ready to go inside mid, who instantly made us better at the time. He might be surplus to requirements now but he was the player we needed in 2013 as the rebuild began.

Exactly ..... and imo he hasn't 'regressed' at all, but has been 'overtaken' as an inside mid by Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw  and Harmes, who are among the best in the business.  

Edited October 7, 20186 yr by Deeoldfart

  On 06/10/2018 at 20:38, Jaded said:

He is very good depth and we all talk about our inside mids like both Viney and Gus haven’t had injury concerns. 

Who is to say Viney can play 25 games a year? Next year? Maybe ever. 

With Viney injured, we saw the value of Tyson. If he wants to stay, I’ll be happy to have him on our list. If he wants to go, I hope we get decent compensation for him. 

He is not a bad player. 

Not the way to build the list Jaded, we have to continually try to better what we have.

move on, and upward.

  On 06/10/2018 at 23:27, Redleg said:

And also the May deal?

Yes, thats true... they '(gcs's) need maturity.

Tyson would probably have a longer career at GCSuns, than he would get at the Bummers.

Found the comment on Tyson in The Age interesting:

Melbourne
Picks: 34, 45, 53, 89
Trade Outlook: Another busy time for the Demons who hope to recruit May with picks gained from trading out Hogan. They will land Suns' wingman Kolodjashnij and lose Dean Kent to St Kilda. Aaron vandenBerg is likely to get to Sydney with the trade request based on compassionate grounds after his father died this year. Dom Tyson is exploring his options but clubs are unlikely to commit until other decisions are made while North Melbourne's Braydon Preuss is expected to join the Demons.

So it sounds like we may not hear much about where/if Tyson is going until we find out what's happening with the likes of Shiel & Setterfield. Sounds as though Dom will be someones 2nd choice.

Also sounds like Vandenberg's gone....

  On 07/10/2018 at 00:34, Deeoldfart said:

Exactly ..... and imo he hasn't 'regressed' at all, but has been 'overtaken' as an inside mid by Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw  and Harmes, who are among the best in the business.  

Precisely, dof. In 2014, he came second to Nate Jones in the B&F. The players that have gone passed him since in that role are Viney (2014: kid in his second year in the system), Brayshaw and Oliver (2014: high school), and Harmes (2014: self confessed immature kid on the rookie list, running around in the Casey reserves/development league). Tyson is ill suited to the roles we’ve asked of him recently which highlights his weaknesses and has affected people’s perception of him as a player.

We’ve got a lot of significant benefit out of him over the journey though.

  On 01/10/2018 at 05:57, Swooper1987 said:

I'd be reluctant to let him go.  No team ever gets through injury free. Which young midfielder that we haven't yet seen at senior level is going to be better than Tyson if Viney gets hurt again or if Brayshaw gets concussed, or Oliver's shoulders don't come up?  I think the GF proved that depth is crucial.  Both sides were a long way from their best 22 yet still played an extraordinary game of footy.  Tyson played some pretty reasonable footy towards the end of the H&A season and was nearly best on against the Giants for the first half before he broke his arm.  He can play.  People knock his disposal and it's true he isn't a fantastic kick, but he can find the footy and he is a big, experienced body.  As long as his arse points south he'll never be a winger but he is an important part of our depth.  Hold him to his contract.

His problem is that he is an inside midfielder, pure and simple. He's not a wingman.

with Clarry, Viney, Brayshaw, Harmes, Jones  in the team, Tyson hardly got into the middle. I like him a lot but can understand that he might  want a move to a team who need a mid.

 

  On 06/10/2018 at 23:02, Nasher said:

It’s thoroughly ridiculous to declare the Tyson trade a bust because we might trade him out 5 seasons after the fact. He was a ready to go inside mid, who instantly made us better at the time. He might be surplus to requirements now but he was the player we needed in 2013 as the rebuild began.

Not a total bust be we paid a lot for a short term solution. I'm still comfortable with the deal of moving back from pick 2 to Salem at pick 9 and getting a highly rated kid ready to play, but if we had our time again we'd probably target a different Giants mid who could provide both short and long term benefits. Or bought in a different senior player - similar to a Vince/Cross and kept more draft picks. No regrets because the most important part of the plan - no longer being rubbish - has well and truly being achieved but it's closer to a bust than a win. We had to have valued Tyson as a pick around 10-15 to make that deal and that's a lot for a guy who's on the outer after 5 years and really didn't play many good games in his preferred role after the first 3 years.

The alternate reality to the Tyson/Salem/Hunt trade is not Kelly - it is Billings.

Score one for the trade there...

The alternate reality is not Kelly roaming the flanks in front of the MCC - it is watching Billings at Casey and moaning about another draft disaster without Salem on our HBF.

  On 05/10/2018 at 02:44, deanox said:

At his age I really want to hold Tyson. 

I see him as aperfect replacement for Jones in the guts, and we know Jones doesn't have long left. 

Personally Id have thought by the end of next year that swap would be almost permanent because I think the end will come for Jones very quickly, just like it did with Bernie. Jones will be 31 in January, while Bernie played his last season as a 32 year old but struggled. Tyson is 25 until June next year. 

Respectfully disagree.  Tyson will never be a replacement for Jones.   Jones has already been pushed out of the midfield onto the wing where Tyson has played.  Tyson doesn’t have the speed or foot skills to play on the wing and there are 5 or 6 in front of him for the inside mid role 

The intensity of afl players around stoppages has increased significantly in recent years and he lacks in his area, is a poor kick, gets caught hold the ball looking for the best option, and has poor defensive attributes. True that he is the next best if we have an injury to a mid but he would be one of the better paid BACKUP mids in the comp. From a money ball perspective his backup mid role can be replaced and cap space utilised elsewhere

  On 07/10/2018 at 05:04, DeeSpencer said:

Not a total bust be we paid a lot for a short term solution. I'm still comfortable with the deal of moving back from pick 2 to Salem at pick 9 and getting a highly rated kid ready to play, but if we had our time again we'd probably target a different Giants mid who could provide both short and long term benefits. Or bought in a different senior player - similar to a Vince/Cross and kept more draft picks. No regrets because the most important part of the plan - no longer being rubbish - has well and truly being achieved but it's closer to a bust than a win. We had to have valued Tyson as a pick around 10-15 to make that deal and that's a lot for a guy who's on the outer after 5 years and really didn't play many good games in his preferred role after the first 3 years.

That last sentence almost describes what May could be, but some want to sell the farm for him. 

It puts win/loss trades into perspective.  It isn't always about a massive overs result, it's about balancing risk and achieving the aim of the trade.

All picks have the chance of massive upside but relatively low probability of achieving that upside. The earlier the pick the higher the chance of a good honest player as well. Regardless,  sometimes the known quantity/quality (even a mediocre quality) than will fill aspecific need is worth more than rolling the dice, particularly given the combination of development time required for players to reach potential.

The list management team is balancing all this stuff.  It's the reason they either pay for ready made rucks or take speculative rookie picks; it's just that this is easily understood by us!

 

  On 07/10/2018 at 12:28, deanox said:

That last sentence almost describes what May could be, but some want to sell the farm for him. 

It puts win/loss trades into perspective.  It isn't always about a massive overs result, it's about balancing risk and achieving the aim of the trade.

All picks have the chance of massive upside but relatively low probability of achieving that upside. The earlier the pick the higher the chance of a good honest player as well. Regardless,  sometimes the known quantity/quality (even a mediocre quality) than will fill aspecific need is worth more than rolling the dice, particularly given the combination of development time required for players to reach potential.

The list management team is balancing all this stuff.  It's the reason they either pay for ready made rucks or take speculative rookie picks; it's just that this is easily understood by us!

 

That's fair. Hopefully May achieves what he's bought here to do in the same way Tyson did. And I guess with Dom it seems unlikely he'll contribute a lot to us after this year, but maybe we can turn him in to a player that does. That's one of true skills in list management, knowing when to flip a player and get a replacement. No one did it better than the Hawks after '08, trading premiership players for assets that helped in their next run.

Suns still seem keen to get him  http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-10-08/trade-wrap-hogan-inching-towards-dockers-deal

I hope Dom gets a trade he is happy with.  He really got his act together after playing for Casey and it was almost miraculous and courageous how he played barely a week after surgery to his fractured arm.

At least if he goes to another club, when they play Melbourne, he’ll kick it to a Melbourne player.

Turnover king!

Edited October 8, 20186 yr by President Dee Trump

  On 07/10/2018 at 12:38, DeeSpencer said:

That's fair. Hopefully May achieves what he's bought here to do in the same way Tyson did. And I guess with Dom it seems unlikely he'll contribute a lot to us after this year, but maybe we can turn him in to a player that does. That's one of true skills in list management, knowing when to flip a player and get a replacement. No one did it better than the Hawks after '08, trading premiership players for assets that helped in their next run.

Don Tyson is hardly in the same league as Hawthorn premiership players.

Edited October 8, 20186 yr by President Dee Trump

Wouldn't be too upset to see him go. Had a couple of good games after being dropped, but a very unspectacular player in our midfield now. Should look elsewhere for opportunity

Agreed once to go to a club in a bad state 5 years ago, totally understand him not wanting to do that again.

He was a pleasure to watch until we found other pleasures that satisfied more.

I don’t know his impact on the cap but I would prefer he stay for depth but we are obviously trying to move him which tells me he is on more than the 26th bloke should be on...

Matthew Lloyd just said on the Trade Table that it's a shoe-in that he won't be at the Dees next year, with Gold Coast leading the race for him ahead of Hawks, Bombers, Blues

Tyson and 2019 first rounder for May and KK?

  On 08/10/2018 at 11:37, olisik said:

Tyson and 2019 first rounder for May and KK?

i bloody hope not.. we can do better than that. we ain't using that 2019 first unless its for whitfield/kelly..