Depression is one thing. Taking responsibility for one’s actions is another. 

Hogan’s been in the system for a long time now. He’s a marquee player at a new club.

He knows the rules.

And he’s not the first person to encounter some personal hardship whilst also trying to hold down a job.

I know several people who have lost parents, have gone through bruising divorces, who are struggling financially and emotionally to bring up young kids solo, and have inflexible and intolerant employers as to their personal situations.

I expect they’d love to have the luxury of the time, emotional support and financial security than the AFL system would afford them, even if only for a limited period of time - on terms that you just can’t drink heaps of beer on a Monday night, and that you otherwise have to display a good attitude to, and respect for, your club and your teammates.

Unlike most employers, however, AFL clubs seem extraordinarily tolerant and forgiving.

Despite his obvious talent, I never found Hogan to be a particularly endearing character. I’m just relieved we managed to secure Steven May in exchange for him, as I expect is the club.

 

Edited March 19, 20196 yr by Ron Burgundy

37 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

An interesting article suggesting Freo haven't put the support system in place for Jesse event tho they new of his problems before recruiting him and there have been red flags over the summer.  https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/respected-afl-figures-criticise-fremantle-s-handling-of-jesse-hogan-20190318-p515am.html

"Respected AFL figures" included:

• Karl Langdon
• Kim Hagdorn
• Garry Lyon
• Gerard Healy
• Jonathan Brown
• Mark Robinson

I can't wait for the day when some actual journalists start covering AFL. How ironic is it reading Slobbo's incoherent rants about players with alcohol problems?

All this does raise the possibility that he may ask for a trade back to Melbourne at some stage, to get away from .... the issues in WA. Would we have him back? Second round pick? 3rd?

10 hours ago, Damo said:

Amazingly big call by Jon Ralph who isnt normally as outlandish as most. He also said Hoges has been seen out more than Elvis over summer.

Really worried about Jesse Hogan now. Hope it is being exaggerated.

Without seeing what Ralph actually wrote (or hearing what he said), I'm not sure what to make of this statement. Was he saying that there were multiple claims of Hogan being seen all of which proved to be false (which, I think, would be a literal interpretation) or was he trying to say that Hogan had been seen as often as there were claims that Elvis had been seen. It's been a long time since Elvis has left the building and as far as I know, not once has an alleged sighting of Elvis been proven.   

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Depression is one thing. Taking responsibility for one’s actions is another. 

Hogan’s been in the system for a long time now. He’s a marquee player at a new club.

He knows the rules.

And he’s not the first person to encounter some personal hardship whilst also trying to hold down a job.

I know several people who have lost parents, have gone through bruising divorces, who are struggling financially and emotionally to bring up young kids solo, and have inflexible and intolerant employers as to their personal situations.

I expect they’d love to have the luxury of the time, emotional support and financial security than the AFL system would afford them, even if only for a limited period of time - on terms that you just can’t drink heaps of beer on a Monday night, and that you otherwise have to display a good attitude to, and respect for, your club and your teammates.

Unlike most employers, however, AFL clubs seem extraordinarily tolerant and forgiving.

Despite his obvious talent, I never found Hogan to be a particularly endearing character. I’m just relieved we managed to secure Steven May in exchange for him, as I expect is the club.

 

Ron ....can I like this twice.

Excellent summary

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Despite his obvious talent, I never found Hogan to be a particularly endearing character. I’m just relieved we managed to secure Steven May in exchange for him, as I expect is the club.

I agree with most of you what you have said. 

Like you, I know many people who have been through a lot worse than Jesse. 

What is tough for one person is not tough for another.  Some are more resilient than others. 

Different personalities, different mental health conditions, and different coping abilities all play a role.  

One difference is that Hogan's problems are played out in the media and on social media. Step outside your front door and there is a jerk with a phone or camera. Judgments are then made by footy media, supporters and trolls. For someone that is naturally shy this can be an enormous burden. 

He wants to be a footballer not someone who is a media personality. Okay that goes with the territory but some cope with that attention better than others.  Is that a flaw or just the way a person is ?  

Most people want to go about their life or business unobtrusively without being in the spotlight and without their life being open to scrutiny and comment from all and sundry. 

So I have sympathy for Hogan as I do for all those with mental health issues. 

Sympathy or understanding can be present irrespective of the circumstances.  There are social misfits that don't deserve sympathy or compassion such as murderers, rapists and those who do harm to others.

Hogan is not one of those. The sad thing is that he is only harming himself.  

We all have our demons and some can cope with them better than others.  

 

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Without seeing what Ralph actually wrote (or hearing what he said), I'm not sure what to make of this statement. Was he saying that there were multiple claims of Hogan being seen all of which proved to be false (which, I think, would be a literal interpretation) or was he trying to say that Hogan had been seen as often as there were claims that Elvis had been seen. It's been a long time since Elvis has left the building and as far as I know, not once has an alleged sighting of Elvis been proven.   

The manner Ralph was speaking I understood he was saying that he has been seen out everywhere and often. I get that it is possible that it could have been false sightings. Thats not how it sounded.

@hemingway re ...just wanting to play footy...maybe.

Not sure he's really 109% commited to AFL though. He's good at sabotaging his efforts.

5 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

@hemingway re ...just wanting to play footy...maybe.

Not sure he's really 109% commited to AFL though. He's good at sabotaging his efforts.

Man you bang on about your agenda 109% though don’t you. The game is littered with people that haven’t given what others would consider enough, it’s their perogitive.  Clubs know that not everyone will commit, even though there is support surrounding them.  Hogan’s life is his, it’s not yours and it’s his privilege to do it how he wants. Every player is a risk, be it on talent, potential or desire. That’s ok isn’t it?  Or in your view - is everyone who is employed within the ‘utopian space’ of afl, weak if they don’t give there darndest 109% of the time...

I

The 109 was a typo.  .but irrelevant.

If you're going to play elite team sports ,then I'm sure your employer and team mates would like to know your 'in the game" 

Otherwise your wasting yours and everyone else time and effort.

I was and still am a Huge Hogan fan, however, I am starting to waiver. Jesse needs to surround himself with true mates not the parasites that video him on their phones and post it on "social Media". His actions were poor but theirs is utterly disgraceful. Come on Jesse you OWE the Dockers better than that.

37 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

The 109 was a typo.  .but irrelevant.

If you're going to play elite team sports ,then I'm sure your employer and team mates would like to know your 'in the game" 

Otherwise your wasting yours and everyone else time and effort.

Mmm, well let’s disagree. I don’t think your sentiments are  reflective of the world we live in, or even grounded in reality. I suppose you’ve given 100% day in day out of course...

1 minute ago, Engorged Onion said:

Mmm, well let’s disagree. I don’t think your sentiments are  reflective of the world we live in, or even grounded in reality. I suppose you’ve given 100% day in day out of course...

I think  we can disagree.

No one gives a 100 each and every time,but the threshold for elite would be very, VERY high. If you can't...step aside.

My concern for Hogan, his team mates and club is , to be frank, I just don't think his heart is in it. Not for AFL requirements.

He's been quoted as enjoying the opportunity to return home and play footy with some mates etc. All well and good, and of course not the totality of his approach, but often actions speak volumes. 

This is my view and quite happy to own it.. and be different if need. 

In the end he's not a Melbourne player. Matters little to me .

Go Dees

Ross tells the media to 'back off' re Jesse

He is trying to focus on the illness and quite rightly won't elaborate on it or the other 'behavioural' issues.  And he has taken the so sensible 'Rinse and Repeat' approach to media questions.  As noted in my post this morning they should have done that in the beginning.

Now that Jesse's reputation has been trashed in the national mainstream media they want to put the genie back in the bottle.  Too little, too late. 

The article includes a video by Goodwin where he is incredibly good in support of Jessie.  He rightly says it is a private matter and he, the club and players have been in contact with him. 

Very poorly handled by Freo.  They need some new PR people.

Edited March 20, 20196 yr by Lucifer's Hero

11 hours ago, beelzebub said:

You raise an interesting spectre...that Ralph would want to have proof. That it's damaging ( of course ) to do so frivolously without such.

It kinda suggests to me he might.

There is a lot of talk doing footy circles. There was quite a bit last year that mentioned players with involvement past and then current with Melbourne.

Often what is seen by the public is very sanitized.The AFL 3 strike system is a joke...beyond a joke really. We've seen the lengths they'll go to to rewrite history and negate any naysayers.

That any of these Vids get out is testament to both the underlying problems and the notion you can't hope to plug all holes nowadays.

Ralph won't have gone with his story....if he couldn't back it. 

The world of elite sports ...not so sparkly in some areas. They're but humans...and we humans have lots of problems and vices.

You are probably right, and Ralph would be able to back up his story, but us poor souls who follow our club and invest our money, heart and souls into the fortunes of these young men always hope for the best. Call me naive, but I try to be optimistic and like to think the best of people. Taking drugs has probably become the norm in today's society, and athletes are not immune from temptation, but I still don't like it. I have seen the damage it does. To call these substances "party" drugs is a misnomer in my opinion. There is nothing fun or sparkly about becoming a drug addict.

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Ross tells the media to 'back off' re Jesse

He is trying to focus on the illness and quite rightly won't elaborate on it or the other 'behavioural' issues.  And he has taken the so sensible 'Rinse and Repeat' approach to media questions.  As noted in my post this morning they should have done that in the beginning.

Now that Jesse's reputation has been trashed in the national mainstream media they want to put the genie back in the bottle.  Too little, too late. 

The article includes a video by Goodwin where he is incredibly good in support of Jessie.  He rightly says it is a private matter and he, the club and players have been in contact with him. 

Very poorly handled by Freo.  They need some new PR people.

Agreed Lucifer.

The environment of Perth may well be a disadvantage for Jesse.

We know of Perth's history with troubled footballers.

And often people are better off away from their home environment.

Staying home or going home is not always the best option. 

Also Freo doesn't strike me as an ideal home. The Eagles may have been a better fit,  but, there again, he may have been better staying at Melbourne away from the pressures of home. 

 

The footage of Jesse that is doing the rounds is apparently 3 years old (apologies is this has already been posted). On Perth radio this morning the Dockers denied Hogan was involved in an incident in Mandurah over the weekend, only that he missed training due to being on the turps Saturday night. The Dockers have handled some recent off-field issues very poorly (and continue to handle Bennell poorly), let’s hope they deal with Hogan much better and get him the help he needs. 

Edited March 20, 20196 yr by Ethan Tremblay

11 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Freo haven't handled this well

Summed up.

Couldn't organise the proverbial....???

 

Bennell getting punchy with bikies 

Freo having a ripper offseason

11 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Depression is one thing. Taking responsibility for one’s actions is another. 

Hogan’s been in the system for a long time now. He’s a marquee player at a new club.

He knows the rules.

And he’s not the first person to encounter some personal hardship whilst also trying to hold down a job.

I know several people who have lost parents, have gone through bruising divorces, who are struggling financially and emotionally to bring up young kids solo, and have inflexible and intolerant employers as to their personal situations.

I expect they’d love to have the luxury of the time, emotional support and financial security than the AFL system would afford them, even if only for a limited period of time - on terms that you just can’t drink heaps of beer on a Monday night, and that you otherwise have to display a good attitude to, and respect for, your club and your teammates.

Unlike most employers, however, AFL clubs seem extraordinarily tolerant and forgiving.

Despite his obvious talent, I never found Hogan to be a particularly endearing character. I’m just relieved we managed to secure Steven May in exchange for him, as I expect is the club.

 

Everyone is different, they grieve differently, stop thinking everyone handles things in the same way.

 

9 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

Bennell getting punchy with bikies 

Freo having a ripper offseason

Can't write this stuff eh 

7 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Everyone is different, they grieve differently, stop thinking everyone handles things in the same way.

 

I don't think he is. 

I agree with Ron he has access to support and accommodating employment beyond the norm.

55 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

The footage of Jesse that is doing the rounds is apparently 3 years old (apologies is this has already been posted). On Perth radio this morning the Dockers denied Hogan was involved in an incident in Mandurah over the weekend, only that he missed training due to being on the turps Saturday night. The Dockers have handled some recent off-field issues very poorly (and continue to handle Bennell poorly), let’s hope they deal with Hogan much better and get him the help he needs. 

We really live in dangerous times because it is possible to not only post any kind of abuse on social media, it's also possible to post videos like the one about Jesse Hogan and insinuate it happened yesterday. It really is the age of fake news.

On the other hand, if the video is 3 years old, it thoroughly vindicates Melbourne's decision to say ta ta. In the end, people are responsible for their behaviour and I don't mean that in a moralistic way, I mean it in the sense that if someone is a repeat offender - no matter what their circumstances - at some stage you have to decide for your own sanity that you can't carry them.

I love the guy, I loved watching him play, I wish he hadn't gone through his traumas and I wish him all the best.

The other question it raises is the simple fact that he was dragged from Perth to Melbourne when he was 17, away from family, into an environment at the brink of either recovering or sinking. The waters he encountered must have been turgid. At 17, on your own , to be asked to deal with the estrangement and uprooting into a culture where the stench of decay and failure still hovered must have been daunting.  I'm glad it wasn't me. 

 

I really couldn't care whether a commentator like Ralph has some inside information on Hogan, and can back up facts to prove his assertion. But no assertion on this planet can identify this young footballer as being a "ratbag". Further, i think this could be taken up if so desired. Either by satisfaction (kin) or law.

On 3/19/2019 at 6:05 PM, Lucifer's Hero said:

 "...the Demons should not be too self-congratulatory, for one could argue if their environment didn't cause Hogan's issues, it didn't shrink them much either..."

That is a really cheap shot by Jack Niall.

 

The environment was fine for 43 players.

Jake Niall is a goose.