Post Match Discussion - Round 5

[Pates 9,660]

First quarter we were the better team but didn’t have the poise or class to make the most of it. Then in typical Melbourne style gave up cheap goals to give them the lead. 

Second quarter we were back to last week where we had no structure and no one pushing the team in the right direction. We’re were lucky to be only down by 20 points with them missing some good chances. 

Third quarter was the Melbourne we can be; exciting and high pressure. Unfortunately our skill let us down again and the umpires were an effing disgrace. We should’ve been much closer. 

Fourth quarter when we kicked the first goal I thought we could at least make it a close game but when they got the quick reply and we didn’t take some chances we gave up. Mixed in with more woeful fumbles and VFL level skills they ran riot. 

I got to see two games this year, tonight and last week. I go back to the UK thinking we’re going backwards. Viney is a lot more important to us than we realise, he’s our barometer and our inspiration. Not meaning disrespect towards Jonesy as I love the bloke but he’s been carrying us for so long. TMac is also more important to our structure now that Hogan’s playing further up the ground. 

[DeeZee 7,394]

How can we always dominate the hit outs yet always get killed in the clearances?

Answer- Petracca not taking the next step and we don’t have Viney.We really only have Clarry

Lever was good today, but our ball use was atrocious at times,they made us pay.

[monoccular 17,428]

35 minutes ago, america de cali said:

If you can’t handle a 2 day camp how can you tough out 4 quarters of football?

I do really think that is a huge part of the problem.

Tail wagging the dog   

Too many don’t want to put in second, third and fourth efforts ...... even first efforts would be welcome some times 

And, in lieu of the boot camp, they quite bviously did not devote the time to skillls training - how many miskics and missed handballs and running over the ball tonight?    If they can’t be hard at least they could be skilled. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by monoccular

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

Well, it was an improvement on last week.  Honestly, we took it right to them for three quarters basically through raw effort.  I take that as a positive.  The shocking gameplan was still there,especially in the second quarter.  I also wonder if the chronic fumbles were due to the perceived pressure they felt they were under due to Richmond's reputation. 

Overall, I'm far happier with this than I was with last week's effort. 

It's also good to see a few players standing up who were looking cooked.  Lever had his best game for the club (all five of them), Jetta seems to have thrown off whatever was bothering him and someone gave Gus a good kicking at half time because he came out firing in the second half.  Also very nice to see Oliver nailing Dusty in a tackle, Jones playing like a leader and Gawn dominating.  Melksham kicking four was quite nice too.  Also, I don't get the bagging of the Weed tonight.  He shanked that shot on goal, but he also made his presence felt, laid tackles, took some marks and showed some really good hands. 

On the negative, THE UMPIRES! Holy Hell they were biased tonight.  That spear tackle into Jones' back?  How was that not called?  Is it only a push in the back if it's in a marking contest now?  The same umpire that paid multiple HTB against us in range of goals refused to pay any against them, even when Dusty took on three tacklers and then threw the ball to a teammate when he was caught.  Also agree with the comment previously that they throw the ball constantly.  And trip!  I saw at three trips not paid, at least one of which should be a suspension from previous cases. 

Wagner was shyte tonight.  Kent has done a Hammy again.  Stretch and ANB came to the club together and probably need to leave it together as well. 

Still, at least they looked like they gave a damn tonight.  Maybe if Goody can bring himself to admit his gameplan is shot and get someone who knows how to set forward structures properly we could see an improvement.  Oh, and we need to get a specialist kicking coach. 

[olisik 4,060]

Jesus this post match is cringeworthy. He thinks we played well and got called out by the commentators saying we lost 10 out of 11 clearances in a quarter...

[pinkshark 950]

We are [censored].  

Because Goodwin is [censored].  

There will be no righting this ship.  He has to go.  [censored] him back off to Adelaide as quick as we can. 

I am so afraid, and am certain it will happen, that stubbornly the club will continue to back him in to save their face.  Meanwhile we will struggle.  Our A grade talent will become disillusioned and leave the club.  This will all happen.

[censored] him off now.  In fact [censored] all the coaches off.  I'm not blaming the players anymore.  It has to be the coaching and instruction.  

Edited April 24, 2018 by pinkshark

[Flemo56 396]

I’m not angry, yes I’m spewing and disappointed.
Wow, we just don’t have the talent. Sure players should be dropped, but who do we have too replace them with, players in the magoo’s who really aren’t performing at vfl level? I’m finding it hard too see any organisation compared to the opposition. I really hope that Goody is NOT in over his head and can turn this around. 
Another interesting week to come on Dland I suspect, I might just go and play golf and not look in, nah, I’ll look in for amusement purpose’s. GO DEE’s, when your ready of course.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

5 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

i cant recall Weid taking a mark so not sure about some people calling it an encouraging game

Four marks and five tackles from a developing key forward is pretty decent.  That is what we want to see from him.  It would have been nice if he slotted that shot on goal, but it was a decent showing from him. 

[Brownie 5,980]

17 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

It usually takes at least 24 hours for a post like this to emerge.  You’re mostly right, but it’s hard to see/admit it right now.

I'll add a couple of positives.

Hogan's field kicking went to another level tonight.

Brayshaw looked like he was gone at half time but responded well in the second.

Melksham is returning to form.

......

but we are still rubbish.

 

 

[leucopogon 1,519]

3 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

We are [censored].  

Because Goodwin is [censored].

There will be no righting this ship.  He has to go.  [censored] him back off to Adelaide as quick as we can. 

I am so afraid, and am certain it will happen, but stubbornly the club will continue to back him in to save their face.  Meanwhile we will struggle.  Our A grade talent will become disillusioned and leave the club.  This will all happen.

I agree wholeheartedly with you.

[leucopogon 1,519]

For a start, Fritsch is a lock for the rest of the season, the only one who can regularly hit targets by foot. Drop Harmes and Stretch and Tyson. So many passengers this week, Hannan will be in for sure, who else? JKH? Spargo? Maynard? Baker? It's good old deck chairs on the Titanic yet again.

Edited April 24, 2018 by leucopogon

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,177]

14 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Put aside the last 15 minutes.  We ran out of juice, the Tigers are reigning premiers and they got some cheap goals.  It wasn't similar at all to last weekend.

But, there were some key moments tonight that contributed to the loss, and they were moments we are having too often to be a consistent side.

The first one is our forward line and not taking our chances.  In the third term especially we dominated for a large period and, while we did kick a few, it should have been more.  We fluffed some chances, Hogan hits the post... we just couldn't put our domination on the scoreboard.  They go down, get a cheap goal and it really hurts.  The goal at the end of the third term was the one that hurt us the most - Lloyd getting a cheap goal out the back took their lead above 3 goals and we had nothing to show for our efforts.

The second is the little things - too many people up in the contest, two players going for the same ground ball, fumbling in key areas, missing simple targets and so on.  We do them too often.  To be a top class side you need to pick the damn thing up, then spread and support.  We CAN do it, we just don't do it often enough.  It's our 'bottom six' that do it the most - ANB, Harmes, Wagner etc.  They just don't do things first time.

I don't think the scoreline reflects the effort we put in and the pressure we were able to apply.  It's a shame, but switch off against a good side and that's what happens.

On the positive side, I thought Gawn was immense, Hogan had another great night, Weideman showed some promising signs before fading (he did well in the ruck, too), Melksham kicked 4 and did a great defensive job on Rance, while guys like Salem, Oliver and Trac tried hard but didn't get enough support.  I also thought O Mac and Lever played their best game together.

I think Goodwin tried a few different things but, in the end, it wasn't enough and we fell back into the bad habits that are costing us games of footy.  Until we eradicate those then we can't move forward.

I think we can beat the Bombers at Etihad and I think we'll enjoy playing in conditions that aren't condusive to fumbling.  We've played the Lions, Hawks and now Tigers in slippery conditions and struggled with it in two of them.  I'll be interested to see how we go without it next week.

Keep your chin up if you can, everyone.  I think we can still improve from here and become the side we all want it to be.  There is just lots of work ahead for the club to do.

A great balanced post. Aside from skill execution we were well in the game until the last with the team touted to be the best around. The last was a major disappointment but the wrist slashing is over the top. We are not as good as pundits predicted so far this year. Nor were Richmond in 2017 but they made some tough decisions at selection and in style and got momentum in the back half with a run of no injuries. 

Our current state with our lack of mature leadership and the gap with Viney and T-Mac this is not surprising. We need to fix our forward structure (which was much better second half) including maintaining Hogan closer to goal with short grabs up the ground not vice versa. We need to trust that one person can get the ball in the stoppage and retain people on the outside for the first ball out. We need to stop having three up in a contest forward and back. We need to realise that spread is needed for 4 quarters. We need to remove most of those players who cant execute basic skills like Tyson, Harmes, Stretch, Hunt and ANB. We need to maximise our major advantage in Gawn and he needs to realise that every tap is important. We need to have a plan to get the ball out of 50 from a kick in that is not a bail out near the boundary to Hogan/Gawn.

Once again nothing is as good or as bad as it seems. Left disappointed but can see it may start to come together if we make some adjustments and that is the most frustrating bit.

 

[buck_nekkid 5,858]

10 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Harmes has to be dropped. Can’t believe we let him have no.4.

Stretch nervous and fumbly

Vince has to be dropped, surely .

Nothing game from Tyson 

i cant recall Weid taking a mark so not sure about some people calling it an encouraging game

Goodwin had no answers when we lost the clearances in the second term. Just had to submit to Richmond’s structures.

Only positives: Gawn again, Lever looked comfortable, Melksham returned to form, same with hibbo. Jones and Oliver very good in the middle. O Mac our best defender almost at the moment.

 

 

What game were you watching?  Weids took some good marks, laid a great tackle, brought the ball to ground and executed some nice field kicking.  Pathetic comment.

[monoccular 17,428]

4 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

We are [censored].  

Because Goodwin is [censored].

There will be no righting this ship.  He has to go.  [censored] him back off to Adelaide as quick as we can. 

I am so afraid, and am certain it will happen, but stubbornly the club will continue to back him in to save their face.  Meanwhile we will struggle.  Our A grade talent will become disillusioned and leave the club.  This will all happen.

And seriously why would someone skilled and motivated want to stay st this club, a club that I have worshiped for over60 years, if they got an offer to go somewhere that was going places?

Far too many false dawns, and this looks familiarly like yet another.  

[The Swimming Dee 1,904]

Really don’t know what to make of that performance. Not sure we are a top 8 team and really don’t know what to make of Goodwin’s coaching anymore. Richmond are scary good.

So many positives in the first 3 quarters but we are so far away from being a really good team. 2 and 3 is a bad position to be in.

ANB has been absolutely awful the last 2 weeks and must go back to the 2s. He handballs to danger all the time.

Stretch ain’t up to it. He is in as a runner and every time he gets it he stops and goes backwards or sideways. He has completely lost the ability to take the game on. I’d rather give Spargo or Baker a go because Billy’s impact is a huge negative every time he gets the ball. 

Fritsch needs to come back in...he is clean

Harmes has to go also. Just not a clean player, always fumbling.

Weideman did OK. Competed, took some nice grabs and tackled hard. We must stick with him.

Lever’s best game for the club. Got Bette as the game went on and started to kick the call very well. He will be a star for us.

Good to see Melksham have a good game, I thought he was great.

We lose on Sunday and it is year over...it is as simple as that

[Demonsone 2,037]

17 minutes ago, Frosty Demon said:

Goodwin is the problem. He made selection mistakes and coached terribly against Collingwood last game of 2017. He continues to do the same. No Pederson or Hannan? Wont drop his love child Melksim or Lewis. Why do you think Clarkson got rid of Lewis? We beat Hawthorn one time and Clarkson made the changes he had to to get moving again. Goodwin has no idea. the buck stops with him.

Melksham kicked 4 goals ... but don’t disagree there are some big issues with the game plan .. Leak too many goals too quickly to be s finals contender .. very concerned about Goodwin as were have gone backwards in our defence since Roos... 

[buck_nekkid 5,858]

Try this:  3 goals in 5 quarters of football.

[bing181 9,235]

7 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

Our A grade talent will become disillusioned and leave the club.

Except that our "A grade talent" are all re-signing.

Got anything else?

[DeeZee 7,394]

Gee who would have thought that after round 5 we would be calling for the coaches head with the team performing so badly?

Same old Melbourne huh?

Super dissapointing is an understatement.

Stills seems we are cursed and destined to live out our football supporting lives in misery 

Edited April 24, 2018 by DeeZee

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,177]

5 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I'll add a couple of positives.

Hogan's field kicking went to another level tonight.

Brayshaw looked like he was gone at half time but responded well in the second.

Melksham is returning to form.

......

but we are still rubbish.

 

 

Hogan disposal efficiency was 50% and he on numerous occasions held up the ball too long. Unclear how you got to that observation.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

9 minutes ago, Pates said:

First quarter we were the better team but didn’t have the poise or class to make the most of it. Then in typical Melbourne style gave up cheap goals to give them the lead.  

This was it in a nutshell for me tonight, Pates.  The first quarter was symbolic of how we've been so far this year - lots of play, plenty of inside 50s and not enough to show for it.  It effects the players when they work so hard for so little, only to see the ball fly down the other end for a cheap, soccer off the ground style goal.  It infuriates us as supporters so you can only imagine how deflating it can.

9 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Well, it was an improvement on last week.  Honestly, we took it right to them for three quarters basically through raw effort.  I take that as a positive.  The shocking gameplan was still there,especially in the second quarter.  I also wonder if the chronic fumbles were due to the perceived pressure they felt they were under due to Richmond's reputation. 

Overall, I'm far happier with this than I was with last week's effort. 

It's also good to see a few players standing up who were looking cooked.  Lever had his best game for the club (all five of them), Jetta seems to have thrown off whatever was bothering him and someone gave Gus a good kicking at half time because he came out firing in the second half.  Also very nice to see Oliver nailing Dusty in a tackle, Jones playing like a leader and Gawn dominating.  Melksham kicking four was quite nice too.  Also, I don't get the bagging of the Weed tonight.  He shanked that shot on goal, but he also made his presence felt, laid tackles, took some marks and showed some really good hands. 

On the negative, THE UMPIRES! Holy Hell they were biased tonight.  That spear tackle into Jones' back?  How was that not called?  Is it only a push in the back if it's in a marking contest now?  The same umpire that paid multiple HTB against us in range of goals refused to pay any against them, even when Dusty took on three tacklers and then threw the ball to a teammate when he was caught.  Also agree with the comment previously that they throw the ball constantly.  And trip!  I saw at three trips not paid, at least one of which should be a suspension from previous cases. 

Wagner was shyte tonight.  Kent has done a Hammy again.  Stretch and ANB came to the club together and probably need to leave it together as well. 

Still, at least they looked like they gave a damn tonight.  Maybe if Goody can bring himself to admit his gameplan is shot and get someone who knows how to set forward structures properly we could see an improvement.  Oh, and we need to get a specialist kicking coach. 

Great post, Ralphy.  @bing181 made a ripper as well.  Better effort tonight against probably the best side in the comp right now, but some of our issues still remain.

The one thing for me is that I feel much better about our future tonight than I did last weekend.  The Tigers are a great side and we're a decent side down on confidence and missing two very key players.  Hopefully we can turn it around next weekend.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

I thought Gawn was great. I thought Hibberd and Lever played some of their better footy - which is good to see. Nev was mostly great tonight (especially early). I was impressed with Wagner at times (really love his intent). Weideman was ok, I thought  he actually showed some glimpses, and when he was in the ruck I thought he did ok - I would persist with him in our side. He will be ok. Melksham and Hogan good up forward.

Of the negatives. Salem should be first dropped IMO. I think he had 8 tackles early and nearly ended up on that. But all he shown to me was that he is actually a really good player - till he disappears. So go disappear at Casey. It would be good standard to set. You can have all the talent in the world but as soon as you stop working you get dropped. Very disappointed in Salem because he can actually play football, whereas others who were ordinary (Harmes, ANB, Stretch and Tyson) just aren't very good footballers. Not sure where Brayshaw is at either, but he is Watts like at times (no urgency), but unlike Watts we actually see some desperation sometimes. Not sure what is worse.

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by KingDingAling

[rufus 1,162]

4 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

We are [censored].  

Because Goodwin is [censored].

There will be no righting this ship.  He has to go.  [censored] him back off to Adelaide as quick as we can. 

I am so afraid, and am certain it will happen, but stubbornly the club will continue to back him in to save their face.  Meanwhile we will struggle.  Our A grade talent will become disillusioned and leave the club.  This will all happen.

[censored] Vince Lombardi couldn't get consistent effort out of these blokes.

At some point, this club has to realise there's only a certain amount a coach can do. At every juncture for at least the last 10, when there's been times on the field where things can either go ok, badly or go terribly, they've gone terribly. And the lack of care factor apparent on field is as frustrating as it is mystifying. 

Simon Goodwin has the worst job in Australian sport. Try putting together a strategic game plan for a group of professional sportspeople who don't want to do the hard work. Everyone knows how soft this club is. Every laughs at this club. Carlton will be licking their lips for when they get a chance to have a piece of us. You know what we're going to do when we play them don't you??

[ding 5,126]

2 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Except that our "A grade talent" are all re-signing.

Got anything else?

Contracts mean nothing. Lets just wait to see who asks to be traded.

If we keep up this current form trajectory, there may be a couple who ask to go somewhere else.

[Soidee 1,496]

Well that was another stinker on the big stage!  I brought some guests hoping this club would stand up.  Skills were D grade,  game plan is simply atrocious, and what brand is Jackson talking about?  We do not have a BRAND!!!!

Here is the MFCs rightful place in the bottom half of the ladder!  What is the point of having one of the best ruckman when our midfield cannot get the pill?

Another round of football another week of misery for this clubs supporters.

The MFC has recruited so called A Graders......where are they?

It stinks Jackson....it stinks!  Another year going down the drain very fast.

Im giving it away for a few weeks, emotionally out of gas.  Tired....very tired with pathetic football from a club that does not have any answers and continues to dwell in misery.