Farewell Jack Watts

[ChewyOnMyBoot 152]

Ok. I said before I wasn't going to add anything else here and I have been trying to wean myself off this thread.....BUT......the smell keeps getting worse and worse around here (and I don't think its coming from Mrs Chewy).

What I don't understand is that if Jack came back, in what has been put publicly out to everybody, in such a "poor" condition (although I've heard he did a PB in his 3km time trial), how is it that he was able to get himself back up into good enough condition to play the first round? Would that be physically possible? And, if his condition was so poor, how hard would he have had to have worked to have got the nod to play the first game. Particularly because they clearly (correctly) have the intention of not ever wanting to "gift" him (or any player for that matter) games.

And, if he had in fact turned up in as poor a condition as what has been suggested (though I have my doubts) I wouldn't have thought it possible for him to 'recover' the required level of fitness as quickly as he did - fit enough to go straight into the ones without any playing time in the JLT or in the 2's.

Add to this the inconsistent, changing explanations coming out of the club since this first came out, and there's pieces that just don't fit together. 

Also, given that he did play in the first round, I assume that he must have worked his backside off to get to the level of fitness required and 'made amends' for whatever his indiscretions, if any, may have been. What a fantastic example to the younger players that must have been to show that if "you do the crime you do your time and you work your f***i%ng backside off to make amends". But it's Jack, so of course we don't put the positives out into the public about him. We whip him harder.

And, Jack is a pretty bright kid. So when he says he was shocked by coach Simon Goodwin’s desire to put him on the trade table, does anybody else other that me wonder whether Goodwin had been performance "managing" him through the season at all?

Surely it would be in the Coaching 101 manual that a player should always be aware of how he is performing related to expectations. I know that's how it is in the business world anyway. You know, continual feedback. I would have thought it would be even more fundamental in elite sporting organisations. Particularly given MFC has been working with Leading Teams which is all about blunt and open honesty. So it disturbs me greatly that Jack was shocked. If he knew it was coming I have no doubt that he would have put his hand up and said that they had discussed it through the year. Watch how Jack handles himself tomorrow at the B&F if you have any doubts about that. He is certainly a young man of integrity.

Just stinks!! And stinks of a place where we've already been.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by ChewyOnMyBoot

[Gator 17,358]

4 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Same principle applies to Jordan Lewis and Sam Mitchell, surely.

 

Is this an attempt at humour ?

[old55 23,577]

5 hours ago, rpfc said:

Especially when Roos did get something out of him for an entire season.

Of course this trade will be judged on how he performs and how the asset we get performs.

To think otherwise is naive.

I think you are being naive.

This is a culture decision.  The club values preparation ond the contest and Jack falls short on both.

It's about whole club performance 

[SFebes 4,884]

1 hour ago, frankie_d said:

No too much to disagree with, but he worked his ass off to get that clear space. 

Which is what he is payed to do, week in week out and is the standard that Goodwin now expects

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

I understand the angst on here about the decision to trade him, but I'm mystified as to why people can't understand that it's happening.

Forget the on field stuff - in his 9th year at the club, he was unprofessional in his preparation during pre-season and then didn't do the right things when he got injured either.  Clearly, the club has had enough and feels as though they have come as far as they possibly can with him.  

Yep, he is a nice bloke who brings some good skills to the table.  But our list is largely made up of youth and we need to be setting the right example for them.  Watts clearly can't do that, even though he's been in the system for 9 years, and it's apparent that the club don't  want that around the club anymore.  

And while some aren't happy how it's played out, Watts' own manager praised the club for how honest and transparent they have been since it's all unfolded.

Exactly. People should be praising the Club for having the balls to make the hard calls to build a winning culture and set much higher standards, both on and off field. If it was Petracca I could understand the angst, but not Watts, I just can't see why people don't "get it." It's got nothing to do with his QB goal or being a nice bloke.

[Akum 2,660]

58 minutes ago, Tough Kent said:

Couldn't have said it any better. People who are nastily pointing their finger at Goody and the club should perhaps be pointing it at Jack, himself. 

Except that by the end of next week, Jack Watts is no longer a going concern for us. Any further arguments about who's to blame are futile, and as with almost all such matters, there's blame on both sides.

Goody et al are. There the ones that will be taking our team into the future for us.

And a lot of what they've done over the last few weeks fills me with foreboding rather than confidence. If you're feeling complete confidence in them, it's despite rather than because of how they've handled this.

[CityDee 738]

7 hours ago, No10 said:

I'm watching that v Coll goal, again.

Amazing when you think what Danger said about Watts being one of the games best finishes, "when he has the ball inside 50 you back him in" (Trac knew it too)

Hope he goes to Geel.

I like the bounce with the opposite hand to balance up before slotting it , as pure as it gets with Watts and at his height he is a one off . 

[sue 9,106]

Chewy raises some interesting points which I'd like to see answered by the remove Watts brigade.

How did he get himself fit enough for Round 1 without doing things that would be a good example to others?  Or do you say that good example can't override the original sin?

And if the FD had been demanding more all year so aggresively, why was Watts shocked? He's not stupid and putting it down to his arrogance or similar seems a bit weak to me.

[Tough Kent 2,137]

7 minutes ago, sue said:

Chewy raises some interesting points which I'd like to see answered by the remove Watts brigade.

How did he get himself fit enough for Round 1 without doing things that would be a good example to others?  Or do you say that good example can't override the original sin?

And if the FD had been demanding more all year so aggresively, why was Watts shocked? He's not stupid and putting it down to his arrogance or similar seems a bit weak to me.

So we're happy Watts reached a satisfactory level of fitness as opposed to being the best he can be? I hope our club now has higher standards than this. 

[demon3165 2,718]

A bold but brave move by the club he will only be traded if a club wants to pay overs or if it fits in to their plans if not I believe he will still be with us.

[faultydet 7,594]

6 minutes ago, sue said:

Chewy raises some interesting points which I'd like to see answered by the remove Watts brigade.

How did he get himself fit enough for Round 1 without doing things that would be a good example to others?  Or do you say that good example can't override the original sin?

And if the FD had been demanding more all year so aggresively, why was Watts shocked? He's not stupid and putting it down to his arrogance or similar seems a bit weak to me.

Sue, you seem to be a bit conspiratorial about this, and it's unlike you.

 

Ask yourself why Jacks manager has been praising Melbourne for it's handling of the Watts situation, rather than thinking it's all b.s, and we have blindsided our own player.

He was dropped more than once, and being picked for round 1 may have shown the match committee was actually too soft on him, when maybe their instinct was not to play him at all.

 

Jack is a champion bloke, but he does not behave like a champion player, when he has all of the skills to become one.

He wasted that chance, not his club.

[sue 9,106]

8 minutes ago, faultydet said:

Sue, you seem to be a bit conspiratorial about this, and it's unlike you.

 

Not being conspiratorial, genuine questions.  The first requires as answer.   Perhaps you are saying yes he did (almost) redeem himself for the pre-season slackness, but then slipped into bad habits again.  Trouble is we have evidence of the pre-season slackness but only speculation about later in the season, rehab sins etc.

The question of 'shock' can be asked without assuming he was deliberately blind-sided by some sort of plot.  Personally I suspect that the FD arrived at the decision a lot later than many believe (I should say 'suspect' since we know nothing).

Edited October 7, 2017 by sue
omitted 'almost'

[Dr.D 1,771]

When Watts gets dropped every year to Casey, it's not because of his lack pf professionalism or preparation, it's because of his form. And every time Goodwin or Roos said 'he knows what he needs to work on', we all know what those things are. Harden up!

Goodwin isn't going to say this to the media but this is definitely the true reason behind it all. 

[faultydet 7,594]

4 minutes ago, sue said:

Not being conspiratorial, genuine questions.  The first requires as answer.   Perhaps you are saying yes he did (almost) redeem himself for the pre-season slackness, but then slipped into bad habits again.  Trouble is we have evidence of the pre-season slackness but only speculation about later in the season, rehab sins etc.

The question of 'shock' can be asked without assuming he was deliberately blind-sided by some sort of plot.  Personally I suspect that the FD arrived at the decision a lot later than many believe (I should say 'suspect' since we know nothing).

If Jack is the intelligent bloke he is portrayed as,  nothing about this should come as a shock. 

I trust that we have quality coaches now. They would have spelled things out quite clearly for him.

[Gator 17,358]

Watts was dropped after the GWS game.  He was dropped due to his lack of chasing and defensive efforts.  He was lucky to survive from the week before. 

Late in quarter 2 his half-hearted chases on the far right hand forward flank were arguably the worst I've seen in 40 years.  You have to see them to believe them.  I don't think it's a coincidence he was dropped for the following week.  Richmond have shown that what you do when you don't have the ball is as important as what you do when you do. 

His "pressure acts" may well be "elite" for a tall forward, but clearly there's too much variation in his defensive efforts for the FD.  And no doubt his contested work could be far better. 

Also, we're not privy to the game-plan Goodwin wants to use next year.  While it wouldn't be absolutely set in stone he'd already have a fair idea of what he wants to implement over summer.  He may not think Jack is a great fit.

Ultimately though, the writing is plain for all who want to read it.  The club has already told you and it principally involves 3 things:

1. For a 9 year 150 game player they feel his field play is still not at the consistent levels expected.

2.  Preparation and standards.  Does he do the extras expected of a senior player ?  Is he committed to be the best he can be ?  Or is he a semi professional, who coasts by on raw talent ?  I think we all know the answer

3.  The club is already worried about his influence over young players.  We have a young group who'll learn bad habits quicker than good ones.  Mahoney wouldn't publicly raise this as a concern on a whim

If one parks their emotions to the side for just a moment, it's as clear as day why he's on the trade table. 

[SFebes 4,884]

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Watts was dropped after the GWS game.  He was dropped due to his lack of chasing and defensive efforts.  He was lucky to survive from the week before. 

Late in quarter 2 his half-hearted chases on the far right hand forward flank were arguably the worst I've seen in 40 years.  You have to see them to believe them.  I don't think it's a coincidence he was dropped for the following week.  Richmond have shown that what you do when you don't have the ball is as important as what you do when you do. 

His "pressure acts" may well be "elite" for a tall forward, but clearly there's too much variation in his defensive efforts for the FD.  And no doubt his contested work could be far better. 

Also, we're not privy to the game-plan Goodwin wants to use next year.  While it wouldn't be absolutely set in stone he'd already have a fair idea of what he wants to implement over summer.  He may not think Jack is a great fit.

Ultimately though, the writing is plain for all who want to read it.  The club has already told you and it principally involves 3 things:

1. For a 9 year 150 game player they feel his field play is still not at the consistent levels expected.

2.  Preparation and standards.  Does he do the extras expected of a senior player ?  Is he committed to be the best he can be ?  Or is he a semi professional, who coasts by on raw talent ?  I think we all know the answer

3.  The club is already worried about his influence over young players.  We have a young group who'll learn bad habits quicker than good ones.  Mahoney wouldn't publicly raise this as a concern on a whim

If one parks their emotions to the side for just a moment, it's as clear as day why he's on the trade table. 

He was also lucky to come back in for the Coll game IMO, didn't shoot the lights out in the VFL from what I've seen

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

On 28/09/2017 at 10:10 AM, Dr.D said:

I couldn't be more happy to see Watts go. This is like Christmas coming early.  Whoever wants to keep Watts can't see the forest for the trees. You can't carry soft guys like Watts, especially in finals. Every week he plays we know one thing and that is that he isn't going to give 100% and that his tackling efforts will be disgraceful. Pedersen played better in 5 games than Watts has showed in his whole career. Give him away for some steak knives and thanks very much. 

 

On 28/09/2017 at 10:25 AM, Dr.D said:

Umm Adelaide lose out. Lever just for pick 10 ? The later picks cancel themselves out so Lever for just pick 10 is not enough. 

 

On 28/09/2017 at 5:13 PM, Dr.D said:

youre talking about 1 game? he has been an average player over his 8 years. He has been inconsistent in his good form but his poor second efforts (and poor first efforts) have been consistent to a point where our expectations of watts are so low

 

On 01/10/2017 at 1:20 PM, Dr.D said:

i can't believe this thread has got so much momentum. The last 2 premiership teams, the Dogs and the Tigers show that you can't have guys like Watts running around who blows over in the wind. You need relentless pressure and intensity. Watts has neither but for some reason people on here are like 'oh but he has nice foot skills'. There you have it, you've prioritised foot skills before hunger and thats an amateur way of building a list. Hunger and appetite for the contest always comes first. I'm really excited about Watts going. Finally I can rock up to the footy and be one step closer to 22 men applying manic pressure instead of 21. 

 

On 01/10/2017 at 1:35 PM, Dr.D said:

no idea what you just said

 

On 01/10/2017 at 1:45 PM, Dr.D said:

He also plays like the timid kid he was when he first started. He has more confidence with the ball in hand but his defensive pressure stuff is why he is getting the boot and fair enough. Hogan has to improve in this area too. We can't have a forward line of Hogan and Watts. Watts runs around the pressure and never straight lines the ball or man and Hogan spends too much time on the ground or staging. This is the biggest blessing in disguise

 

On 01/10/2017 at 1:47 PM, Dr.D said:

Round 23 has way too much focus. We were so sh!t against north melbourne twice, and what about against Freo at the G and even brisbane at the G. Pathetic efforts which are bound to happen when you have guys that choose when to dig in or not. 

 

 

On 03/10/2017 at 9:27 PM, Dr.D said:

it all comes down to how we rate watts. goodwin doesn't rate him and either do i.  i dont recall him backing into a pack once in his 9 year career. his tackling efforts are nothing short of a disgrace. 

 

On 04/10/2017 at 5:58 PM, Dr.D said:

demonland has stooped to a new low.

who cares how nice he is! its about making our club ruthless again and jack is the least ruthless on the list. He shouldve gone years ago.

All year (in fact the last several years) we have had to carry watts and his weak defensive and tackling efforts. The only reason why Watts managed to last this long is because Roos, Neeld etc. all came along and wanted to see if they could change him..but they couldn't. 

And anytime you mention the elephant in the room which is that he is arguably the softest player in the league, i hear the same dribble.."...but his skills are good'. The reason jack has been loyal is because he wouldnt have been playing footy at most other clubs and we gifted him the first 100 games of his career.

 

 

On 04/10/2017 at 6:54 PM, Dr.D said:

People worried about Watts playing a blinder against us? He had 2 blinders in his 150 games, lol! He'll be delisted in 2 seasons. Another feather in Goodwins cap.

 

On 04/10/2017 at 9:34 PM, Dr.D said:

ok admittedly im not a jack watts fan. he has infuriated me from the start with his soft football and to be honest I'm a bit surprised that people aren't glad for the trade.

I acknowledge that it maybe couldve been handled a bit better but at the end of the day goodwin doesnt want watts in the team and blind freddy can see its because he plays weak footy.  Its not jacks fault, he just doesnt have that killer instinct to tackle or chase with ferocity. you can't teach that and why does everyone go mute when we talk about this issue. 

if we make finals next year i'd trust watts to kick straight but i would never trust him to put his head over the footy or back into packs etc. his efforts in the phyical department are up there with cale morton

 

On 05/10/2017 at 6:50 AM, Dr.D said:

i'm just sick of watts not going hard at the footy. i'd prefer tom mcdonald torching the ball in the d50 than see Watts playing bruise free footy

 

On 05/10/2017 at 4:21 PM, Dr.D said:

a star? lol. 

 

20 hours ago, Dr.D said:

i know i'm sounding like a broken record but jack is a fringe player. stats dont show the number of contests he squibs

 

19 hours ago, Dr.D said:

pedersen is 5 times the presence than watts up forward and i look forward to a fwd line of men up there now with jack out of the way.

pedersen is going to smash it.

 

19 hours ago, Dr.D said:

Ron Burgundy: "watts is hard at it". now ive heard it all!

watts has had 9 seasons to play with passion and intensity but he isnt wired that way

 

19 hours ago, Dr.D said:

2 arguable best on grounds. i cant think jack getting close to best on honours, let alone two, in his 150 games.

 

19 hours ago, Dr.D said:

for some reason everyone was ok when we ditched howe who was in the AA squad but now a fringe player in watts leaves everyone is cracking it.

probably the same people that called Bate the next pavlich, strauss the next suckling and tapscott the next riccuito

 

19 hours ago, Dr.D said:

which games did he get 3 votes for?

 

15 hours ago, Dr.D said:

he loves the club but never put his body on the line for it. i wish all the best to Watts but like others here have mentioned, other clubs won't put up with his lulls in performance like we did. As lloyd said on footy classified, gifted the first 100 games when his form didnt warrant it. 

 

15 hours ago, Dr.D said:

finally, someone talking some sense. 

 

11 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

When Watts gets dropped every year to Casey, it's not because of his lack pf professionalism or preparation, it's because of his form. And every time Goodwin or Roos said 'he knows what he needs to work on', we all know what those things are. Harden up!

Goodwin isn't going to say this to the media but this is definitely the true reason behind it all. 

Correct me if I’m wrong Doc but I’m picking up a bit on a bit of a vibe that you don’t rate Watts? 

[Redleg 40,926]

Just out of curiosity, where do we think JW will finish in this year's Bluey?

[SFebes 4,884]

12 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Just out of curiosity, where do we think JW will finish in this year's Bluey?

19th

Edited October 7, 2017 by SFebey

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

7 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Just out of curiosity, where do we think JW will finish in this year's Bluey?

He’ll sign with Geelong on Monday and will be told not to attend. He won’t poll a vote. 

[Skuit 10,031]

This whole Jack Watts thing is so Jack Watts.

[Sargent Shultz 267]

6 hours ago, Beetle said:

The players shouldn't have even needed motivating in that last game against Collingwood! Sure the coaching staff have to take some responsibility but ultimately, as far as i'm concerned it was the players that let the club down that day....the effort in the first quarter was inexcusable! But then again, maybe the coaches should have cranked "Eye of the Tiger" a little louder in the rooms before the game.

Ok- motivating may have been the wrong word, substitute it for preparation. They had all week to prepare the players for the do or die match against Collingwood, and they could not get it done. I get the players are responsible for knowing their role and playing their role - and they messed it up. What if "their role" was wrong for that team (Collingwood) on that day (must make finals, no second chance)? The players were clearly not prepared properly- they lost! Perhaps the music track before the game should have been "we're all in this together" Maybe the coaches at MFC a few in this forum should read up on the latest in people management

 “Simply put, this is one insight we heard echoed by tens of thousands of great managers: People don't change that much.
Don't waste time trying to put in what was left out.
Try to draw out what was left in.
That is hard enough.” 
― Marcus Buckingham

“In the minds of great managers, consistent poor performance is not primarily a matter of weakness, stupidity, disobedience, or disrespect. It is a matter of miscasting.” 
― Marcus Buckingham

Melbourne will be a lesser club because they coaches could not find the right role for Jack Watts - a 150 game player with elite football skills.......but then again, "i know nuthingg"

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Goodwin and Taylor will do what they think best neither have done much wrong in my eyes.

Jack's had plenty of time to put his playing capabilities beyond doubt by now, yet here we are, still  arguing about them.

At best the picture remains unclear, at worst he hasn't done enough .

Frankly more worried about how Connors can demonstrate " no conflict of interest"  at Collingwood and in particular contracts for people like Trak coming up.

Am surprised ( well maybe I'm not) the AFL haven't commented on this little manoeuvre.

I'm also  interested in how a player manager with complete, presumed private  knowledge of the players he manages wouldn't put this information along with offers made to his clients available to his new employer for their advantage.

The issue of possible early disclosure/ insider trading type stuff bothers me.

 

[demoniac 1,333]

5 minutes ago, Dockett 32 said:

Goodwin and Taylor will do what they think best neither have done much wrong in my eyes.

Jack's had plenty of time to put his playing capabilities beyond doubt by now, yet here we are, still  arguing about them.

At best the picture remains unclear, at worst he hasn't done enough .

Frankly more worried about how Connors can demonstrate " no conflict of interest"  at Collingwood and in particular contracts for people like Trak coming up.

Am surprised ( well maybe I'm not) the AFL haven't commented on this little manoeuvre.

I'm also  interested in how a player manager with complete, presumed private  knowledge of the players he manages wouldn't put this information along with offers made to his clients available to his new employer for their advantage.

The issue of possible early disclosure/ insider trading type stuff bothers me.

 

Ned Guy is going to the Pies.

Not the firs player manager to go to clubland ie Dan Richardson, Craig Vozzo.

 

[beelzebub 23,376]

16 minutes ago, Dockett 32 said:

Goodwin and Taylor will do what they think best neither have done much wrong in my eyes.

Jack's had plenty of time to put his playing capabilities beyond doubt by now, yet here we are, still  arguing about them.

At best the picture remains unclear, at worst he hasn't done enough .

Frankly more worried about how Connors can demonstrate " no conflict of interest"  at Collingwood and in particular contracts for people like Trak coming up.

Am surprised ( well maybe I'm not) the AFL haven't commented on this little manoeuvre.

I'm also  interested in how a player manager with complete, presumed private  knowledge of the players he manages wouldn't put this information along with offers made to his clients available to his new employer for their advantage.

The issue of possible early disclosure/ insider trading type stuff bothers me.

 

how is this possibly Taylor's domain ??

Goodwin ... yes, Macca ..yes,  ...Viney...yes... some folk in leadership group...yes.

Taylor gets to look for talent...spend currency..( and then again not as he only makes suggestions )

[mo64 5,874]

12 minutes ago, Sargent Shultz said:

Ok- motivating may have been the wrong word, substitute it for preparation. They had all week to prepare the players for the do or die match against Collingwood, and they could not get it done. I get the players are responsible for knowing their role and playing their role - and they messed it up. What if "their role" was wrong for that team (Collingwood) on that day (must make finals, no second chance)? The players were clearly not prepared properly- they lost! Perhaps the music track before the game should have been "we're all in this together" Maybe the coaches at MFC a few in this forum should read up on the latest in people management

 “Simply put, this is one insight we heard echoed by tens of thousands of great managers: People don't change that much.
Don't waste time trying to put in what was left out.
Try to draw out what was left in.
That is hard enough.” 
― Marcus Buckingham

“In the minds of great managers, consistent poor performance is not primarily a matter of weakness, stupidity, disobedience, or disrespect. It is a matter of miscasting.” 
― Marcus Buckingham

Melbourne will be a lesser club because they coaches could not find the right role for Jack Watts - a 150 game player with elite football skills.......but then again, "i know nuthingg"

And WTF would Marcus Buckingham know about coaching or managing a sporting team competing at the highest level? Being a manager in the business world has no correlation with a sports coach or manager. 

Miscasting? Why should a manager make exceptions for a consistent poor performer? If you can find someone else who can fulfill the role that you ask them to play, then you don't waste your energies on the under performer.