Farewell Jack Watts

[daisycutter 29,616]

1 minute ago, mo64 said:

If that's the case, then I'm waiting for you to castigate Roos for trading Howe for Kennedy. He couldn't get the best out of Howe, and Kennedy has been delisted.

trading howe was a mistake. i thought so then and still do

[rpfc 28,433]

2 minutes ago, mo64 said:

If that's the case, then I'm waiting for you to castigate Roos for trading Howe for Kennedy. He couldn't get the best out of Howe, and Kennedy has been delisted.

Was that even the trade?

Happy to castigate but it isn't black and white these judgements. Where would Howe have played with Hibberd at the club etc.

I really don't think my point is controversial.

[Beetle 4,660]

6 minutes ago, Sargent Shultz said:

Just like Jack, I'm moving on, as everything that can be said about this sorry affair has been said. My overall worry about the current coaching team is their failure to get the best out of Jack Watts last year, and the whole team in the two crucial matches that we needed to win to make the finals. They had a player (Watts) who finished 5th in last years B+F, and a team who beat Adelaide by 40+ at Adelaide, yet they could not motivate both for 120 minutes when a finals spot was within reach? Perhaps, the coaches need to do a bit of soul searching to find why they failed at the crucial hour. Sacking Watts is such a soft option.................but then again "I know nuuthhiinggg"

The players shouldn't have even needed motivating in that last game against Collingwood! Sure the coaching staff have to take some responsibility but ultimately, as far as i'm concerned it was the players that let the club down that day....the effort in the first quarter was inexcusable! But then again, maybe the coaches should have cranked "Eye of the Tiger" a little louder in the rooms before the game.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

3 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Was that even the trade?

Happy to castigate but it isn't black and white these judgements. Where would Howe have played with Hibberd at the club etc.

I really don't think my point is controversial.

Every team in the comp can fit an AA player into their side. Somewhere.

 

[Tough Kent 2,137]

Watts has had 9 years to make himself untradeable.

[sydneydee 687]

I am extremely disappointed and angry about this decision. 

My 5 year old son has the number 4 on the back of his jumper as would a lot of kids of his age bracket. 

My concern is that is a rookie mistake by a rookie coach which will destroy the culture that Roos established.

For those happy about this move I wonder how you will feel when Watts makes the difference at a Geelong or a Sydney that gets them to a GF.  Watts is entering his best years and will stand up in finals. He was much better than some of our bulls in the final round.

I love this club and I hope that sanity prevails.  

 

[sue 9,106]

It would be a lot easier to agree with the 'trade Watts' brigade and the FD's decision if there weren't other clubs lining up for him.  I was ambivalent originally (though critical of the tone of the discussion), but that really worries me. 

We better get decent trade value for him or the sadness that many of us feel will turn into something closer to rage.

Edited October 6, 2017 by sue

[demoniac 1,333]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

There is a lot in this. Must be a very sour taste in mouth current for the lad. Id be feeling dead awkward turning up Monday night knowing all those eyes are on you, all the whispers. Be a real mixed bag of feelings.

Its easy to fotget hes only midway or so through his twenties. A lot of people are quick to hang it on him. Hes far from the perfect footballer but hes an ok guy , well liked, quick to be community involvemed. Just making his way in the world except unlike the majority of us he does this under a constant spotlight with many just salivating at the suggestion of a trip up.

I think he handles himself with great aplomb all things considered.

He wont be in Red and Blue next year. I think it might have been 3 or 4 so months ago i posted something along the lines that it wouldn't surprise me ( back then ) if he was elsewhere next season.

The wolves were circling, baying for blood, needing their sacrifice to the "culture gods" . The Spanish Inquisitors would be most impressed. There's so much of a " he's innocent if drowned, otherwise burn him" about Jack's journey.

Brought in as the Saviour and pilloried for be just a good player, not the dilverer of success. Hes human , not an Adonis after all. He was/is always just a player. He's been judged and sentenced upon the demands imposed by a club and its fans starved of glory. 

So when the truth outed ; he's not the Messiah, just a naughty boy (as judged by those looking for someone/something to personify a clubs frustration ,and failure )...it was inevitable....Stone him, Stone him !

After the bloodletting and the mopping up at the Alter of Expectation the Club, its administration, its football creationists are going to have to damn well succeed lest the gaze and scorn fall upon them.( Where probably it ought be all along )

Seems prevalent among human conditions to seek an entity other than yourself to justify action.

MELBOURNE will need to own everything about this,learn and move on. History's page will always be there to remind us, and them.

The Coach, Captain and Footy Dept Chief have made it plain Jack does not meet elite standards of training and preparation that the game now demands. 9 years into his career is this ok? Can he get by on talent? Is this a good example for his younger teammates? Jones' comments showed a concern about our young players preparation outside of the club.

And yes the club is culpable for being a #farceshambles when Jack arrived. But if after 3 years of Roos, 1 year of Goodwin and 6 years of Missen he does not meet training and preparation standards is that the footy department's fault or Jack's?

[mo64 5,874]

12 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Was that even the trade?

Happy to castigate but it isn't black and white these judgements. Where would Howe have played with Hibberd at the club etc.

I really don't think my point is controversial.

Of course it isn't black and white, which makes your initial comment ridiculous. And Hibberd came a year after Howe left, so that's irrelevant.

Imagine if Watts wins a B&F at his new club in his 2nd year, while his replacement is languishing in the seconds. You'll want the FD sacked. Well that is exactly that case with the Bernie Vince trade, who won a B&F in his 2nd year at MFC. Adelaide acquired M. Crouch with that pick, who did little in his initial 2 years, but won a B&F in his 4th.

And you also have to factor in the salary cap space that is freed up with Watts leaving.

Edited October 6, 2017 by mo64

[SFebes 4,884]

2 hours ago, No10 said:

I'm watching that v Coll goal, again.

Amazing when you think what Danger said about Watts being one of the games best finishes, "when he has the ball inside 50 you back him in" (Trac knew it too)

Hope he goes to Geel.

Have seen this QB goal mentioned so many times like he won the flag for us! One sole memory for the whole year everyone keeps turning back to as the saving grace to not trade him! People do realise we were in front when Jack kicked that goal don't they? What would've happened if in a real GF Jack had to get that ball in a high pressure contented area? Well the answer is he wouldn't even be in that position in the first place, he'd get himself as far away as possible. Jack won't ever stand up in a final and that's where we are heading. Thank Omac for that goal just as much as Watts, as it was he didn't have any pressure chasing him and kicked it from 15m out anyway.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

13 minutes ago, Tough Kent said:

Watts has had 9 years to make himself untradeable.

Same principle applies to Jordan Lewis and Sam Mitchell, surely.

 

[demoniac 1,333]

19 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Read the Herald Sun article. Despite the fiction here, he's ranked 'elite' for forward pressure stuff. Just look at the stats.

 

Shows the limitation of Stats. Only as good as the parameters applied. 

His defensive skills are in no way elite.

[Tough Kent 2,137]

1 minute ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Same principle applies to Jordan Lewis and Sam Mitchell, surely.

 

Bit different mate. They were at or very close to the end. Jack is coming into his prime. 

[Beetle 4,660]

3 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Have seen this QB goal mentioned so many times like he won the flag for us! One sole memory for the whole year everyone keeps turning back to as the saving grace to not trade him! People do realise we were in front when Jack kicked that goal don't they? What would've happened if in a real GF Jack had to get that ball in a high pressure contented area? Well the answer is he wouldn't even be in that position in the first place, he'd get himself as far away as possible. Jack won't ever stand up in a final and that's where we are heading. Thank Omac for that goal just as much as Watts, as it was he didn't have any pressure chasing him and kicked it from 15m out anyway.

Thank Hibberd before anyone for that goal. Still an amazing goal from Jack....happiest i've been all season after he kicked that.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

1 minute ago, demoniac said:

Shows the limitation of Stats. Only as good as the parameters applied. 

His defensive skills are in no way elite.

And many people in Kansas believe the world is 6,000 years old.

They simply choose to ignore the data.

 

[sue 9,106]

3 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Thank Omac for that goal just as much as Watts, as it was he didn't have any pressure chasing him and kicked it from 15m out anyway.

Basing this discussion on specific incidents is silly.  But I can't resist pointing out that Watts had the pressure of blokes like you looking over his shoulder.  You also forget that he saved a goal at the other end so he seems to have got to the right position twice.

[demoniac 1,333]

1 minute ago, Ron Burgundy said:

And many people in Kansas believe the world is 6,000 years old.

They simply choose to ignore the data.

 

Footy stats are only as reliable as the parameters set. Not a controversial statement.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

1 minute ago, Tough Kent said:

Bit different mate. They were at or very close to the end. Jack is coming into his prime. 

That's what concerns me.

Everyone here wants the best for this club. My view is that in a year or two we will want/need a player exactly like Jack Watts.

Many here disagree obviously, but I have lost faith in the ability of this club to get these decisions right. That Roos wouldn't trade him says a lot to me.

 

[Redleg 40,925]

26 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

trading howe was a mistake. i thought so then and still do

I agree and didn't want to clear him or Dunn and now Jack.

However, I am a fan and I have to trust the people that PJ trusts to get the job done. I have no other choice.

This is a tough call that is polarising, but tough calls often have to be made.

It may be a good call, or a bad call, history will tell us that.

ATM it is the call and the club has to move on and try to keep improving.

I will trust this FD to get that job done.

If they fail, they will go.

Time to show support for the club.

[Tough Kent 2,137]

4 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

That's what concerns me.

Everyone here wants the best for this club. My view is that in a year or two we will want/need a player exactly like Jack Watts.

Many here disagree obviously, but I have lost faith in the ability of this club to get these decisions right. That Roos wouldn't trade him says a lot to me.

 

It's a massive call from Goody. Something tells me this might be a pivotal moment in Goody's tenure. At least he has very good people like McCartney, Viney, Rawlings, Mahoney, etc to guide him with such decisions.

[sue 9,106]

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I agree and didn't want to clear him or Dunn and now Jack.

However, I am a fan and I have to trust the people that PJ trusts to get the job done. I have no other choice.

This is a tough call that is polarising, but tough calls often have to be made.

It may be a good call, or a bad call, history will tell us that.

ATM it is the call and the club has to move on and try to keep improving.

I will trust this FD to get that job done.

If they fail, they will go.

Time to show support for the club.

Agree, we have no choice but to hope the FD got it right.  But it is a huge gamble - yet another failed epoch will be a total disaster after so many years in the wilderness.  That's why I worry that the risk is too large.  You can afford a blunder or two if you are Geelong or the Swans.  Presumably the FD sees the risk the other way around.

I don't know how we are meant to show support for the club since I think only 1 poster has threatened not to renew their membership.  Perhaps those who support the decision should buy double memberships....

[Redleg 40,925]

1 minute ago, sue said:

 

I don't know how we are meant to show support for the club since I think only 1 poster has threatened not to renew their membership.  Perhaps those who support the decision should buy double memberships....

Or buy the remaining Jack Watts memorabilia at the Demon shop.

[mo64 5,874]

2 minutes ago, sue said:

Agree, we have no choice but to hope the FD got it right.  But it is a huge gamble - yet another failed epoch will be a total disaster after so many years in the wilderness.  That's why I worry that the risk is too large.  You can afford a blunder or two if you are Geelong or the Swans.  Presumably the FD sees the risk the other way around.

I don't know how we are meant to show support for the club since I think only 1 poster has threatened not to renew their membership.  Perhaps those who support the decision should buy double memberships....

How is it a gamble trading a player with no top 3 B&F placings in 9 years? 

There is just too much emotional attachment to Watts.

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

With the realisation of Watts leaving the MFC, its starting to burn in the guts quite a bit.

Pre 2014 is irrelevant to me and to most members that have joined since. Our product on the field has improved since and so has Jacks in my opinion.

People are allowed to remember his fine moments like QB. For people to suggest he won't make the cut in finals is a little bit out there.

We haven't played in a final since you know when but the QB game certainly felt like one, the "experts" labelled that game as the best and fastest spectacle they'd witnessed up to that point. Jack passed with flying colours. 

There are other examples too but they have been brought up many times.

No one is the 100% complete footballer.

I can see two ways Watts stays, he can tell the club to F off and have everything thrown at him until the commencement of next season and we will be going around in circles yet again on here.

Or, can one of our more astute Demonlanders come up with a brilliant "Keep Watts" campaign?

Good luck Jacky boy and many that attend the B&F will thank you for sticking with what was an irrelevant place all those years ago.

 

 

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

11 minutes ago, Tough Kent said:

It's a massive call from Goody. Something tells me this might be a pivotal moment in Goody's tenure. At least he has very good people like McCartney, Viney, Rawlings, Mahoney, etc to guide him with such decisions.

It's obviously not a decision being lightly made.

In my view, it's an unnecessary gamble to take. The value simply does not break well.