Andrew Gaff

[Wells 11 5,400]

40 minutes ago, Akum said:

If Lever & Gaff truly are within our grasp, I can't see any way we could get them both without giving up this year's & next year's first rounders (and probably more). However, we'd be getting two players of proven first-round quality for two players of likely (but not proven) first-round quality. And both the two players that we get would be exactly what we need.

The risk is that we carry forward a three-year "hole" in our age profile, so that if in 5-7 years we're near the top but without a flag, we have an old list (like Norf's now) that would need a major overhaul again.

You're presuming, if this happened that we dont land any gems with late pics. Given our ( ahem) impeccable record with high draft picks in past years  I see the sense in trying to bring in established talent and hoping for some quality late. eg Nibbler, Oscar, Frost. Even This year we brought in Hannan ...with Weid still coming and Keilty and Maynard. A good list with ingrained attitudes and leadership and quality coaching can bring on low draft picks far more easily. 

[#36 11]

On 05/09/2017 at 8:10 AM, Matt Demon said:

I'd offer Tyson for Gaff with a swap of latter picks to get it done.

Tyson needs to go, anywhere, but I think only GC would take him lol

Edited September 8, 2017 by #36

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,175]

1 hour ago, #36 said:

Tyson needs to go, anywhere, but I think only GC would take him lol

I reckon if anywhere GC and WC are the most likely destinations. Eagles have just retired their two first dibs inside mids. Issue would be I cant see Tyson agreeing to a move let alone an interstate move.

[dazzledavey36 54,899]

Richmond proved tonight that if you continue to add to the midfield brigade with more depth in Prestia and Caddy then top 4 is not out of reach.

We add Gaff and we'll be easily top 8 maybe pushing top 4.

Do whatever it takes Dees!

[rjay 24,921]

14 hours ago, Wells 11 said:

You're presuming, if this happened that we dont land any gems with late pics. Given our ( ahem) impeccable record with high draft picks in past years  I see the sense in trying to bring in established talent and hoping for some quality late. eg Nibbler, Oscar, Frost. Even This year we brought in Hannan ...with Weid still coming and Keilty and Maynard. A good list with ingrained attitudes and leadership and quality coaching can bring on low draft picks far more easily. 

...and Geelong's gems are.

You still need top end talent coming through 'Wells'...your namesake at the cats hasn't had the luxury and their list is looking unbalanced. They've staved off the inevitable rebuild but it is coming and by the look of last nights game, very soon.

Not saying we don't take the punt now, with our young talent I think we have to it's just there is a downside. 'Akum' is right to pint it out.

If we pursue top end talent then we must win a flag with this group or it's going to be a very long way off.

[Akum 2,660]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Richmond proved tonight that if you continue to add to the midfield brigade with more depth in Prestia and Caddy then top 4 is not out of reach.

We add Gaff and we'll be easily top 8 maybe pushing top 4.

Do whatever it takes Dees!

I think it's more that Prestia & Caddy being first-hands-on-the-ball-at-stoppages allows Dusty & Cotchin to be the mids who take the ball away from clearances (instead of at the bottom of packs trying to get it out) and therefore much more damaging.

I'd like to see us think about it a bit more and use Oliver & Petracca (who use the ball by foot much better than Tyson / Viney / Jones) in the same way as Dusty & Cotch.

[Redleg 40,912]

46 minutes ago, Akum said:

I think it's more that Prestia & Caddy being first-hands-on-the-ball-at-stoppages allows Dusty & Cotchin to be the mids who take the ball away from clearances (instead of at the bottom of packs trying to get it out) and therefore much more damaging.

I'd like to see us think about it a bit more and use Oliver & Petracca (who use the ball by foot much better than Tyson / Viney / Jones) in the same way as Dusty & Cotch.

Oliver is however already our best extractor of the ball. He is best left to that with some more emphasis on kicking when he can.

Trac is one who could play like Martin as he has the physical attributes and is able to do the extraordinary.

We clearly need outside run to complement Viney, Oliver and Jones. I thought Billy might be one but he had a poor year. Next season will be critical for him.

The Tigers won yesterday with manic pressure, just like the way the Coach played, hard and tough at the man. The Cats were harassed out of their game. Even Danger kept kicking it out on the full and went at 45% efficiency, a record low for him.

Add some Tigers pace, a couple of good new mids in Prestia and Caddy and the runaway Brownlow medallist setting them up for goal after goal when the Cats made a comeback and you have the easy win.

If we had a sceric of the Tigers' pressure in the first quarter against the Pies, we would be playing Port tonight.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,175]

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Richmond proved tonight that if you continue to add to the midfield brigade with more depth in Prestia and Caddy then top 4 is not out of reach.

We add Gaff and we'll be easily top 8 maybe pushing top 4.

Do whatever it takes Dees!

Richmond and Adelaide also proved that possibly the most important role is a quality intercept spoiler. The amount of pressure dumped kicks forward in both games that Lever and Rance controlled was massive. The other obvious difference in the game from both sides was the defensive running of the victorious mids in both cases. I would give up our first pick this year and next and a player in our top 12-24 range ie: Tyson, Salem, Watts if thats what it takes to land both Lever and Gaff. Time for us to take a swing to set ourselves for a period of sustained challenging for the flag.

[Redleg 40,912]

2 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Richmond and Adelaide also proved that possibly the most important role is a quality intercept spoiler. The amount of pressure dumped kicks forward in both games that Lever and Rance controlled was massive. The other obvious difference in the game from both sides was the defensive running of the victorious mids in both cases. I would give up our first pick this year and next and a player in our top 12-24 range ie: Tyson, Salem, Watts if thats what it takes to land both Lever and Gaff. Time for us to take a swing to set ourselves for a period of sustained challenging for the flag.

Don't discount the manic pressure of the Tigers yesterday, that we also showed in the first 15 or so rounds of the season.

They have had no injuries and no disrupted season unlike us, who lurched from mini crisis to mini crisis.

Remember the score when we played them earlier in the year at 3/4 time, we were 5 goals ahead and Tim Smith and Jake Spencer our star key forward and key ruckman were both off the ground by quarter time. Yes they ran over us in the last quarter, but without those two stars going off early we would have beaten them. We also had a similar story against the Cats and thrashed the Crows and Port and beat WC in Perth.

What am I getting at, well we are not a bad side but we were cruelled with injuries and suspensions to our better players.

I agree we would be better with Lever and Gaff, but I think we have another problem.

We have lost form in the last third of every season under Misson, is their a correlation to his portfolio and our poor form late in the year?

BTW I am not blaming him for that first quarter against the Pies, but we have got players back and still played badly late in the season. Why?

[mo64 5,874]

3 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Don't discount the manic pressure of the Tigers yesterday, that we also showed in the first 15 or so rounds of the season.

They have had no injuries and no disrupted season unlike us, who lurched from mini crisis to mini crisis.

Remember the score when we played them earlier in the year at 3/4 time, we were 5 goals ahead and Tim Smith and Jake Spencer our star key forward and key ruckman were both off the ground by quarter time. Yes they ran over us in the last quarter, but without those two stars going off early we would have beaten them. We also had a similar story against the Cats and thrashed the Crows and Port and beat WC in Perth.

What am I getting at, well we are not a bad side but we were cruelled with injuries and suspensions to our better players.

I agree we would be better with Lever and Gaff, but I think we have another problem.

We have lost form in the last third of every season under Misson, is their a correlation to his portfolio and our poor form late in the year?

BTW I am not blaming him for that first quarter against the Pies, but we have got players back and still played badly late in the season. Why?

C'mon Redleg, Tim Smith a star key forward and Jake Spencer a key ruckman? Really? There is no such thing as "would have beaten them" if things were different in a game.

Injuries and suspensions are an excuse. Your final 2 points are the real issues.

[Redleg 40,912]

Just now, mo64 said:

C'mon Redleg, Tim Smith a star key forward and Jake Spencer a key ruckman? Really? There is no such thing as "would have beaten them" if things were different in a game.

Injuries and suspensions are an excuse. Your final 2 points are the real issues.

Sarcasm meter not working mo?

I was joking, showing how even with a sh-t side we were 5 goals up on the Tigers and two players were off early, our replacement ruck and replacement forward. We only lost to them because we ran out of legs as you would expect.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,175]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Don't discount the manic pressure of the Tigers yesterday, that we also showed in the first 15 or so rounds of the season.

They have had no injuries and no disrupted season unlike us, who lurched from mini crisis to mini crisis.

Remember the score when we played them earlier in the year at 3/4 time, we were 5 goals ahead and Tim Smith and Jake Spencer our star key forward and key ruckman were both off the ground by quarter time. Yes they ran over us in the last quarter, but without those two stars going off early we would have beaten them. We also had a similar story against the Cats and thrashed the Crows and Port and beat WC in Perth.

What am I getting at, well we are not a bad side but we were cruelled with injuries and suspensions to our better players.

I agree we would be better with Lever and Gaff, but I think we have another problem.

We have lost form in the last third of every season under Misson, is their a correlation to his portfolio and our poor form late in the year?

BTW I am not blaming him for that first quarter against the Pies, but we have got players back and still played badly late in the season. Why?

Injuries cruelled us and forced us to players out of position exposing youngsters to more weekly impact and pressure than was expected. This is one of the key reasons I feel we tired and players such as Trac, Hunt, O-Mac lost their consistent impact. Aside from this the first year of our manic style was always going to sap the players at some point. 

I thought Richmond were bog ordinary last night aside from Dusty getting off the chain and playing three levels above all others. Its just Geelong were even worse and really the last quarter was not finals footy but a front running side having a party against a poor side with the cue in the rack. Its the reason I think we are actually not far off and need to capitalise by going all out in the off season to land the missing pieces, particularly ones with 5-8 years of their best footy ahead. 

Edited September 9, 2017 by big_red_fire_engine

[Wells 11 5,400]

4 hours ago, rjay said:

...and Geelong's gems are.

You still need top end talent coming through 'Wells'...your namesake at the cats hasn't had the luxury and their list is looking unbalanced. They've staved off the inevitable rebuild but it is coming and by the look of last nights game, very soon.

Not saying we don't take the punt now, with our young talent I think we have to it's just there is a downside. 'Akum' is right to pint it out.

If we pursue top end talent then we must win a flag with this group or it's going to be a very long way off.

Its true that there is a real case for each option rjay. Its def not clear cut is it. Its just my instinct is that we go for talent NOW....and roll the dice on the risks. Id rather that risk than stay in the middle  , keep getting good draft pics,  and run the risk of losing stars wanting premiership action.  Theres no risk free way to the top...and, as the saying goes, fortune has a way of favouring the brave, 

[rjay 24,921]

2 hours ago, Wells 11 said:

Its true that there is a real case for each option rjay. Its def not clear cut is it. Its just my instinct is that we go for talent NOW....and roll the dice on the risks. Id rather that risk than stay in the middle  , keep getting good draft pics,  and run the risk of losing stars wanting premiership action.  Theres no risk free way to the top...and, as the saying goes, fortune has a way of favouring the brave, 

Agree 'Wells', it's time to pull the trigger and have a red hot go at it.

The top end talent is on the list and with some targeted additions we can make a run at it.

Otherwise as you say we risk losing that top end talent.

[Dee1987 277]

Gaff playing quiet well tonight, let's get him to the dees

[deelete my account 1,194]

6 hours ago, rjay said:

Agree 'Wells', it's time to pull the trigger and have a red hot go at it.

The top end talent is on the list and with some targeted additions we can make a run at it.

Otherwise as you say we risk losing that top end talent.

It could be a snowball effect too. Get a player that realistically brings us to 5-8th, then another player will nominate us and that will get us to 3-4, and by that time our currently young elite talent will be 2-3 years older and ready to have a sustained period of peak output while for 2-3 years we've unearthed a few new best 22 in the draft and some of our developing vfl players will be afl ready. Our current depth or bottom 6 will have been delisted by then.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Wrecked Owl Dees Function

[spirit of norm smith 16,450]

Gaff is the wingman we need. Not an inside mid. He runs runs runs and runs. Good delivery. 

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,083]

No thanks. Very crucial errors late in the 4th although he would fit it

[deelete my account 1,194]

4 minutes ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

No thanks. Very crucial errors late in the 4th although he would fit it

Are we basing his recruitment on the last 30 minutes and the next 5 minutes? Cmon Gaff, set up a few goals and the come back win! 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Wrecked Owl Dees Function

[deelete my account 1,194]

Can we recruit Luke Shuey instead? 

[whatwhat say what 22,749]

1 hour ago, Wrecked Owl Dees Function said:

Can we recruit Luke Shuey instead? 

shuey just signed a new four year deal so we're next to no shot

if the rumours are true and gaff is available...then we gotta get him

pick 10 - lever
2018 1st rounder + kent - gaff
4th round 2017 - harley balic

and the latter is basically adding a homesick player who showed that at underage level he can get a fair bit of the football (although i don't trust his disposal skills) - wouldn't even think he'd be in our best 25 tbh

B: Jetta - Frost - Lever
HB: Hunt - O Mac - Hibberd
C: Gaff - Jones - Lewis
HF: Petracca - T Mac - Melksham
F: Watts - Hogan - Garlett
Foll: Gawn - Oliver - Viney
I/C: Salem - Tyson - Hannan - Vince
Emerg: Brayshaw - Pedersen - Maynard

i am still uncertain as to whether we can play t mac, watts, hogan and pedo in the same forward line, but i definitely want t mac forward of the ball in 2018 - we looked better for mine for his presence forward

watts best form was as a floating forward relieving ruck - he has to get his fitness right to play that role

i have faith that frost can command a spot in the back 7 (where a rotation of lewis, salem, and vince / brayshaw can play that 'floating' defender to accompany the other six)

sigh...gaff and lever really help our side

fingers crossed.........

[Demonstone 22,511]

Anyone else sick to death of that stupid [censored] "Why don't we have both" meme?

[JTR 2,846]

.

Edited September 9, 2017 by JTR
Nvm

[Demon Disciple 12,122]

On 08/09/2017 at 5:30 PM, Akum said:

The risk is that we carry forward a three-year "hole" in our age profile, so that if in 5-7 years we're near the top but without a flag, we have an old list (like Norf's now) that would need a major overhaul again.

Trading 2 unknowns for 2 known, and both are needs for the club. It's a no brainer for me.

we've been to the draft and got our young kids coming through, so list wise, we are still young with a fair bit of natural development left in us. I'm tired of continually going to the draft, there comes a time when you back in your core group and go all in for a tilt at making a deep run.

now is as good as time as any for us to do so. Bring in Lever (who is still very young) and Gaff (a quality ball user, all be it a wee bit soft) and we improve our list significantly.

if all it takes is some early picks and some player's we can afford to dispense, then we'd be stupid not to do it.

time to stop recruiting for tomorrow and play for the now.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,175]

I watched last night and I would love to see evidence Gaff is soft. Goes when it's his turn and would be in the top 5 gut runners in the league. Most players can go the hard ball not many have the mental or physical capacity to gut run like he does. Also makes quick  decisions and executes cleanly. Anyone that doesnt think he is worth a first rounder and a reasonable player overvalues picks.