51 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

no 

Bugga

16 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Screw north. It’s pick 31 OR 33 and throw in pick 68 if they are getting annoyed. They are kicking Brown out !!!

 

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

agree that it's not a lay down misere

but....it's still a possibility and represents a big risk for north 

from north's point they still get nothing whether he goes to dees or someone else

Exactly daisy. We must keep maximum pressure on North. Nothing is nothing and it will hold up their trading big time

In fact maybe we should low ball them see what Cohunas they have

 

1 hour ago, TRIGON said:

Under that scenario the trade picks then look like;

Melbourne: 26, 43, 50, 68, 69, 89 

North: 2, 11, 28, 31, 33, 41, 70, 71, 81 

North's currency (as highlighted) means that they have the flexibility to create a pick swap package that the Dogs (the holder's of pick 14) could find very attractive. For North, 3 picks in the top 15 -  a great start to a rebuild.

 

22 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I continue to be bewildered by the love of draft picks. There’s a greater than 50% chance the draft picks in the region we’re talking about will yield a player who plays 0 games. There’s about a 90% chance they’ll contribute little to nothing in the short term. Brown clearly helps us immediately and in the medium term. 

If Mahoney missed Brown because he wouldn’t cough up two picks in the 25-35 range I’d be furious. Sure I hope one pick gets it done, but I still think it’s cheap.

It wouldn't surprise me if there is a 3 party brinkmanship game going on. For example:

Melb wants to trade with the dogs, points for 14. They have entertained this but Kangas have offered a better deal points wise. Unfortunately, the kangs deal is dependent on the Brown deal with us. So we want to deal with Dogs first, then North. Dogs want us to deal with North first, so they can trade with North. We are holding firm and refusing the higher picks to North right now.

If that's correct we have the upper hand, because Dogs lose all if we don't buckle and both deals fall through. But this does require us to hold firm until the Dogs buckle first or the Kanga's buckle to us first (desperate to get something for Brown).

We may blink first and make the swap, but that will only be if a) we find another trade with the other picks that we think is better then no deal with the Dogs, so cut and run reducing overall risk (ie lesser outcome but no risk of no deal) or b) if we believe that this holdup is preventing us making other trades e.g. due to salary cap uncertainty, other picks or players, or other trades that need the Dogs or North to come to the party etc.

Edited November 11, 20204 yr by deanox

4 minutes ago, deanox said:

 

It wouldn't surprise me if there is a 3 party brinkmanship game going on. For example:

Melb wants to trade with the dogs, points for 14. They have entertained this but Kangas have offered a better deal points wise. Unfortunately, the kangs deal is dependent on the Brown deal with us. So we want to deal with Dogs first, then North. Dogs want us to deal with North first, so they can trade with North. We are holding firm and refusing the higher picks to North right now.

If that's correct we have the upper hand, because Dogs lose all if we don't buckle and both deals fall through. But this does require us to hold firm until the Dogs buckle first or the Kanga's buckle to us first (desperate to get something for Brown).

We may blink first and make the swap, but that will only be if a) we find another trade with the other picks that we think is better then no deal with the Dogs, so cut and run reducing overall risk (ie lesser outcome but no risk of no deal) or b) if we believe that this holdup is preventing us making other trades e.g. due to salary cap uncertainty, other picks or players, or other trades that need the Dogs or North to come to the party etc.

Points /picks trade and swap continues until draft night.  Players are the urgency here.  I think if Norf wanted the bullies pick they could move grandpa Higgins and use that

Trade week is just a giant d!*k swinging contest that only further shines the light on egotistical media and manager types that live in a constant state of over exposure and self adulation.

I hate it. 

the trade period should be 2 days. stuff all this week long stuff. The managers and recruiters chat all year and outside of hours anyway. a whether the trade week is 1 week, 3 weeks or 2 days it always comes down to the last day or 2 anyway.

45 minutes ago, hardtack said:

 

9 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

the trade period should be 2 days. stuff all this week long stuff. The managers and recruiters chat all year and outside of hours anyway. a whether the trade week is 1 week, 3 weeks or 2 days it always comes down to the last day or 2 anyway.

Uncontracted players should be some form of free agent. We have bonkers rules that say a player without a deal is somehow traded. It makes no sense. Free agency should start and the race would be on to sign players as quick as possible.
 

Contracted players should be traded at any time until the start of the season, but with deadlines before the draft, before Christmas and before the last preseason game.

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

I continue to be bewildered by the love of draft picks. There’s a greater than 50% chance the draft picks in the region we’re talking about will yield a player who plays 0 games. There’s about a 90% chance they’ll contribute little to nothing in the short term. Brown clearly helps us immediately and in the medium term. 

If Mahoney missed Brown because he wouldn’t cough up two picks in the 25-35 range I’d be furious. Sure I hope one pick gets it done, but I still think it’s cheap.

The other side of this argument is the uncertainty that Brown will be able to get back to his best and our midfield can deliver the football to him.  He isn't a contested big body Forward, he is a tall hit up forward that his performance will hinge on how we kick the ball to him.  If we continue kicking the ball like we do having Brown will be a massive fail.  Also I'm on the side of if he has the potential to return to anywhere near his best form why are North kicking him out of the club to bring in an 18 yo that most likely hasn't played in 2020 at pick 30 ish.

I also don't think he and Weiderman can work in the same forward line, both need to play as our deepest forward neither are a CHF.

1 minute ago, drdrake said:

I also don't think he and Weiderman can work in the same forward line, both need to play as our deepest forward neither are a CHF.

@drdrake, what's your logic behind Weideman not being able to play CHF?

2 minutes ago, drdrake said:

I also don't think he and Weiderman can work in the same forward line, both need to play as our deepest forward neither are a CHF.

weed's best game for us - geelong elimination final in 2018 - he basically played as a chf, roaming everywhere and doing some (minimal) relief ruck work

 

6 minutes ago, drdrake said:

The other side of this argument is the uncertainty that Brown will be able to get back to his best and our midfield can deliver the football to him.  He isn't a contested big body Forward, he is a tall hit up forward that his performance will hinge on how we kick the ball to him.  If we continue kicking the ball like we do having Brown will be a massive fail.  Also I'm on the side of if he has the potential to return to anywhere near his best form why are North kicking him out of the club to bring in an 18 yo that most likely hasn't played in 2020 at pick 30 ish.

I also don't think he and Weiderman can work in the same forward line, both need to play as our deepest forward neither are a CHF.

Weideman can easily play in a pocket. gone are the days where there is a traditional chf and ff. its rolling bloody scrum anyway.

Edited November 11, 20204 yr by Dr.D

4 minutes ago, drdrake said:

He isn't a contested big body Forward, he is a tall hit up forward that his performance will hinge on how we kick the ball to him.  If we continue kicking the ball like we do having Brown will be a massive fail. 

This is a myth and was disproven a few pages back with lots of footage and stats. 
Ben Brown took more contested marks than Jeremy Cameron in 2017...and 2018...and 2019... is Jeremy Cameron a lead up only forward? If so, why is he worth more than two first round picks? 

Brown will be a steal and is possibly one of the best suited players to us in the whole league. I'm still pinching myself we'll land him.  He'd be our most productive forward since peak Neitz. Even if he goes at half his peak output, he'd still be our leading goal kicker. He's that good!

5 hours ago, ben russell said:

Right, so it sounds as though we’re comfortable with pick 31 and 33 for Brown but the Roos want our pick 26 which we are keen to hold on to.
 

Hopefully 31 and 33 get it done. If we end up giving pick 26 then you would really hope that the other pick is later on in the draft. Say, 26 and 43. Hopefully we don’t cave and give up 26 plus one of 31 or 33.

 

26 and  a future 3rd

Just need to get him and then work out where he plays and what Weeds will do. Still a massive fan of Weeds and next year will see him flower and set  the seed for the next 5- 10 years.

26 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

@drdrake, what's your logic behind Weideman not being able to play CHF?

IMO he is better deeper and gets lost high up the ground.  You can see the way they played him this year he was our deepest forward, our other tall played in front of him, that is why Preuss and him up forward didn't work in 2020.

 

20 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

This is a myth and was disproven a few pages back with lots of footage and stats. 
Ben Brown took more contested marks than Jeremy Cameron in 2017...and 2018...and 2019... is Jeremy Cameron a lead up only forward? If so, why is he worth more than two first round picks? 

Brown will be a steal and is possibly one of the best suited players to us in the whole league. I'm still pinching myself we'll land him.  He'd be our most productive forward since peak Neitz. Even if he goes at half his peak output, he'd still be our leading goal kicker. He's that good!

Yep, I will dare to say that would be jumping over someone rather than body on body contested.  Let's re-visit this in 12 months, I think he will be a flop, I'm hopeful that I'm wrong but the way he is leaving North has me extremely concerned.

c'mon hurry tf up.......

Brown to Dees

Stephenson and MFC pick 68 to Kangas

Pick 31 to Pies 

thoughts? 

36 minutes ago, drdrake said:

He isn't a contested big body Forward, he is a tall hit up forward that his performance will hinge on how we kick the ball to him.  If we continue kicking the ball like we do having Brown will be a massive fail.  Also I'm on the side of if he has the potential to return to anywhere near his best form why are North kicking him out of the club to bring in an 18 yo that most likely hasn't played in 2020 at pick 30 ish.

Of his 65 goals in 2019 two thirds, i.e. over 40, were not from hit-up leads. They came from either contested marks, frees, tackles, separation, or snaps from general play.

9 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Brown to Dees

Stephenson and MFC pick 68 to Kangas

Pick 31 to Pies 

thoughts? 

bargain for us, good get for north, hurts the filth

it's a win for mine!

17 minutes ago, drdrake said:

IMO he is better deeper and gets lost high up the ground.  You can see the way they played him this year he was our deepest forward, our other tall played in front of him, that is why Preuss and him up forward didn't work in 2020.

Thanks. I see it differently, that he's better when he can get some space further up the ground and that he's also quite good below his knees - which I think is a great trait in a CHF. Re your comment about him getting lost up the ground, next year - when we can watch from the stands, will watch with interest to see if you're right.

Higgins just went to Geelong for pick 30, so Norf should be accepting 31 or 33 for Brown.

On 11/1/2020 at 7:15 PM, Chook in Perth said:

Watched those videos. 60 goals a year....30 of them from staging for frees. Contested marks? Lots of double grabs.

5 years a big investment to simply straighten us up. Underwhelmed

Wow. 
 

maybe support someone else pls 

25 minutes ago, drdrake said:

IMO he is better deeper and gets lost high up the ground.  You can see the way they played him this year he was our deepest forward, our other tall played in front of him, that is why Preuss and him up forward didn't work in 2020.

I think that was purely structural, as soon as he came into the team we played a lot better because we didn't have forwards running around everywhere, he held his position and gave us something to kick too. Brown will replace him in that role, although I have seen stats to show that Brown does cover a hell of a lot of ground (he was one of the highest for key forwards), so he's moving all the time in a small area. I too think Weid's best games have come when he's been moving up the ground, the Geelong final, his game against Adelaide a few years back, but this year he kicked more goals staying forward. I can actually see him moving up the ground a lot more but still kicking a fair few goals from the goal square, he's smart enough so that if his player starts to chase the ball he'll stay back, some will call it getting a cheapy but it's smart play.

1 minute ago, Nudge said:

Wow. 
 

maybe support someone else pls 

Whoah back @Nudge, @Chook in Perth is Demonland royalty.