On 06/11/2020 at 01:20, Demon Forever said:

Why would you prefer that as an option instead of this years diluted 2nd rounder? Doesn’t make any sense

Give away next years pick is to pickup the benefit of Brown now but delay the cost. Next year we will do better and push to the top 6. Back yourself in. 
 

I’m not giving up our 2nd round this year. We can leverage it to negotiate and go higher in the order. 

  On 06/11/2020 at 12:29, spirit of norm smith said:

Give away next years pick is to pickup the benefit of Brown now but delay the cost. Next year we will do better and push to the top 6. Back yourself in. 
 

I’m not giving up our 2nd round this year. We can leverage it to negotiate and go higher in the order. 

Or give them this years second rounder which is diluted, Reap the rewards now and pick someone in a better, less compromised draft next year. That’s what I would be doing. Buy giving them this years second rounder, they are effectively getting the 34th best pick. If we win a premiership next year fingers ? then that pick would be pick 38 anyway. That’s the worst case scenario, except for winning a premiership

  On 06/11/2020 at 07:45, nosoupforme said:

I don't think he is in our best 22 at the minute and i wasn't about to put him on a pedestal and I don't think his 2 snaps he kicked goals were flukes either although that being his best game  against GWS he played for us.

14 and 15 disposals in his last 2 games against GWS with 2 goals and Essendon.. Held his own.  

He has still a way to go but he has a kick start from the last 3 games   and the way he played them. I watch with interest.

Spot on. Looked a player and performed better than about 10 others that may, in many eyes on this forum be better players than him. I think he has a future with us and on the wing/midfield.

These days, no-one expects a wingman to be the hard man of footy, but having watched Baker closely my two main issues are that he's incredibly soft and has virtually zero hurt factor with his possessions (yes yes he kicked two goals).

Jimmy Toumpas was probably the softest outside player I've seen at Melbourne.  Baker is in that category.  Toumpas notoriously had shocking contested possession numbers in junior footy, which should have been a red flag, but even Jimmy's percentage of CP at AFL level just shades Baker's.  Tom Scully is as outside as you get and his percentage is almost double.  This isn't reliant on total possessions, but percentage of, which is an important distinction.

Put simply, Baker isn't list worthy.

If we don't go all out to solve our (opposite) wing issues I'll be dismayed.  And I'll know there's zero chance of a flag in 2021.

Talk about a wing and a prayer...

EDIT: I hasten to add that my views on Baker first came from visuals, the good old-fashioned eye test.  The stats came about because I was curious to see if what I was seeing was borne out.

Edited November 6, 20204 yr by Hannibal Inc.

  On 06/11/2020 at 21:33, Hannibal Inc. said:

These days, no-one expects a wingman to be the hard man of footy, but having watched Baker closely my two main issues are that he's incredibly soft and has virtually zero hurt factor with his possessions (yes yes he kicked two goals).

Jimmy Toumpas was probably the softest outside player I've seen at Melbourne.  Baker is in that category.  Toumpas notoriously had shocking contested possession numbers in junior footy, which should have been a red flag, but even Jimmy's percentage of CP at AFL level just shades Baker's.  Tom Scully is as outside as you get and his percentage is almost double.  This isn't reliant on total possessions, but percentage of, which is an important distinction.

Put simply, Baker isn't list worthy.

If we don't go all out to solve our (opposite) wing issues I'll be dismayed.  And I'll know there's zero chance of a flag in 2021.

Talk about a wing and a prayer...

I think Baker is better than you give him credit for, but I agree we can’t rely on him making it.

I would be picking up 3 or 4 outside running types through a mix of trade, draft and delisted free agents to balance our list out a bit.

For example, I would be happy to see us bring in Tom Phillips, Quinton Narkle, Marley Williams and young Macrae in the draft.

Not saying someone like Marley Williams is a world beater but he is a point of difference on our list to plug and play to add some speed and run.

Edited November 6, 20204 yr by Forest Demon

  On 06/11/2020 at 21:39, Forest Demon said:

I think Baker is better than you give him credit for, but I agree we can’t rely on him making it.

I would be picking up 3 or 4 outside running types through a mix of trade, draft and delisted free agents to balance our list out a bit.

For example, I would be happy to see us bring in Tom Phillips, Quinton Narkle, Marley Williams and young Macrae in the draft.

Not saying someone like Marley Williams is a world beater but he is a point of difference on our list to plug and play to add some speed and run.

Very sensible plan Forest the way MFC goes about developing players like OB leaves a lot to be desired

Log in to read updates on Ben Brown and all I’m getting is Oskar Baker chat. Out of interest, what’s the relevance?

  On 06/11/2020 at 07:45, nosoupforme said:

I don't think he is in our best 22 at the minute and i wasn't about to put him on a pedestal and I don't think his 2 snaps he kicked goals were flukes either although that being his best game  against GWS he played for us.

14 and 15 disposals in his last 2 games against GWS with 2 goals and Essendon.. Held his own.  

He has still a way to go but he has a kick start from the last 3 games   and the way he played them. I watch with interest.

With his limited game time experience, and being rather raw at that level, he cannot be expected to display 'seasoned' football. This is a case, I feel, where talents have been seen, albeit briefly, but do appear to be ready for that good old myth that we can develop players in a role - and do so rather well. With what he has shown, I agree that the ingredients are there; it is now time for the FD to get him up to a standard of reliability and application. Yze will be an asset for this achievement to occur.

  On 06/11/2020 at 21:54, Radar Detector said:

Log in to read updates on Ben Brown and all I’m getting is Oskar Baker chat. Out of interest, what’s the relevance?

Just about as significant as chat complaints. People raise a point, can relate it to the topic, express it and stimulate others to similarly comment on their thoughts. One-dimensional thought can be boring, RD. 

Surely recruiting a specialised winger such as Isaac Smith or Tom Phillips isn’t worth 4 extra wins to get us into next years second qualifying final.

I would’ve thought the elimination of picking and choosing which games (see the Cairns and Port Adelaide disasters) to turn up to and picking and choosing which quarters to go to sleep in (see the early season MCG games and the Dogs game) are our main obstacles of finishing top 4 or even the top 8.

A platoon of Baker, Tomlinson, Hunt and VDB playing the “non Langdon”  wing is far from ideal but it’s only 1 position out of 18 on the field and shouldn’t cost us the destination we want to get to next year. I.e playing in at least week 2 or 3 of the finals.

 

  On 06/11/2020 at 21:33, Hannibal Inc. said:

These days, no-one expects a wingman to be the hard man of footy, but having watched Baker closely my two main issues are that he's incredibly soft and has virtually zero hurt factor with his possessions (yes yes he kicked two goals).

Jimmy Toumpas was probably the softest outside player I've seen at Melbourne.  Baker is in that category.  Toumpas notoriously had shocking contested possession numbers in junior footy, which should have been a red flag, but even Jimmy's percentage of CP at AFL level just shades Baker's.  Tom Scully is as outside as you get and his percentage is almost double.  This isn't reliant on total possessions, but percentage of, which is an important distinction.

Put simply, Baker isn't list worthy.

If we don't go all out to solve our (opposite) wing issues I'll be dismayed.  And I'll know there's zero chance of a flag in 2021.

Talk about a wing and a prayer...

EDIT: I hasten to add that my views on Baker first came from visuals, the good old-fashioned eye test.  The stats came about because I was curious to see if what I was seeing was borne out.

What a load of BS, watched his reply against Dons, did not see any evidence or softness, went in hard with all of his takles, earnt a free going going for  mark  backing back with 2 Essendon players around him and behind him. Was composed with most of his positions.

  On 07/11/2020 at 03:49, don't make me angry said:

What a load of BS, watched his reply against Dons, did not see any evidence or softness, went in hard with all of his takles, earnt a free going going for  mark  backing back with 2 Essendon players around him and behind him. Was composed with most of his positions.

How the hell don't I have you on ignore ?

Fixed.

 

Agree.  Ben Brown for pick 33 is about right. Kangas are pushing him out. Mid-range 2nd round pick is par. 

Pick 33 for Brown would be the steal of the century!

A 3 year deal and for pick 33 would be a nice piece of business indeed 

  On 10/11/2020 at 01:27, DubDee said:

Pick 33 for Brown would be the steal of the century!

Given the circumstances I think its actually about right.

If we're talking about Baker Im afraid i do not agree with some posters here. I saw bits of an early year or so of DeGoey. Not sure of his pace somewhat but don't forget we just got rid of coaches that have not been developing players under them. Give this boy a year or so  and lets see what happens. I know of some good people/new coaches that bring their sides from bottom to flags and i know the elation and the down sides.

  On 07/11/2020 at 00:52, Bring-Back-Powell said:

A platoon of Baker, Tomlinson, Hunt and VDB playing the “non Langdon”  wing is far from ideal but it’s only 1 position out of 18 on the field and shouldn’t cost us the destination we want to get to next year. I.e playing in at least week 2 or 3 of the finals.

I like the concept, keeping players by the bunch in game-form. The real advantage is that these players you have mentioned, BBP, have considerable talents - and each talent almost exclusive to that player - providing a depth of application given the team and the conditions of the day against which we must prevail. Makes for a super strong bench, old-fashioned player versatility at its best, but with (at present) a non-creative and limited problem-solving Coach, I'm afraid.

 

 

I think it will take two picks out of 26, 33, 43 and 50 to land Brown.

Unlikely to be 26 and 33. Won’t be 43 and 50. So likely something in between. 33 and 50 would be nice.
 

  On 10/11/2020 at 01:48, ben russell said:

I think it will take two picks out of 26, 33, 43 and 50 to land Brown.

Unlikely to be 26 and 33. Won’t be 43 and 50. So likely something in between. 33 and 50 would be nice.
 

That depends. If our intention is to trade with the Dog's for their 1st round pick then trading pick 26 to North for Brown means that we have more currency to trade to the Dogs. Pick 26 = 729 Points, Pick 33 + 50 = 836 Points.

If we're not trading up (or can't) then I'd be inclined to go with the option you mentioned; it gives Jason Taylor more opportunity to draft quality (instead of quantity).

  On 10/11/2020 at 01:48, ben russell said:

I think it will take two picks out of 26, 33, 43 and 50 to land Brown.

Unlikely to be 26 and 33. Won’t be 43 and 50. So likely something in between. 33 and 50 would be nice.
 

I suspect the other 2 picks will be bundled up and offered to the dogs for their first rounder as well. 

so potentially 26 and 43 

  On 10/11/2020 at 02:37, Patches O’houlihan said:

I suspect the other 2 picks will be bundled up and offered to the dogs for their first rounder as well. 

so potentially 26 and 43 

Maybe the Hannan price was offset to support such a swap?  We took a future 3rd rounder, not touching this year’s picks of the dogs for their NGA play.

  On 10/11/2020 at 02:31, TRIGON said:

That depends. If our intention is to trade with the Dog's for their 1st round pick then trading pick 26 to North for Brown means that we have more currency to trade to the Dogs. Pick 26 = 729 Points, Pick 33 + 50 = 836 Points.

If we're not trading up (or can't) then I'd be inclined to go with the option you mentioned; it gives Jason Taylor more opportunity to draft quality (instead of quantity).

Pick 50 = 273, so pick 26 (729) + 273= 1002

  On 10/11/2020 at 02:46, cantstandyasam said:

Pick 50 = 273, so pick 26 (729) + 273= 1002

The above equation is correct,  what I'm suggesting is:

• Looking to trade for Dog's 1st round pick, send Pick 26 to North (keep picks 33+50 to trade with Dogs)
• Not looking to trade up in the draft then send Picks 33+50 to North and keep Pick 26 (draft for quality, not quantity).