List Structure: What do we actually need?

[Biffen 12,940]

On 30/06/2017 at 1:25 PM, DV8 said:

poisson to the list.

a quick nimble jockey type?  Higgins?

Sam Hayes?

Stephenson.

 

Sounds fishy .

[Demons1858 1,760]

3 hours ago, jacey said:

If he consistently did that, he wouldn't be available. 

You pick up these players at discounted price and back your footy department. 

Impey from port is another I like. 

If Motlop wasn't coming out if an elite program at Geelong then I would probably agree with you

[Freak 100]

seriously whats the point of the thread if people are going to dish up 'trust the footy department' comments. 

anyway, if we are to get someone decent we would have to give up someone also.

irrespective of who has signed and who is coming out of contract, players who i think are tradeable are: watts (games like the weekend are the reason i would be ok with him leaving), anb (although i do like his intensity) and tyson (he can accumulate but he is a bit slow to make decisions and gets caught holding the ball a lot). So the above 3 players all carry value.

[What 18,810]

A backup ruckman should be #1 priority on the trade list.  Preferably one that can play forward too.   

Aside from that there are no obvious holes on the list, but more midfield depth/talent is always important (especially with Lewis, Jones, Vince not getting any younger) and we must continue to build through there.

 

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Watts and Tyson obviously have trade value, but are now integral to our team. Both just came back from injury and will be peaking around finals time. Using their game vs Port as reason to trade is ludicrous. 

We have draft picks which we can trade. Apart from that, and unless anyone specifically asks to be traded (maybe Kent or Spencil), I hope our current 22 stays on our list.

Another A grade mid would be very handy in 2018. Can never have enough quality in the midfield

[Ungarie boy 233]

23 hours ago, Freak said:

It seems that the days are gone that we will have top 5 picks so we may need to draft a bit more for needs than ever before. With that in mind, what sort of player do you think we need? 

For me:

1. Key position defender: Too much reliance on both mcdonald brothers and Frost and all do scare me deep in defence with their foot skills and decision making. a key defender with above average foot skills would be high on the pecking order. Basically Jake Lever.

 

2. Small forward: Garlett won't be around forever but a genuine speedster with goal sense would be worth targeting. I don't think JKH or Dion johnstone are in that level. 

3. Quick midfielder: Oliver, Viney, Lewis, Tyson, Jones, Brayshaw, Petracca arent overly quick. Oliver and Petracca are the most explosive of this bunch over shorter distances but not neccessarily over 50metres. Hunt, Garlett and Frost show the value of speed and another quick mid would be a priority instead of a slower inside mid types that Jason Taylor loves. 

Pretty much nailed it.

Our obvious first target is the tall defender, for should injury or even drop in form happens to Omac or Frost - the flow-on effects becomes quite disastrous (no capable direct replacement, or rejigging the team to allow Tmac to move back equating to a gap in the forward/ruck role; okay maybe Pederson could help out here.  Now think what would happen if there was an injury and drop in form to these 2 players.  Also a tall back would effectively be taking an unlucky Garland spot in the squad (is he out of contract).  Failing a tall back a medium who plays tall would be useful.

Need to look at where the decline is likely to start occur and it's impact on the teame; with the obvious candidates being  (Lewis, Vince, Jones, Pederson and possibly Watts).  The impact here is two fold 1) leadership 2) kicking.  Leadership seems to be well covered by the next generation.  Another excellent to elite kick would be very useful (think of the improvement to the side Hibberd has made).  

I like the idea of Lever, and drafting for speed.  I also wonder if there it is worth trialling Frost on the wing, where he could use his speed to get over the back or his height to create a mismatch in a marking contest.  It would also allow Gawn to sneak back and forward sometimes knowing there is a rucking option that can take the contest.

Would love Z Jones as well, Vince and Lewis also brings some mongrel to the teams which all tops sides (Dynasty's) need. 

 

[Satyriconhome 10,737]

4 hours ago, Freak said:

seriously whats the point of the thread if people are going to dish up 'trust the footy department' comments. 

anyway, if we are to get someone decent we would have to give up someone also.

irrespective of who has signed and who is coming out of contract, players who i think are tradeable are: watts (games like the weekend are the reason i would be ok with him leaving), anb (although i do like his intensity) and tyson (he can accumulate but he is a bit slow to make decisions and gets caught holding the ball a lot). So the above 3 players all carry value.

You are asking about the point of a topic on Demonland, seriously

You sound like Joeboy on Tyson, we seriously missed him when he was out, straight back into the team, he accumulates coz he gets to every contest he can, yes he butchers it sometimes, but he gets under the radar, when Viney tired on Saturday, he did the heavy lifting

And Watts, please, he played his role, we had Tommy Mc and Hogan in one on one contests coz Watts made sure he kept his opponent occupied

And as for ANB, you have been watching the games? he is getting better every game he plays

Unless an elite player becomes available I doubt we will trade

You forget the key defender that we have as a goal kicking forward at the moment, who can do that

 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Satyriconhome
Shizen phone

[ManDee 7,127]

3 hours ago, Freak said:

seriously whats the point of the thread if people are going to dish up 'trust the footy department' comments. 

anyway, if we are to get someone decent we would have to give up someone also.

irrespective of who has signed and who is coming out of contract, players who i think are tradeable are: watts (games like the weekend are the reason i would be ok with him leaving), anb (although i do like his intensity) and tyson (he can accumulate but he is a bit slow to make decisions and gets caught holding the ball a lot). So the above 3 players all carry value.

So you bag people for posting a comment and not addressing the topic and then you post a comment and don't address the topic.  

On topic, we need to remain focused and further develop the players we have, then pick the best available. No special needs.

[Deespicable 2,726]

Three things will be different to normal.

1) We are now regarded as a threat - so all teams will be tougher (but not stupid) on us, when it comes to deals.

2) We are in the window and don't have a high pick - so we have to be crafty just to get any players immediately worthy of AFL games.

3) Our list is for the first time close to perfect in terms of balance now. We've had the second worst run of key injuries this season behind only GWS and we still are in shape to make the finals.

That said I have four players in mind - of which we'd be lucky to get one and be doing great to get two.

1) A mobile forward/back-up ruckman - this has been mentioned by almost everyone, although the rise of T-Mac as a forward has removed some of the urgency in this type. The club may decide to keep Pedersen (31 next season) again as back-up insurance and Weids is hopefully going to keep developing so there is an argument to say we already have this covered. I certainly wouldn't be making any big plays for Tippett (too old and expensive) or Casboult. To me the ideal pick up is Freo's Matt Taberner, who comes from Bright, and has been dominating WAFL games but after five seasons and 50-odd games is sitting behind Kersten and McCarthy in Ross's mindset. He occasionally comes in and dominates a game like he did against Essendon but then goes missing for a few weeks and gets dropped. He is 198cm and is a cracking mark with a good leap so would be a handy back-up ruck or back-up tall and he's still only 24. The bad wrap on him is that he's a tad slow - the same wrap that applies to both Pedo and Weid mind you, so that shouldn't be a complete deterrent because we are talking back-up tall here. Freo would want a second round pick, but so long as he doesn't have a cracker when recalled this week or next, he should be about a third rounder. 

2) Pace - You could argue we need a Jeffy back-up, but we also need a Jayden back-up. Obviously we'd all like a Danger or even a Hill from Freo, but let's be realistic. The most likely interested player with pace and links to the Dees is Zak Jones. If you've watched him, you'd know he's a linebreaker, but prone to the occasional turnover because he pushes the envelope - like Jayden does. But he's a lovely kick like his big brother and has the same courage. The problem is that his rating has gone through the roof in the past 12 months at Sydney and if we were able to win his interest it will cost (probably about three years at $550K) and it will be a hard battle to avoid giving up our first round pick for him. But I'd do the deal as we all know pace is everything these days.

3) A quality tall defender - If we were to snare Taberner then you could argue that T-Mac's return to defence could give us this player anyway. It is also worth noting that O-Mac is improving at such a rate, that we wouldn't have room for such a player anyway. But if the rumours are correct, then we are into Jake Lever in a big way and there's no doubt he has the quality to play on bigs and mediums and is an intercept marking king via zone defence - something we have lacked since Howey left. My only issue is how we can offer something of value in return for him, especially if our first round pick goes to Sydney for Zak Jones. If I were the Crows, I'd be making a big play to get ANB - Eddie is almost done now and they need a clever small forward. Is there any coincidence that neither Jake or ANB have signed. Clearly ANB does not have Lever's reputation, but those who have watched closely will have spotted just how good ANB has become. Hopefully ANB stays with us and if so, I can't really see how the Crows will deal with us on Lever. My guess is that we will sign ANB in the next few weeks to a 3-year deal and that we will have to draft a project mobile tall defender with a late pick or rookie pick. We also have Col G coming back next year, so we already have a bit of cover in this area.

 4) A classy medium forward/mid - Every side wants this type of player and that's predominantly what the first two rounds of the draft are used for. We missed the boat two years ago when we overlooked Curnow, and De Goey is coming on like a bullet as well, although he's more mid than forward. The reason why we need this player is that eventually (not this season) we have to start using CP5 in the middle - Jones is 30 next season but how many more years of battering can he take. There is one player that the Casey boys will tell you that Bayley Fritsch is a shoo-in to get drafted next season. He's a livewire, high-leaping 187cm forward who is still pretty light - so he has an up side that recruiters look for.  KC from Casey has been in raptures about him all season. But the big issue is whether Mitch Hannan's impressive season has put him out of our league (pick). My suspicion is that, barring a poor VFL finals series, he will go for a second rounder and even that may be a stretch - the Dogs will be keen for payback.

My only other comment on list is that I hope we keep Trenners. It's hard to find quality people and he's certainly good enough to get a game at most clubs and ours and is great role model for our VFL players. I can understand that Bernie and Jordie are preferred to him at moment but next year may be a different thing and they have already shown a propensity to miss games for disciplinary reasons.

Finally, I'd love us to rookie draft a kid from the NT - refer my previous comments elsewhere on this.

 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Deespicable

[samcantstandya 1,045]

6 hours ago, Freak said:

seriously whats the point of the thread if people are going to dish up 'trust the footy department' comments. 

anyway, if we are to get someone decent we would have to give up someone also.

irrespective of who has signed and who is coming out of contract, players who i think are tradeable are: watts (games like the weekend are the reason i would be ok with him leaving), anb (although i do like his intensity) and tyson (he can accumulate but he is a bit slow to make decisions and gets caught holding the ball a lot). So the above 3 players all carry value.

Wouldn't trade any of them even if Tyson is a wasteful kick

[DemonWA 3,932]

Finally think we've got the cattle to contend so I'm happy with the list.

A back-up ruck would be handy and you'd like to think that we would/could have a go for any real quality OOC players or FA's if the price and fit is right for us.

In terms of the draft I'd just be going for the best available.

 

[What 18,810]

As long as we stick with the mantra of bringing competitive beasts into the club we will be ok. (Particularly as Jason Taylor can spot talent a mile away.)

Speaking of that, is there a Paul Roos statue up at the MCG yet?

Edited July 25, 2017 by Petraccattack

[leave it to deever 17,511]

7 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

As long as we stick with the mantra of bringing competitive beasts into the club we will be ok. (Particularly as Jason Taylor can spot talent a mile away.)

Speaking of that, is there a Paul Roos statue up at the MCG yet?

I was wondering o the weekend how many top 5 draft picks out on the ground with Trenners playing. You'd be the type of poster I reckon that would know the answer.

How many does the MFC have at present and is Brayshaw one?

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,680]

13 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I was wondering o the weekend how many top 5 draft picks out on the ground with Trenners playing. You'd be the type of poster I reckon that would know the answer.

How many does the MFC have at present and is Brayshaw one?

Off the top of my head we had:

Watts, Trengove, Oliver, Tyson & Petracca as top 5 draft picks 

[What 18,810]

16 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I was wondering o the weekend how many top 5 draft picks out on the ground with Trenners playing. You'd be the type of poster I reckon that would know the answer.

How many does the MFC have at present and is Brayshaw one?

Off the top of my head, we had five top 5 picks on the weekend -  Watts, Trengove, Tracca, Oliver and Tyson.

Hogan could probably count as one, he would have been top two in a normal draft.  Perhaps VIney too if he wasn't father son.

Not sure what you're asking about Brayshaw, yeah he was pick 3 but obviously didn't play seniors on the weekend.

 

edit - Is Dom is Good already answered, and we both used the exact first 8 words for good measure.  

Edited July 25, 2017 by Petraccattack

[leave it to deever 17,511]

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

Off the top of my head, we had five top 5 picks on the weekend -  Watts, Trengove, Tracca, Oliver and Tyson.

Hogan could probably count as one, he would have been top two in a normal draft.  Perhaps VIney too if he wasn't father son.

Not sure what you're asking about Brayshaw, yeah he was pick 3 but obviously didn't play seniors on the weekend.

 

edit - Is Dom is Good already answered, and we both used the exact first 8 words for good measure.  

Thanks for answering. I counted Brayshaw as I wanted to know how many on our list altogether.

I was looking at the stats against port. There was a reasonable difference in the games played and I think we were about a year younger.

 

[Demons1858 1,760]

21 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

You are asking about the point of a topic on Demonland, seriously

You sound like Joeboy on Tyson, we seriously missed him when he was out, straight back into the team, he accumulates coz he gets to every contest he can, yes he butchers it sometimes, but he gets under the radar, when Viney tired on Saturday, he did the heavy lifting

And Watts, please, he played his role, we had Tommy Mc and Hogan in one on one contests coz Watts made sure he kept his opponent occupied

And as for ANB, you have been watching the games? he is getting better every game he plays

Unless an elite player becomes available I doubt we will trade

You forget the key defender that we have as a goal kicking forward at the moment, who can do that

 

Saty, so who would you trade that's got currency in the market place (can't be old and needs to be in our starting 22) to address a weakness in out list or bolster it with a better player that can perform come finals against the best.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Demons1858

[What 18,810]

22 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

You are asking about the point of a topic on Demonland, seriously

 

 

And some people wonder why you get attacked on here.

You have a real bad habit of insulting the entire forum with gross generalisations like that. And you do it frequently.

Although credit for not using the tired phrase 'Demonland group think' this time, like you usually do.

[whatwhat say what 22,704]

will agree with what everyone sais:

- a ready-made inside-outside mid with pace and skill like a josh kelly, a luke shuey type

- smooth moving outside midfield runner with pace and skill, like andrew gaff or zak jones, who may be more inside-outside but could play purely outside

- tall forward / relief ruck who is also defensively sound and good at ground level, see callum sinclair 

- another zippy small forward who can push up the wings and hit the scoreboard, like another jeffy really

Edited July 25, 2017 by DemonAndrew

[Demons1858 1,760]

Our best chance is to start to attract free agents. Lets do a number on the other clubs as they have done to us. Very good players are prepared to leave teams that are struggling on the expectation of playing finals e.g. Rivers, Frawley

Rumour has it we were into Rockliff last year. Would love Tom Rockliff and even David Zaharakis if all it costs us is $$$. The Goodwin/Hibberd/Melksham/MacCarthy etc etc connection can't be a bad thing for the later. Both players would be an upgrade on players our starting 16-22

 

[old dee 23,782]

We still need a kpf and a kpb.

Particularly a Forward. 

[Satyriconhome 10,737]

5 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

And some people wonder why you get attacked on here.

You have a real bad habit of insulting the entire forum with gross generalisations like that. And you do it frequently.

Although credit for not using the tired phrase 'Demonland group think' this time, like you usually do.

Don't read what I post, I don't read yours anymore, nobody is forcing you,

If you think that is an insult, you need to get out more

A question was asked, I offered an opinion, let me think, publuc forum

I get attacked coz I refuse to follow rhe 'company' line, if I don't think it is the correct line to follow, I actually thought I was being delusionak thinking that, but perhaps not

6 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

Saty, so who would you trade that's got currency in the market place (can't be old and needs to be in our starting 22) to address a weakness in out list or bolster it with a better player that can perform come finals against the best.

I don't think we have a real weakness in our list, most of the 'stars' are locked away and I don't think Goodwin with his team first ethic would pay overs to attract the likes of Kelly, but who knows

[Garbo 1,526]

Would Jasper Pittard be worth picking up, he is a free agent and wouldn't cost much salary wise, and he would certainly add more depth to the list, I wouldn't expect him to play many unless we have injures but would be handy as a just in case type

Edited July 25, 2017 by Garbo

[Demons1858 1,760]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

Don't read what I post, I don't read yours anymore, nobody is forcing you,

If you think that is an insult, you need to get out more

A question was asked, I offered an opinion, let me think, publuc forum

I get attacked coz I refuse to follow rhe 'company' line, if I don't think it is the correct line to follow, I actually thought I was being delusionak thinking that, but perhaps not

I don't think we have a real weakness in our list, most of the 'stars' are locked away and I don't think Goodwin with his team first ethic would pay overs to attract the likes of Kelly, but who knows

Hey Saty, your views on the players aren't balanced which is nice if you follow the company line but is boring on a forum as it doesn't add anything to the debate and is disingenuous

If another Melksham, Hibberd, or Lewis came along that improved out list then Goodwin and you would take them in a heartbeat. Hawthorn had a great list in their premiership years but still added quality to their list so that it was elite in more areas and positions on the ground e.g. Frawley, Burgoyne, Gibson. No point criticising other posts for suggesting a player might have market value if your aren't prepared to get off the fence yourself

 

[Satyriconhome 10,737]

15 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

Hey Saty, your views on the players aren't balanced which is nice if you follow the company line but is boring on a forum as it doesn't add anything to the debate and is disingenuous

If another Melksham, Hibberd, or Lewis came along that improved out list then Goodwin and you would take them in a heartbeat. Hawthorn had a great list in their premiership years but still added quality to their list so that it was elite in more areas and positions on the ground e.g. Frawley, Burgoyne, Gibson. No point criticising other posts for suggesting a player might have market value if your aren't prepared to get off the fence yourself

 

I actually put that in my post, lack of comprehension on your part or only interested in criticising

I am all for improving the list, but prefer the FD to drive that, I checked with Goody

Like I said don't read my posts, I don't care