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List Structure: What do we actually need?


Mach5

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Lots of people saying we need ruck depth - but we have proven we can still consistently win the clearance count with makeshift ruck rotations (which gives us other advantages around the ground). So as long as we keep Spencer, why do we need ruck depth? We have 2 more potentials developing as we speak. 

The Mac bro's and Frost have been excellent in recent weeks, and I'm really starting to see the potential of Oscar and Sam (Tom's always been great IMO). But I think we need a genuine elite KPD, and as others have said, Lever would be the dream, and I'd pay overs for him. He would complete what I would consider to be one of the best half half rosters  going around come next year.

Other than that, I'll take another Jeffy if available.

 

 

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1 hour ago, DominatrixTyson said:

Make a play for Motlop as a stay-at-home small forward then? Geelong might want someone like ANB or Kent.

Motlop's a free agent so we could get him for nothing more than salary cap space. Could be worth the punt playing as that high half-forward/wingman who can break lines. I haven't watched him enough this year though so not sure if he's got rid of that inconsistency that's always been there.

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Can't beleive Motlop is only 26... Could be a good pick up and add some more x factor... however would absolutely love Kelly to be reunited with Salem and Hunt... however we just won't have the trade currency compared to other teams like north and the saints

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5 hours ago, GCDee said:

Can't beleive Motlop is only 26... Could be a good pick up and add some more x factor... however would absolutely love Kelly to be reunited with Salem and Hunt... however we just won't have the trade currency compared to other teams like north and the saints

No for me, lazy , poor work ethic, uncompetitive, only likes to get it on his terms.!!!

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On 19/06/2017 at 11:19 PM, shorty said:

 

I would put up Tmac/Kent and throw in a future 1st and 2nds for trade to get two of these guy's to the club. Our window is opening up and we must act this year.

?

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Sneaky little bump here... what with all our re-signings.

This topic actually occupies more of my demons ponderings than anything else right now. Don't get me wrong, I'm on board with this season, and will ride this wave til it's over. However...

I think most people would say that the serious heavy lifting being done at the club, the core, Viney, Oliver, Petracca, Hogan, Gawn... they're that young that our window really is open for at least 6 years. Surround those guys with short termers like Jordie (and a bunch of super players in the next tier like Hibberd, Garlett, Hannan, Jetta)...And the way I see it we have an incredibly well set next 3 years... and after that are in a place where we only need to rotate aged players out and recruit for specific needs... It's every list-managers wet dream. Only thing lacking possibly is more stars...

So with that in mind... And with JKH re-signing... I'm having real consternation over what happens on the bottom end of the list. There's some players there I don't want to see go, but someone has to. And not just in this one off season.

Anyone not named Trengove, Kennedy, Garland, Hulett and Spencer are going to be there next year. For a variety of reasons. Either they're superstars, will be re-rookied or were recently re-signed. I reckon JKH getting re-signed changes the complexion of the list enormously.

So minimum is 3 players turned over. Pick your three... That's sort of already been covered.

What I'm interested in now though is the following two years. We will be taking 3 players in the draft. We may trade picks or a player for someone else's KP defender. Or a KP forward as people have discussed. I think you might even see a Jordie Lewis situation pop up in the next couple of off-seasons, where an aging star says get me to MFC.

So 3 draftees this year and next. We are going to see some serious talent have to leave the club. And what's more, because it's cramped, we will be pushing assets out of the club to rise up in the draft order, particularly in 2018, which as it happens is a superdraft year.

Think about it. For 6-8 years, the starting 22 will have Gawn, Viney, Oliver, Tracca, Hogan, Salem, Watts, Viney, Tyson, Stretch, Hannan, TMac, Hunt every possible game they're fit. That's 13 names. You only need 9 more for a 22... We've got a bunch of 27 year olds that pick themselves just as much as those names. Hibberd, Jetta, Garlett... Then you have guys that are developing, that you'd assume would produce 15 games a year in Harmes, Wags, ANB, OMac, Weed. There is no room in this 22... Unless something bad happens. A trade or an unforseen bad injury. Fair enough... You still need to slot in two first rounders and two second rounders in the time that the above names are running around playing finals.

My point... I've been seeing arguably the best football my club's played in my adult life this last month. With as good a match-day coach as I've seen in my adult life. With easily the best midfield I've seen in red and blue in my adult life, who are all yet to hit their prime... and all those things aren't even the best thing about MFC. The projected list is. It's fair to say in this off season there might be not one player on it that I think is NQR. I'm blown away by that.

Alright. Jizz post done.

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While it would be nice to have a Kelly or Lever, I'm getting to the point where I don't think we need that much. Defence, mids, ruck and forwards are developing nicely, as is the hardness, spirit and belief.

Just keep turning over a few players at the bottom of the list, and make sure we have a serviceable backup ruck.

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On 6/24/2017 at 10:48 AM, DemonAndrew said:

motlop would be a handy free agent acquisition

Motlop goes against everything we have tried to stand for over recent seasons and, to me, would be a horrible addition to our list.  He doesn't bring along any of the qualities we look for.  

I'm still baffled as to why North, St. Kilda and now Carlton are in the discussion for Josh Kelly.  Why would he want to join them over us if he was coming back to Victoria?  From what I gather our salary cap is more than fine and we have a better list, and a list that he would complement nicely.

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People seem to forget that Garland is signed til end of 2018; he's on the list for next year

As per above, Lumumba goes

An outdated list of those out of contract at the end of 2017 is here: http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/out_of_contract_players

Of that lot, Weed has recommitted to the club and I note that JKH has already been removed from it

You would think Trengove will finish up, and that Hulett May struggle to hold his place on the senior list

Injuries aside, I would love to see AVB retained as I still he's ostensibly best 22, but Hannan definitely has taken his place in 2017, and we have no idea how bad his heel actually is

ANB and Stretch are must-retains for mine, and Vince would either stay for another year or retire you would think - it's hard to see him going to a third club

Our list position is fairly healthy 

We still need depth of talent across all lines and skillful line breakers - I would seriously look to see if we could somehow get Gaff back from meth coke as he's so good on the outside of the contest 

But I have faith in the football dept that they'll do the right thing...something that simply could not have been said as little as four years ago

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4 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Motlop goes against everything we have tried to stand for over recent seasons and, to me, would be a horrible addition to our list.  He doesn't bring along any of the qualities we look for.  

I'm still baffled as to why North, St. Kilda and now Carlton are in the discussion for Josh Kelly.  Why would he want to join them over us if he was coming back to Victoria?  From what I gather our salary cap is more than fine and we have a better list, and a list that he would complement nicely.

People said the exact same thing about Jeff Garlett

Would love Kelly but the money they're talking for him is ridiculous - plus I think he'll ultimately stay at GW$

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6 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

People seem to forget that Garland is signed til end of 2018; he's on the list for next year

As per above, Lumumba goes

An outdated list of those out of contract at the end of 2017 is here: http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/out_of_contract_players

 

I think Col will retire and be paid out.

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21 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Think about it. For 6-8 years, the starting 22 will have Gawn, Viney, Oliver, Tracca, Hogan, Salem, Watts, Viney, Tyson, Stretch, Hannan, TMac, Hunt every possible game they're fit. That's 13 names. You only need 9 more for a 22... We've got a bunch of 27 year olds that pick themselves just as much as those names. Hibberd, Jetta, Garlett... Then you have guys that are developing, that you'd assume would produce 15 games a year in Harmes, Wags, ANB, OMac, Weed. There is no room in this 22... Unless something bad happens. A trade or an unforseen bad injury. Fair enough... You still need to slot in two first rounders and two second rounders in the time that the above names are running around playing finals.

Good post, I think we'll see by the end of 2018, Brayshaw, Frost, OMac and Weid also commanding a position in the best 22, so we're up to 19 names, plus J.Smith, Harmes, AVB, JKH and ANB have potential to also join the automatic selected list. We'll be in a situation where those 1st and 2nd round draft picks will be able to develop properly at Casey. The rest of the list is for role players (Bugg, Melksham at present), those draftees and veterans (Jones, Hibberd and Jetta will be around for a while). 

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I would be looking for another Hibberd type trade to bring in something we need.

We also need to bring in a couple of good kids in the next 2 drafts to keep the talent pool and age profile well balanced.

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On 18/06/2017 at 9:52 PM, Wiseblood said:

I still don't understand why we can't be in the frame for Josh Kelly.  Money might be the issue, but we are far better side than North or St. Kilda and surely you would choose to play for us over those clubs.

Wouldn't mind another tall - Lever would be terrific, but even if we just had further insurance (like another Pedersen) then I'd be happy with that.

I agree with this. I don't see why MFC wouldn't be in the frame for Josh Kelly. He would have to take slightly less off of us, but we have a better outlook. He would still be getting paid well.

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5 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Good post, I think we'll see by the end of 2018, Brayshaw, Frost, OMac and Weid also commanding a position in the best 22, so we're up to 19 names, plus J.Smith, Harmes, AVB, JKH and ANB have potential to also join the automatic selected list. We'll be in a situation where those 1st and 2nd round draft picks will be able to develop properly at Casey. The rest of the list is for role players (Bugg, Melksham at present), those draftees and veterans (Jones, Hibberd and Jetta will be around for a while). 

Yeah exactly. I didn't include those first few names just because If you're glass half empty, they haven't made it yet. Frost probably the most stiff of those. In terms of pure quality/ability, there's a reason Braysh and Weed were taken early, and everyone can see it. I can totally see games coming along where Hogan gets double teamed and Weed outscores him. Long way to go, but that's his potential.

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3 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah exactly. I didn't include those first few names just because If you're glass half empty, they haven't made it yet. Frost probably the most stiff of those. In terms of pure quality/ability, there's a reason Braysh and Weed were taken early, and everyone can see it. I can totally see games coming along where Hogan gets double teamed and Weed outscores him. Long way to go, but that's his potential.

Not sure we can wait till 2020 for the Weid to pull that one off DD.

we need a CPF and or CPB added for 2018.

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