The things I have learnt in 2017

[btdemon 475]

At this point things could have been very different had we not been hampered by injury and lack of discipline. We could still play in September if we can hang together for the next few weeks and be creative in relation to our ruck strategies

• We have improved as a team and are playing an exciting, attacking brand of football. It is vulnerable and requires a frenzied attack on the ball. This is difficult to sustain for 4 quarters but we should have won at least two of the three games we have lost had we not kicked poorly, had injuries and lost key players due to undisciplined acts. We should be 4-1 or 5-0. That all adds up to IMPROVEMENT. 
• Despite us losing these winnable games we are building a great ethic and an a more even contribution across the team.
• There is some over possessing going on but it often involves attempts at dinky handball and flukey taps. This can appear foolhardy but they must continue to do this to perfect it. It is a weapon in the modern game.  
• We have a number of good players down on form. Viney, Tyson, Hogan
• We still make some poor decisions, but believe it or not, I think they are less frequent
• Watts has learnt how to compete in a way hat he has never done before. This injury crisis has been a watershed moment for him. He should be in the leadership group next year because he is showing that on the field. A strong Watts is a great indicator for out team and the culture.
• Oliver, Petracca, Salem and Hunt will be stars. 
• Vince is still useful and has been playing under duress. I would have had him harass Dusty last night but Goodwin had other ideas. Lewis will help out down back
• T Mac had a shocker against Riewoldt. Riewoldt is a very clever player.
• Despite the current gnashing of teeth, I think Goodwin is a very good coach in the making. Creative, innovative, a good communicator and the players PLAY FOR HIM and believe in the gameplan. We know that this is crucial. You can see it in the frenzied attack on the ball.
• The team is the youngest in the comp. I expected to to win somewhere between 8 and 14 games but certainly didn't expect to roll into the top half of the eight in September. We can still make it if we don't lose the plot
• We need to have plans to replace the older players. Bernie, Jones. We also have to plan for the next age group decline. Watts, Jetta, Pedo are all in the 26-30 bracket and while they may continue to improve for a couple of years they will then begin to taper off
• We need at least one more project ruckman (this is very wise after the event). Obviously Flipper is nowhere near it and King is raw and not match-hardened. We have to learn from this experience. Thank god we didn't delist Spencil as some posters would have

On other teams

• Richmond aren't that good and thy'll lose next week against the Crows
• Neither are Geelong but they will finish top four because of the draw and good luck. Both teams have great starts to the year and that helps
• Giants and Crows are the clear leaders. 
• Essendon worry me next week but hopefully we will have a backs to the wall win. We sure deserve some luck

I've done the AFL ladder predictor many times already and this is the most unpredictable of years! My last one had us eke out 12 wins and scrape in to 8th spot

 

[jumbo returns 6,500]

Good summary

I think you've let the coaching panel off the hook

Against Freo, Watts signalled to the bench to be released down back, but was told to stay put

Last night, against the Tigers, a 20 odd point lead should have been enough if we played defensively

Structures around the ball have been poor - this is a coaching issue as well as a player/leadership issue

Thank heavens Jordan Lewis comes in next week

[JV7 2,339]

16 minutes ago, btdemon said:

At this point things could have been very different had we not been hampered by injury and lack of discipline. We could still play in September if we can hang together for the next few weeks and be creative in relation to our ruck strategies

• We have improved as a team and are playing an exciting, attacking brand of football. It is vulnerable and requires a frenzied attack on the ball. This is difficult to sustain for 4 quarters but we should have won at least two of the three games we have lost had we not kicked poorly, had injuries and lost key players due to undisciplined acts. We should be 4-1 or 5-0. That all adds up to IMPROVEMENT. 
• Despite us losing these winnable games we are building a great ethic and an a more even contribution across the team.
• There is some over possessing going on but it often involves attempts at dinky handball and flukey taps. This can appear foolhardy but they must continue to do this to perfect it. It is a weapon in the modern game.  
• We have a number of good players down on form. Viney, Tyson, Hogan
• We still make some poor decisions, but believe it or not, I think they are less frequent
• Watts has learnt how to compete in a way hat he has never done before. This injury crisis has been a watershed moment for him. He should be in the leadership group next year because he is showing that on the field. A strong Watts is a great indicator for out team and the culture.
• Oliver, Petracca, Salem and Hunt will be stars. 
• Vince is still useful and has been playing under duress. I would have had him harass Dusty last night but Goodwin had other ideas. Lewis will help out down back
• T Mac had a shocker against Riewoldt. Riewoldt is a very clever player.
• Despite the current gnashing of teeth, I think Goodwin is a very good coach in the making. Creative, innovative, a good communicator and the players PLAY FOR HIM and believe in the gameplan. We know that this is crucial. You can see it in the frenzied attack on the ball.
• The team is the youngest in the comp. I expected to to win somewhere between 8 and 14 games but certainly didn't expect to roll into the top half of the eight in September. We can still make it if we don't lose the plot
• We need to have plans to replace the older players. Bernie, Jones. We also have to plan for the next age group decline. Watts, Jetta, Pedo are all in the 26-30 bracket and while they may continue to improve for a couple of years they will then begin to taper off
• We need at least one more project ruckman (this is very wise after the event). Obviously Flipper is nowhere near it and King is raw and not match-hardened. We have to learn from this experience. Thank god we didn't delist Spencil as some posters would have

On other teams

• Richmond aren't that good and thy'll lose next week against the Crows
• Neither are Geelong but they will finish top four because of the draw and good luck. Both teams have great starts to the year and that helps
• Giants and Crows are the clear leaders. 
• Essendon worry me next week but hopefully we will have a backs to the wall win. We sure deserve some luck

I've done the AFL ladder predictor many times already and this is the most unpredictable of years! My last one had us eke out 12 wins and scrape in to 8th spot

 

 

But do we ? Apart from the 2nd & 3rd quarters of the St.Kilda game & a half of the Geelong game I am yet to see this fast paced, free flowing ball movement consistently... I mostly see a side over posses, turn the ball over by foot, handball to flat footed players, forward handballs. I think back to the Hawthorn game last season & see better ball movement, link up run & efficiency going forward. I have a feeling it might all click at some point this season but has Goodwin gone too far one way in terms of attacking ? I'm more frustrated then excited with our style. I'm just confused where that style of play from the St.Kilda game has gone where it was a frantic, fast paced, exciting brand ? 

[Diamond_Jim 11,854]

4 minutes ago, JV7 said:

But do we ? Apart from the 2nd & 3rd quarters of the St.Kilda game & a half of the Geelong game I am yet to see this fast paced, free flowing ball movement consistently... I mostly see a side over posses, turn the ball over by foot, handball to flat footed players, forward handballs. I think back to the Hawthorn game last season & see better ball movement, link up run & efficiency going forward. I have a feeling it might all click at some point this season but has Goodwin gone too far one way in terms of attacking ? I'm more frustrated then excited with our style. I'm just confused where that style of play from the St.Kilda game has gone where it was a frantic, fast paced, exciting brand ? 

Agree

someone last night posted the stats of our main midfielders ... handball to kick ratio..... the over reliance on handball was readily apparent.

Same at VFL level. A chain of three handballs with the last going to a player who was covered notwithstanding that players one and two could have kicked it forward.

It could be that coaches prefer the third player getting caught and the subsequent ball up rather than the risk of an intercepted kick

[Ted Lasso 16,872]

I think our best is in the best 4 teams in the comp but for a variety of reasons we can't sustain it over four quarters. I think the wheel is turning and at some point this year it will click and we will convert our dominance into wins. 

We have a good blend of experience and elite young talent, some good kicking skills emerging now but may struggle with no real ruck options in the short term 

I think watts has been our best player so far this year 

[Forest Demon 4,681]

9 minutes ago, Abe said:

I think our best is in the best 4 teams in the comp but for a variety of reasons we can't sustain it over four quarters. I think the wheel is turning and at some point this year it will click and we will convert our dominance into wins. 

We have a good blend of experience and elite young talent, some good kicking skills emerging now but may struggle with no real ruck options in the short term 

I think watts has been our best player so far this year 

I'm usually a little more pessimistic around Melbourne, but I actually agree.

If we fight out a few wins and be 50/50 when we get Gawn back, I could see us going on a bit of a run later in the year.

Besides Adelaide and GWS, no other side really worries me, and I'll be surprised if Adelaide will keep playing at their current level.

[Ted Lasso 16,872]

1 minute ago, Forest Demon said:

I'm usually a little more pessimistic around Melbourne, but I actually agree.

If we fight out a few wins and be 50/50 when we get Gawn back, I could see us going on a bit of a run later in the year.

Besides Adelaide and GWS, no other side really worries me, and I'll be surprised if Adelaide will keep playing at their current level.

As it sits, the cats and tigers are undefeated top 4 sides and we dominated both for extended periods, at some point we will learn to convert that and start winning those games and that's why I am not as concened by being 2-3, even the crows and giants are teams we have recently played well against or beaten fairly regularly. 

Even if we don't play finals I am so much more confident in our direction now than I was last year 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

30 minutes ago, JV7 said:

But do we ? Apart from the 2nd & 3rd quarters of the St.Kilda game & a half of the Geelong game I am yet to see this fast paced, free flowing ball movement consistently... I mostly see a side over posses, turn the ball over by foot, handball to flat footed players, forward handballs. I think back to the Hawthorn game last season & see better ball movement, link up run & efficiency going forward. I have a feeling it might all click at some point this season but has Goodwin gone too far one way in terms of attacking ? I'm more frustrated then excited with our style. I'm just confused where that style of play from the St.Kilda game has gone where it was a frantic, fast paced, exciting brand ? 

I've mostly seen a side dominate for large parts of the game using the above method, but I guess we all see things differently.

And yes, I'm not happy with the brain farts we had against Geelong and Freo.  Not much we could do about it last night.

[Moonshadow 16,274]

Who would've thought 8 weeks ago that Watts would be manfully shouldering the ruck and playing well, or that Hogan would be out of form and openly sulking on field. 

[The heart beats true 16,296]

The thing I've learned, that I think is the most important for the next 5 years, is that Clayton Oliver is a genuine A grader.

I knew he was good but he's still played under 20 games. On what I saw him do last night he's going to be one of the best 3 players in the comp in a couple of preseasons.

[brendan 3,390]

Some of olivers handballs last night were rediculous, he just gets the ball and goes BANG, would be leading the B&F by a fair margin right now 

[MudDogs Gawn Win.. someday 499]

1 hour ago, btdemon said:

At this point things could have been very different had we not been hampered by injury and lack of discipline. We could still play in September if we can hang together for the next few weeks and be creative in relation to our ruck strategies

• We have improved as a team and are playing an exciting, attacking brand of football. It is vulnerable and requires a frenzied attack on the ball. This is difficult to sustain for 4 quarters but we should have won at least two of the three games we have lost had we not kicked poorly, had injuries and lost key players due to undisciplined acts. We should be 4-1 or 5-0. That all adds up to IMPROVEMENT. 
• Despite us losing these winnable games we are building a great ethic and an a more even contribution across the team.
• There is some over possessing going on but it often involves attempts at dinky handball and flukey taps. This can appear foolhardy but they must continue to do this to perfect it. It is a weapon in the modern game.  
• We have a number of good players down on form. Viney, Tyson, Hogan
• We still make some poor decisions, but believe it or not, I think they are less frequent
• Watts has learnt how to compete in a way hat he has never done before. This injury crisis has been a watershed moment for him. He should be in the leadership group next year because he is showing that on the field. A strong Watts is a great indicator for out team and the culture.
• Oliver, Petracca, Salem and Hunt will be stars. 
• Vince is still useful and has been playing under duress. I would have had him harass Dusty last night but Goodwin had other ideas. Lewis will help out down back
• T Mac had a shocker against Riewoldt. Riewoldt is a very clever player.
• Despite the current gnashing of teeth, I think Goodwin is a very good coach in the making. Creative, innovative, a good communicator and the players PLAY FOR HIM and believe in the gameplan. We know that this is crucial. You can see it in the frenzied attack on the ball.
• The team is the youngest in the comp. I expected to to win somewhere between 8 and 14 games but certainly didn't expect to roll into the top half of the eight in September. We can still make it if we don't lose the plot
• We need to have plans to replace the older players. Bernie, Jones. We also have to plan for the next age group decline. Watts, Jetta, Pedo are all in the 26-30 bracket and while they may continue to improve for a couple of years they will then begin to taper off
• We need at least one more project ruckman (this is very wise after the event). Obviously Flipper is nowhere near it and King is raw and not match-hardened. We have to learn from this experience. Thank god we didn't delist Spencil as some posters would have

On other teams

• Richmond aren't that good and thy'll lose next week against the Crows
• Neither are Geelong but they will finish top four because of the draw and good luck. Both teams have great starts to the year and that helps
• Giants and Crows are the clear leaders. 
• Essendon worry me next week but hopefully we will have a backs to the wall win. We sure deserve some luck

I've done the AFL ladder predictor many times already and this is the most unpredictable of years! My last one had us eke out 12 wins and scrape in to 8th spot

 

 

I think T.Mac didn't have a shocker.. Reiwoldt just had a blinder.. T.Mac still kicked a goal on him and also set up multiple attacks from the wing and half back.. Jack was very good at reading the play and doubling back hard away from T.Mac after he left him to attack, he was caught out when the ball came back with interest and we simply had no one to cover.. 

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1 hour ago, btdemon said:

 

 

Cracking, cracking post BT. Can't disagree with any of it. I hate relentless mindless optimism... your post isn't any of that though. I left the Tigers game massively optimistic, while at the same time bleeding a bit. We're heading absolutely in the right direction though and that's a genuinely new feeling over the last couple of seasons from any time I remember as a demons supporter.

I'd like to see a glass half empty version of your post though. Or in other words, What are our pressing concerns int he medium term. You touched on ruckmen, what else? KPD? Pace? 3rd tall?

[The heart beats true 16,296]

13 minutes ago, Mud Dogs Gonna Win said:

I think T.Mac didn't have a shocker.. Reiwoldt just had a blinder.. T.Mac still kicked a goal on him and also set up multiple attacks from the wing and half back.. Jack was very good at reading the play and doubling back hard away from T.Mac after he left him to attack, he was caught out when the ball came back with interest and we simply had no one to cover.. 

Very well spotted.

Riewoldt got 3 goals from gambling and not competing in the air. Instead he ran the other way. When it works it looks fantastic.

[grazman 6,501]

We're still a very young side and are transitioning from being an average team to being a good team.  We see that in patches in matches. The upside is that only a couple of quarters this year have been below par in terms of intensity.  Yes we overuse the ball, but that is part of the transition to learn how not to do that.  I am bullish about the future when we transition from being a good side (would help to have 22 fit players including your best 6 out there) to being a very good side.

[At the break of Gawn 3,533]

Agree with Watts. He hasn't kicked as many goals this year due to ruck duties, but he's such a competitor now. He's almost one of our most consistent players (behind Jetta, Oliver, Gawn when in).

It was annoying on Fox footy how McGuire is like, "which Jack Watts will turn up tonight?" I don't think that needs to be asked anymore. He always gives his all now which is incredibly pleasing, and to be fair, probably one of the last players we would be calling consistent a couple of years ago. 

Also, I still think Hogan is in better form this year compared to last.

Have also learnt that Hibberd is going to be very, very good for our back line.

[Ted Lasso 16,872]

10 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Agree with Watts. He hasn't kicked as many goals this year due to ruck duties, but he's such a competitor now. He's almost one of our most consistent players (behind Jetta, Oliver, Gawn when in).

It was annoying on Fox footy how McGuire is like, "which Jack Watts will turn up tonight?" I don't think that needs to be asked anymore. He always gives his all now which is incredibly pleasing, and to be fair, probably one of the last players we would be calling consistent a couple of years ago. 

Also, I still think Hogan is in better form this year compared to last.

Have also learnt that Hibberd is going to be very, very good for our back line.

Eddie is a tool, jack watts has more heart than the entire Collingwood football club combined, they're a team of mercenaries who only go there for the $$ a coach who was so concerned with stamping his own legacy that he turned a premiership winning list into a potential bottom 4 list in only a few seasons. 

[WERRIDEE 5,218]

1 hour ago, The heart beats true said:

Very well spotted.

Riewoldt got 3 goals from gambling and not competing in the air. Instead he ran the other way. When it works it looks fantastic.

The Riewoldts, Hawkins and McCarthy have killed us this year. This year McDonald has been far too loose, we probably need another tall back to give him a chop out.

[Steve13 457]

What I have learnt - We are going to be a very good team over the next 5 years

[mrtwister 650]

3 hours ago, brendan said:

Some of olivers handballs last night were rediculous, he just gets the ball and goes BANG, would be leading the B&F by a fair margin right now 

And his best one last night was when he was on the ground and managed to hit jones over his right shoulder who was wide open and about to run off and deliver it upfield when they called it back for a throw. I thought it was legit but I was watching it on tv. Anyone at the game get a better look at it? 

[MudDogs Gawn Win.. someday 499]

3 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Very well spotted.

Riewoldt got 3 goals from gambling and not competing in the air. Instead he ran the other way. When it works it looks fantastic.

Couldn't agree more. I think only those who were at the game would of actually noticed this..

[ViaLoop 11]

3 minutes ago, Mud Dogs Gonna Win said:

Couldn't agree more. I think only those who were at the game would of actually noticed this..

It was noticeable on TV too. I just felt that someone should have stayed down with him. Two blokes going up for a spoil and it tips out the back, it never ends well.

[Demon Disciple 11,035]

6 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Last night, against the Tigers, a 20 odd point lead should have been enough if we played defensively

Structures around the ball have been poor - this is a coaching issue as well as a player/leadership issue

This. It is the coaches not recognising the situation of the game, and acting accordingly.

Apart from the first game of the season, i believe the coaching group has been rather underwhelming.

[jumbo returns 6,500]

3 hours ago, Steve13 said:

What I have learnt - We are going to be a very good team over the next 5 years

Sigh

Heard that before

[btdemon 475]

8 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Cracking, cracking post BT. Can't disagree with any of it. I hate relentless mindless optimism... your post isn't any of that though. I left the Tigers game massively optimistic, while at the same time bleeding a bit. We're heading absolutely in the right direction though and that's a genuinely new feeling over the last couple of seasons from any time I remember as a demons supporter.

I'd like to see a glass half empty version of your post though. Or in other words, What are our pressing concerns int he medium term. You touched on ruckmen, what else? KPD? Pace? 3rd tall?

Thanks Dan. Like most of us here I went to bed feeling devastated and pizzed off. I was convinced that the season was finished annoyed that the commentators were carrying on about what a great fighting come back the Tigers had made. Not that the Dees were on top but down two key men. It was obvious we were unlikely to hold on.

I woke up this morning determined to see the positives. Very much against my natural tendencies. The fact is, I think we are in good hands and heading the right direction. The challenges of injury can help define the character of the team and help build a fighting spirit. I do think Goodwin is a keeper. Go Dees!

Edited April 25, 2017 by btdemon