Pay Equality

[junk 342]

Now that the women have an "a" grade comp,they should get the same pay deal as the men. We can't decrimate these days and we can't afford female socialites complaining how unfair it is. The women in tennis get the same pay as the men despite only be forced to play 3 sets compared to the mens 5 sets. Yes lets go for equality. 

[Pates 9,660]

No. Just no. They are not there yet. The competition is currently free entry, a good move on the AFL's part to boost exposure. 

But until money is being brought into the game in a somewhat equal way, which can be argued to a point in women's tennis, it's not "equal" to give the same pay deal to the women's league. In fact I would go as far to say the men would rightfully feel insulted if that were to happen. 

People are getting way too far ahead of themselves off the back of what has been a successful FIRST YEAR of the league. Clubs lobbying to get expansion teams, there are so many things wrong with that idea starting with the standard of play. I've enjoyed watching it but there have been some awful skills as well. They need time to build the next talent pool.

Everyone needs to take a breath at the end of the AFLW season, smile at the way it's been received and investigate what step (not leap) needs to come next. I believe the AFL is renegotiating the TV deal which should see more go into their pay. They should look at payment for fans to come to the games, at bare minimum it should be made gold coin donation. I'd say $5 for adults, $2 for teens, free for kids 12 and under. 

This has been a very good first step in a much larger journey. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Pates

[Skuit 10,031]

57 minutes ago, McQueen said:

You're just bitter ENYAW has swooped in to nab your WODT award.

Decrimate:  A totally comprised word to produce one seem like they know what they're speaking frankly about when they really don't.

https://www.azdictionary.com/urban-dictionary/definition/decrimate

 

[McQueen 17,864]

27 minutes ago, Skuit said:

You're just bitter ENYAW has swooped in to nab your WODT award.

Decrimate:  A totally comprised word to produce one seem like they know what they're speaking frankly about when they really don't.

https://www.azdictionary.com/urban-dictionary/definition/decrimate

 

I think Wayne did a thesaurus search based off of my excellent WOTD.

[Akum 2,660]

I'm aware that ENYAW is just trying to stir the possum. But there's a point that has to be made about this old chestnut.

But the major factor in women's football is that the extra sponsorship and advertising dollars it could generate for the AFL could be massive, equalling and surpassing the revenue generated by the men's comp.

Surely a major factor for equal pay in tennis would be the huge advertising revenue that women like Serena & Sharapova attract, even though the men might bring more people through the gate; this would therefore boost the broadcasting revenue too.

A thriving women's competition allows the AFL to negotiate a much higher price from the FTA & pay TV rights, because of the extra advertising opportunities it gives to use the AFL to market a huge range of products to the half of the population that men-only AFL doesn't reach.  

The interest in women's football among the general public is way out of proportion to the crowd sizes. And that's the point - it's not the crowd sizes that matter, it's the capacity of women's football to boost total incomes into the sport.

And on this basis, when women do get increased pay until they reach equity, it will be because they've deserved it, not because they've had it handed to them.

[bandicoot 1,395]

Equal pay will come when aflw lands a $2.5 billion tv rights deal, attracts 400,000 paying fans to its opening weekend and has clubs attract a $2m per year major sponsor.

no sport in the world has woman earn as much as men (even tennis apart from grand slams). Reason bring no woman sports attracts the same coverage as men's 

[CBDees 3,167]

It seems crazy that the eight teams all have to disband for ten months immediately after the GF next week and go back and play suburban football with amateur coaches and no exposure. Surely the competition could continue in the background without being too much of a threat by fragmenting the support base and thereby allowing the girls (like Daisy) to become professional. Personally, I enjoy watching the girls and I am sure that they would grow the code and grow the sponsorship to pay their own way! 

[Little Goffy 14,524]

Enyaw is clearly trolling, I'm sure we can all see that. Most of all by pretending that people are demanding equal pay for AFLW, when absolutely nobody is.

At this point, the most 'aggressive' and 'crazy' claims for pay come to about 5% of the men's salaries, with more emphasis on creating the development resources like equipment and coaches that would actually make it possible to excel.

As for the 'they'll get the same pay once they have achieved the same', it's a bit like saying that women physicists in 1900 shouldn't be paid as much because they haven't won as many Nobel Prizes - nevermind that they weren't permitted to attend courses. The odd result was that only the most determined and talented women were able to get anywhere at all in physics, so those that did manage to break through ended up being massive over-achievers compared to the average bulk-produced male physicists. Possible lesson there?

So my point overall

- women AFL players should be paid enough to allow them to focus fully on achieving excellence

- and they should have access to the support resources required to achieve excellence

I know, it's outrageous. Such wild claims.

[What 18,810]

2 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

 

At this point, the most 'aggressive' and 'crazy' claims for pay come to about 5% of the men's salaries, with more emphasis on creating the development resources like equipment and coaches that would actually make it possible to excel.

As for the 'they'll get the same pay once they have achieved the same', it's a bit like saying that women physicists in 1900 shouldn't be paid as much because they haven't won as many Nobel Prizes -

Its irrelevant how much AFL players make.

The women's players will make what they are owed, which will be a share of the revenue the AFLW league pulls in -  ie. not much

 

[Adzman 2,154]

The women's AFL has just been established. How about some investment in growing the league and fan base before we starting handing our Buddy Franklin contracts in the women's AFL.

 

[CBDees 3,167]

14 minutes ago, Adzman said:

The women's AFL has just been established. How about some investment in growing the league and fan base before we starting handing our Buddy Franklin contracts in the women's AFL.

 

Who's talking about Lance Franklin contracts? I am sure that they would be over the moon if they were all on a rookie wage!

[jnrmac 20,060]

18 hours ago, ENYAW said:

Now that the women have an "a" grade comp,they should get the same pay deal as the men. We can't decrimate these days and we can't afford female socialites complaining how unfair it is. The women in tennis get the same pay as the men despite only be forced to play 3 sets compared to the mens 5 sets. Yes lets go for equality. 

How is that equal? What bulldust.

[Lucifers Hero 39,747]

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

Its irrelevant how much AFL players make.

The women's players will make what they are owed, which will be a share of the revenue the AFLW league pulls in -  ie. not much

The AFL gave away the TV rights for zip for 2 years!  Yes, zip!  Channel 7 is getting record viewing audiences - at times well above AFL games and is making squillions from advertisers.  The AFL and AFLW get not one brass razoo!  Not even from the Grand Final!!

If the AFL are dumb enough to do that, it is no reason why the players should wear the cost.  I'm not suggesting equal pay or anything like it, just noting that the AFL have played this badly. 

There are also are direct financial benefits to the AFL eg 

1. the Brisbane Lions has for years tried to get government funding for new facilities with zero results.  Now with the AFLW team the Qld government is literally throwing money at the Lions and can't wait to build new facilities with a boutique stadium attached. http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/womens-afl/the-ladies-have-it-queensland-government-keen-to-invest-in-new-facilities-for-lions-because-of-aflw/news-story/64dad464744125c2d3073bc17fa9ac95. This saves the AFL having to foot the bill.  And, it enable the AFL Brisbane Lions, with elite facilities, to be a more attractive club to male players and have a better chance of keeping their young talent.

2. And from a demons viewpoint.  I just love seeing the NAB ads during games which feature Daisy and kids (a little boy in a supermarket and a little girl who kicks a goal) that are decked out in Melbourne gear.  I reckon a lot more kids will be going to their school 'wear your footy jumper day' in the red and blue.  Many will have #6 on the back and I doubt it will be for Lewis.  The spinoffs from this exposure cannot be measured in dollars and cents but it makes me more proud to be a Demon supporter and to encourage people to take out a membership.

Again not suggestion equal pay, just saying that the Brisbane and Demons exposure are examples of a direct financial benefit to AFL teams, so looking only at what AFLW 'pulls in' doesn't give the real picture.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Little Goffy 14,524]

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

Its irrelevant how much AFL players make.

The women's players will make what they are owed, which will be a share of the revenue the AFLW league pulls in -  ie. not much

 

Ahh, the old 'small clubs like the Demons don't make money for the game and should be shut down' argument.

Also, 'the VFL, SANFL, WAFL and NEAFL should all be closed' argument.

And the 'players should be paid based on their media profile' argument.

And the 'why bother funding TAC Cup when hardly anyone watches' argument.

And the 'what's the point of Auskick anyway' argument.

 

Honestly, Petraccattack, you're making some pretty weird arguments to try to mask some pretty tedious personal issues about the status of women.

[What 18,810]

52 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

 

Honestly, Petraccattack, you're making some pretty weird arguments to try to mask some pretty tedious personal issues about the status of women.

 

This is a ridiculous thing to say.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,503]

This isn't something that is being discussed anywhere other than in threads started by insecure trolls.

[Wilson7 2,670]

22 hours ago, ENYAW said:

Now that the women have an "a" grade comp,they should get the same pay deal as the men. We can't decrimate these days and we can't afford female socialites complaining how unfair it is. The women in tennis get the same pay as the men despite only be forced to play 3 sets compared to the mens 5 sets. Yes lets go for equality. 

[Pates 9,660]

2 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

This isn't something that is being discussed anywhere other than in threads started by insecure trolls.

True but I guess (and perhaps this should start a new thread) but it raises the question of where do we go from here? As I said above the next will be to see how the fans react to paying to see the product. 

That the AFL handed over broadcast rights to Seven is just incredible and completely underestimating a) the product and b) how starved for footy fans are in Melbourne. 

I do think their pay is inadequate, this along with talent indentification and development should be top priorities. And I personally think the first expansion shouldn't happen until 2021. 

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,503]

14 minutes ago, Pates said:

True but I guess (and perhaps this should start a new thread) but it raises the question of where do we go from here? As I said above the next will be to see how the fans react to paying to see the product. 

That the AFL handed over broadcast rights to Seven is just incredible and completely underestimating a) the product and b) how starved for footy fans are in Melbourne. 

I do think their pay is inadequate, this along with talent indentification and development should be top priorities. And I personally think the first expansion shouldn't happen until 2021. 

You're right and that is a discussion worth having... this thread, not so much.

[binman 42,903]

34 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

You're right and that is a discussion worth having... this thread, not so much.

No, because it was started to cause angst.

That said there is no doubt the women players should be paid more. As much as men? Of course not, but as someone noted no one is arguing they should. But most definetley much more than the paltry 10k the average players get now. Look at the injury rate. Do an ACL and there goes your job as, say landscape gardener or tennis coach.

The competition has exceeded all expectations - even the most positive. Look at the pressure Geelong is putting on the AFL to get a licence. What does that tell you. It says clubs do not want to miss out on what will clearly become a huge revenue stream.

The AFL now need to invest in player payments to ensure the talant remains on the park and continues to improve

The 10k they are bing paid was based on a guess about how things would go. Well it rates and the sposers are rollingin. there is enough money to play the women properly and ensure they can train throughout the year.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,819]

17 hours ago, CBDees said:

It seems crazy that the eight teams all have to disband for ten months immediately after the GF next week and go back and play suburban football with amateur coaches and no exposure. Surely the competition could continue in the background without being too much of a threat by fragmenting the support base and thereby allowing the girls (like Daisy) to become professional. Personally, I enjoy watching the girls and I am sure that they would grow the code and grow the sponsorship to pay their own way! 

I think the basis of finishing the AFLW comp about now, was more about allowing the top players to return to their local comps and thus furthering the development and depth of the talent pool at the local/second tier level.  I personally think that is the right call and really in the best long term interests of the women's game.

[Lucifers Hero 39,747]

While not directly related to pay equality there is some meddling by the AFL that doesn't bode well.

All AFLW player contracts were for one only year and will shortly expire so all players can move clubs, including marquis players.  Also, it seems the AFL will mandate that 8 players need to be moved from each list - either traded or delisted. 

This just doesn't make sense to me as there are only 28 players on a list and each week a club fields 22 players (16+6 i/c) so effectively dropping at least 2 regular players. If they want to give more players a chance to play AFLW then make the lists bigger.  28 is ridiculously small - look at the decimation at Freo AFLW from injuries. 

And surely it isn't fair to delist players who after only one season have been injured or not settled enough to show their talents. 

The benefit of enforced high player turnover and one year contracts will only be for the powerful and wealthy clubs by them poaching talent with lucrative jobs at their club/sponsors or other promotional roles (which at this stage appear to be outside the AFL standard pay).  So a club can use top draft picks, develop talent only to have them poached!  There will be trades but we all know that a good player for a good draft pick are rarely equal  Some promotional jobs are clearly legit (Pearce, Harris, Hope etc) but the high turnover and one year contracts just encourages 'jobs for the girls' designed simply to get a player to a club. 

The AFL should allow longer contracts so that a club can keep good players for a few years and stagger the end of contracts to reduce risk of losing a lot of talent all at once.

The AFLW has the potential to be a fabulous competition.  It won't be if AFL meddling, club politics and powerbrokers start exerting their might. 

Rant over...

Edited March 19, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Grapeviney 9,717]

On 18/03/2017 at 3:02 PM, leave it to deever said:

When they play in shorts as tight as Warrick Cappers then maybe. Is this descrimination?

 

This is a first and final warning to you and anyone else who wants to post this kind of rubbish in here - it won't be tolerated. 

It's not 'descrimination' but it is disrespectful to our players, who don't deserve to be objectified with lame jokes from a social dinosaur. 

[leave it to deever 17,511]

On 3/19/2017 at 4:56 PM, Grapeviney said:

This is a first and final warning to you and anyone else who wants to post this kind of rubbish in here - it won't be tolerated. 

It's not 'descrimination' but it is disrespectful to our players, who don't deserve to be objectified with lame jokes from a social dinosaur. 

Whoa gv you jumped the gun a tad there. My point was that womens afl isnt as marketable or is marketed the same as mens.

The mens Afl has had millions and millions of dollars spent along with 1000s of angles and catches.

The reference to Capper was to sex it up and make it more commercial and not from a lets perve at women standpoint which you projected with your cries of objectification.  I can understand the leap I guess but you are dead wrong. I have watched the wafl and enjoyed the standard of skill and talent.  Don't be so quick to judge.

[Grapeviney 9,717]

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

. My point was that womens afl isnt as marketable or is marketed the same as mens.

The mens Afl has had millions and millions of dollars spent along with 1000s of angles and catches.

 

Yeah nah..

Unless you were typing in invisible ink, you didn't say any of those things or make any of those points. 

Nice try though.