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Training - Friday 10th February, 2017 at Olympic Park


Drunkn167

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There are a few posts here I fundamentally disagree with. Viney, petracca, melksham, harmes were not good. Cannot believe one poster saying viney was in everything. He was not, looked totally emotionally spent and was quiet as a mouse. Im sure I will get howled down for this, but if you are wanting an honest appraisal this is it.

Overall I wasn't encouraged about our prospects for this year, but I'm absolutely prepared to wait and see. Intraclubs are strange things. Was the offense poor, or the defence good? Was the gamestyle inhibited as all knew what was happening in advance? How much did the team balance/casey boys mess with it?

Too hard to tell. 

Oh - and I expect Wagner to play a few games. To be honest, other than experience I dont think he is miles away from Hibberd.

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20 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

There are a few posts here I fundamentally disagree with. Viney, petracca, melksham, harmes were not good. Cannot believe one poster saying viney was in everything. He was not, looked totally emotionally spent and was quiet as a mouse. Im sure I will get howled down for this, but if you are wanting an honest appraisal this is it.

Overall I wasn't encouraged about our prospects for this year, but I'm absolutely prepared to wait and see. Intraclubs are strange things. Was the offense poor, or the defence good? Was the gamestyle inhibited as all knew what was happening in advance? How much did the team balance/casey boys mess with it?

Too hard to tell. 

Oh - and I expect Wagner to play a few games. To be honest, other than experience I dont think he is miles away from Hibberd.

Agree Harmes, Melksham were not very good. Petracca did not get a lot but as always what he did was eye catching. Viney was in everything (would not be surprised if he led the possessions) but his impact was negligible and his execution was poor. How you can attribute his performance in a match sim to being emotionally spent and an potentially early validation as to being given the captaincy too early is a significant stretch.

Edited by big_red_fire_engine
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15 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Agree Harmes, Melksham were not very good. Petracca did not get a lot but as always what he did was eye catching. Viney was in everything (would not be surprised if he led the possessions) but his impact was negligible and his execution was poor. How you can attribute his performance in a match sim to being emotionally spent and an potentially early validation as to being given the captaincy too early is a significant stretch.

Fair call, I will admit I was looking for it as I really, really dont like the decision or how it has been handled.

I agree his impact negligible and execution poor is a more objective assessment. I choose to put it down to the decision as I expect better of our reigning b&f winner. What do you put it down to? As you point out, none of us could possibly know.

The fact of the matter is that this is now the reality for Jack. Every dip in his performance, somone will attribute it to the captaincy. This is exactly why it is too early for him to get the job - he is still a little inconsistent and has a number of deficiencies in his game. The expectation on him in the last two years was to come in as a young player and have an impact - he did that. The expectation on him now is to play very well every single week withouf fail. Like Jones does. Jack is not ready for that. 

 

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9 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Fair call, I will admit I was looking for it as I really, really dont like the decision or how it has been handled.

I agree his impact negligible and execution poor is a more objective assessment. I choose to put it down to the decision as I expect better of our reigning b&f winner. What do you put it down to? As you point out, none of us could possibly know.

The fact of the matter is that this is now the reality for Jack. Every dip in his performance, somone will attribute it to the captaincy. This is exactly why it is too early for him to get the job - he is still a little inconsistent and has a number of deficiencies in his game. The expectation on him in the last two years was to come in as a young player and have an impact - he did that. The expectation on him now is to play very well every single week withouf fail. Like Jones does. Jack is not ready for that. 

 

The first highlight is dumb thinking.

The second is an expectation every player should have.

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1 minute ago, Moonshadow said:

The first highlight is dumb thinking.

The second is an expectation every player should have.

Say what you want but if he plays poorly, I guarantee it will happen.  If he plays poorly enough, it wont just be on here but in the media too. 

And no, the expectation on our young players is not to play very well every single week. If it was, many of them would not have gotten a game in the last couple of years. 

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6 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

The first highlight is dumb thinking.

The second is an expectation every player should have.

It might be dumb thinking 'Moon' but that won't stop it happening and it will add pressure.

I think it was a dumb move by a first year coach trying to stamp his imprint.

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47 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

How did Maxey go Chief?

I heard he had a few shots on goal but....

 

Liked that.

Gawny took a few towering marks, much like he does in real games, but looked like he was holding a fair bit back. Showed up Spencer's (who moves like Himey) inability to take marks around the ground and easily outplayed him in the ruck duels, so much so Gawny was made to swap between the 'white' jumper and the 'blue' just about every time he came off for a rest to ensure both midfields had a decent crack.  

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I'm not too sure we should be concerned with form dips from a young kid who won our BF last year and lost it by a vote the year before. Jack will lead our club for the next 7 years. Why not get Chunk to transition JV into the role in his 30th year so that Jonesy can focus on his footy in 2018 and beyond???

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3 minutes ago, Tough Kent said:

I'm not too sure we should be concerned with form dips for a young kid who won our BF last year and lost it by a vote the year before. Jack will lead our club for the next 7 years. Why not get Chunk to transition JV into the role in his 30th year so that Jonesy can focus on his footy in 2018 and beyond???

I get the feeling that that is the coach's thinking. Goodwin obviously thinks Viney has the temperament to be able to handle the responsibility and wants to let him grow into it with Jones there to guide him and act as a safety net.

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34 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Say what you want but if he plays poorly, I guarantee it will happen.  If he plays poorly enough, it wont just be on here but in the media too. 

And no, the expectation on our young players is not to play very well every single week. If it was, many of them would not have gotten a game in the last couple of years. 

Jack does not have great disposal by foot at the best of times so first kind of hit out of the year I am not surprised he looked rusty. I would argue Jacks weekly form over the past two years has been highly consistent, in fact I would argue more consistently high than Nathan's. Jacks only dip really was the weeks after return from his broken hand. His Bluey this year and nearly winning it after a missing a large portion of games in 2015 I would suggest support this.

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Some very good reports from despicable, Dee Spencer and Brfe, apologies to others who also add value that I've missed.

The only point I'll add is my biggest take away was Jordan Lewis.  He plays at another level that our players need to aspire to.  He always sees the next play before he gets the ball and is able to perfectly execute the first option because he already knows what is is.  He knows where all his team mates are and is able to move the ball so quickly with precision.  Our other good players are intent on winning the ball and then seeking the option.  For Lewis it's all one seamless action. This happened repeatedly and stood out to me.  I think he'll help transform our ball movement playing a more outside role than he did a Hawthorn.

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Thanks to all for the reports

I don't think you can take much out of a scratch match in Febuary

Even the next three weeks won't see our best side as new players will get games they might not deserve, players will be tried in new positions,players will be rested

 

Can't wait until the real stuff.......Every year family and friends have a tipping competition, where you have to tip your winners for the WHOLE year and submitted before the first game.    Very hard to do this year.

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47 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

Thanks to all for the reports

I don't think you can take much out of a scratch match in Febuary

Even the next three weeks won't see our best side as new players will get games they might not deserve, players will be tried in new positions,players will be rested

 

Can't wait until the real stuff.......Every year family and friends have a tipping competition, where you have to tip your winners for the WHOLE year and submitted before the first game.    Very hard to do this year.

Perfectly put Bossdog, the main things on show were the physicality and the fact they were still working hard 2 and 1/2 hours in, in hot conditions, and some players stood out and showed they are in form, have developed or are Jordan Lewis

I thought Hogan spent the match sim going anywhere except near the ball, same with Watts, give the other forwards a chance to shine?

Pleased to see JKH running around looking fit, deserved the bake he got from everybody for blazing away and Dion Johnstone showed something, Jeffy still has them covered at the moment

Bernie Vince was good at the back, Salem looked really sharp and classy, Oliver is developing at an alarming rate, Brayshaw nice little cameo, Frost, same as Oliver, full pre season can do wonders, thought the Weed looked more confident in his work

Congratulated Jack Viney, also spoke to Todd, only slightly proud

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28 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I only saw the last quarter or so but I was far more impressed with the skills and ball movement than that of intra club games in the past.

Each to their own.

Agree 100%. Far better than anything dished up in intra-clubs in previous years. Anyone expecting clean, crisp skills at this time of year when all your list is playing apart from the injured and you've got a handful of VFL players running around is kidding themselves. The boys were trying new things. They're rusty. The ball carrier was really pressured. I thought there were great signs last night.

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Intra clubs are hard because they all know the game plan e.g. The defense know what the forwards are going to do and vice versa.

More of a fitness hit out and exersize in ball movement , trying out plays in match conditions.

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26 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Intra clubs are hard because they

... include the bottom half of the list and top up players from Casey.  It's a different story when something close to the best 22 are out there.

Highlights for me:

  • JKH, who I'd all but written off last year looks like he can become a good AFL footballer.
  • Sad for ANB.  Always thought he was limited and nothing seems to have changed.
  • Weid looked a lot more competitive than last year.
  • Salem will be a force if he can stay fit.
  • Oliver confirmed he will be elite
  • I started by saying at the beginning of the session yesterday that Hunt would be AA.  I amended that by the end of the session by saying he'd captain the AA team.  He's great
  • I thought AVB looked good.
  • Unlike others I thought Pencil was good and whilst Gawn is our ruckman Pencil is a very good back up.
  • Was it just me or was Trengove prolific in the first ground drill but struggled in the match sim? 
  • I thought the physicality was reserved.  Competitive for the ball but gentle on tackling.  Good thing that.
  • There is a thread about whether Brayshaw and Oliver can play in the same team.  That thread wouldn't be started now.  Brayshaw looked great.
  • Frost will play and will show himself to be an inspired trade by Todd and his team.
  • I think those predicting the demise of Bernie Vince are seduced by youth.  Bernie has much to offer and looked good.
  • Those thinking DJ is close to selection are off the mark.  JG and JKH well ahead of him.
  • Stretch will play seniors when fit.  Poised, efficient and works very hard.  250 game player because he's so professional.
  • We have lots of players now capable of playing good quality AFL footy.

Nice hit out.  Dancing with your sister stuff.  Hope Tyson gets fit soon.  He's very important to us.

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13 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

 

  • Was it just me or was Trengove prolific in the first ground drill but struggled in the match sim? 
  • I thought the physicality was reserved.  Competitive for the ball but gentle on tackling.  

 

No it wasn't just you, Meggs thought exactly the same and yes the tackling was noticeably less physical than some of the training drills... 

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8 hours ago, The Chief said:

Enjoyed watching last night, always amazed at the extreme level of fitness AFL players have to reach.  Amongst others things, two key takeouts for me:

1. While Weiderman's confidence and physicality has definitely improved, if we're picking a team purely to win and not to develop, Pederson has him covered at the moment. 

2. Maybe a bit unfair, but after the intra game when everyone was obviously knackered, watching the Jack Watts & AVB wrestling/leading drill, Jack still doesn't fully extend his arms in 1:1 marking contests and use his height advantage, with AVB easily and repeatedly punching the ball away from Jack.

I noticed the same thing too. Repeatedly, Jack did dome nice early bodywork and looked set to take a mark but didn't take it arms outstretched, and AVB was able to get a fist in. Hats off to AVB though, he is a fierce competitor. 

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Someone at the game told me Melksham was good and looked pretty classy on the oval.  I then read that that was wrong and that he was no good.  That sums up footy threads.

Interestingly, in Goodwin's take from the game the first player he mentions in a positive sense is Melksham.   So I think I'll back my guy.

One thing I know is that while supporters go ape over a skill error or two the coaches don't.   They know they'll happen and look at the bigger picture, i.e. competitiveness, positioning, decision making, etc.

I do rate the opinions of Vogon, Deespencer, BRFE, and some others and enjoy their contribution. 

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1 hour ago, Chelly said:

Does anyone know if the training schedule reverts back to the normal session times next week? 

I'd like to know this as well. Will be in Melbourne early next week and a morning training session on Wednesday would be perfect.

Thanks to all those who contributed reports. It's greatly appreciated.

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