WELCOME TO THE MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - JORDAN LEWIS

[Skuit 9,339]

I recall it was said when we signed Lewis that we would be altering his role slightly. Was there any further clarification on this? Any ideas what we might have in mind?

[Deestroy All 14,262]

 

I recall it was said when we signed Lewis that we would be altering his role slightly. Was there any further clarification on this? Any ideas what we might have in mind?

Backup ruck/forward.

[Whispering_Jack 28,027]

 

Name a high profile player who has been honest with their intentions prior to year end.  Danger, Buddy, Chip, Scully, O'Meara.

Scully is no different to all of them, was much younger and the subject of huge media pressure because GWS was going to be a first year club.  Scully's decision was NOT just about money, it was as much about us as a club and those that don't recognize that are silly.  We were dysfunctional.  And I know one shouldn't Pizz on a statue, but the hounding of Scully by Jim was a  meaningful factor in Scully's decision to move.

He left, he made a totally logical decision to benefit himself and his family, we were over compensated and those that still hate are just haters and in my view misguided and silly.

Scully is a large reason we are so bullish today and whilst he didn't do it for that reason I hold not one dot of malice towards him. 

 

Do you have a source for the claims that

(a) Stynes hounded Scully and 

(b) the "hounding" was a meaningful factor in his decision to leave?

[Ted Lasso 17,022]

 

I recall it was said when we signed Lewis that we would be altering his role slightly. Was there any further clarification on this? Any ideas what we might have in mind?

Inside mid/wing/half back would be my guess.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

 

Do you have a source for the claims that

(a) Stynes hounded Scully and 

(b) the "hounding" was a meaningful factor in his decision to leave?

Yes I do. 

[Members' Wing 1,106]

 

Yes I do. 

How dare the club president want an honest answer so that we could prepare for the future.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

 

How dare the club president want an honest answer so that we could prepare for the future.

It's actually not the Presidents role. I imagine Bartlett didn't play a role in Jesse's contract extension but left it to list management and the footy department. 

There is ample discussion on the role of a Board in earlier DL threads and for reference just compare how the club is run now compared to prior Boards. 

BTW do you think Buddy, Chip and Paddy were honest about their intentions? I don't really want to go here and I'm surprised Jack asked the question days after my post and if he did want to know the answer why he didn't PM me. 

[Whispering_Jack 28,027]

 

Yes I do. 

Care to share it.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

 

Care to share it.

Clearly not.

[Whispering_Jack 28,027]

I'm not surprised and I don't believe the story because I have a different understanding - one that came directly from the horse's mouth.

On 31 August 2011, I attended the Fawkner Hotel and with about 20 others, had dinner with four members of Melbourne's team - Tom Scully, Cale Morton, Stef Martin and Max Gawn. It was the week before the last game of the season, one which he eventually withdrew from due to general soreness.

For a time during the evening, I sat next to Tom and in our discussions (heard by others), made him aware that my family had a business connection going back several years with his father's roofing company (which he had recently resigned from as a Director). He seemed nervous and distracted during the evening, often checking his mobile phone.

Tom spoke about the lingering issues that he had with his knee that year and said he felt that they were all manageable and that he would be over them after the break in between seasons. 

On the subject of his future, he stated that he had not been involved in any negotiations with Melbourne or anyone else. He told me that he had not "seen any offers" but that after the game on Sunday, he would sit down with his management to decide between then and the B & F in a few weeks' time.

I asked him how he felt the club had treated him in the circumstances and he said he couldn't be happier. They hadn't put any pressure on him and were aware that he would be talking to his management at the end of the season which he said had been his position since March.

On Jimmy Stynes who had been fighting cancer for two years and was extremely ill at the time, he said he was full of admiration and he had no issues with Jim's comments earlier in the year. He said he didn't even believe they were directed specifically at him. 

For the record, I thought after that night that Scully was gone. I respected fully that his decision was a difficult one but, on the figures I had heard that he was being offered, there was no real choice. His departure was announced about a week and a half later. 

Usually, I would be more than somewhat bemused that five years after the event, a story emerges that flies in the face of everything that I was told that night but I'm not any more because I've heard this sort of scuttlebutt before.

Several months after Scully departed, stories started emerging that he left the Demons' 2010 end of season trip to China because of the drinking culture of the players (Tom was apparently a teetotaler). At the time he returned, Phil Scully told my brother-in-law that he left early because of serious health issues involving a family member. 

When I hear allegations made about a dead man that he can't respond to, it brings out the cynic in me.

[jnrmac 19,245]

Snap.

[Moonshadow 16,363]

So Tom Scully isn't a liar, then???

Edited October 24, 2016 by Moonshadow

[TGR 1,367]

On 20/10/2016 at 10:41 AM, hemingway said:

Last para is the guts of the issue. Let's just call it honesty or lack thereof.  I don't blame Scully for going. It was not as if he just got a better offer. He was given an offer that was Huge. An offer to set himself up for life, injury or no injury. He was a young impressionable guy with older cunning men all around him, telling him what to do. Father and Sheedy to name the best or worst examples. And what the older wiser heads should have told young Tom is that it is always best to be upfront and honest with people. No one likes being lied to.  However, when we are young, we are inexperienced in life, we take risks, and we are easily influenced by peers and our elders. We take advice from others which is sometimes wrong. we make wrong decisions based on this advice.   It is not that Scully made the wrong decision, it is how he and his camp behaved and the perception created that he was not honest in his dealings.

So you and the football world would have preferred for Scully to announce his departure to another club 12 months before?

[C.Smoker Champion 40]

Jordan Lewis is a spiteful,sneaky,unsportsmanlike,niggling,scragging,nasty [censored].

Just what we lack.

Welcome aboard Jord.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

@Vogon Poetry has been made to look like a pill.  Not surprising, really.

[Scipio 5,868]

On 23 October 2016 at 6:52 PM, Skuit said:

I recall it was said when we signed Lewis that we would be altering his role slightly. Was there any further clarification on this? Any ideas what we might have in mind?

I think we'll probably see Lewis, Bernie and Jones rotate through the middle and across half back. Lewis and Vince in particular, as they're both great users of the ball and are very composed under pressure. That might also help push Hunt up to the wing.

[Binmans PA 26,369]

1 hour ago, Luther said:

I think we'll probably see Lewis, Bernie and Jones rotate through the middle and across half back. Lewis and Vince in particular, as they're both great users of the ball and are very composed under pressure. That might also help push Hunt up to the wing.

I'd be inclined to agree with all of that, except I'd try Jones across half forward instead. Play to his strengths. IMO, he's not the great kick, but his attack on the man and the ball is first rate. That could also prolong his career too once our younger guys take over. In 2018-2019, the guys that should be playing the majority of minutes in the middle are Oliver, Viney, Tyson, Brayshaw, Petracca and even Salem. Jones should play a little time there, but I think he's going to have to play half forward and half back the majority of time.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

18 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I'm not surprised and I don't believe the story

I'm pleased you've offered a different view.  Without disclosing my sources I will say they consisted of Directors of the Club, FD personnel with whom I worked and players I'd known for a number of years and still see. There were a number of similar accounts.

If you choose to believe someone who most believe lied to the club about his intentions for the best part of a year sobeit. Your comments that "he stated that he had not been involved in any negotiations with Melbourne or anyone else" were clearly wrong. If you think he would have confided in you at the dinner I think you're being a little naïve.

You know the role I played at the club and I'm surprised you wanted clarification of my source and expected me to disclose them. I hope in the quotation above you're not suggesting I'm lying.

[Whispering_Jack 28,027]

3 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I'm pleased you've offered a different view.  Without disclosing my sources I will say they consisted of Directors of the Club, FD personnel with whom I worked and players I'd known for a number of years and still see. There were a number of similar accounts.

If you choose to believe someone who most believe lied to the club about his intentions for the best part of a year sobeit. Your comments that "he stated that he had not been involved in any negotiations with Melbourne or anyone else" were clearly wrong. If you think he would have confided in you at the dinner I think you're being a little naïve.

You know the role I played at the club and I'm surprised you wanted clarification of my source and expected me to disclose them. I hope in the quotation above you're not suggesting I'm lying.

The thread is about Jordan Lewis so if you don't mind I'll begin my response by referring to him. 

Lewis is 30 years old. He has 264 games of AFL football behind him and has played in four premierships. He is mature, a family man and handled himself with assurance and self-confidence over his decision to leave Hawthorn. I think the football world gave him great credit for this and he deserved it. Very few true Hawthorn supporters are going to argue with him about this or boo him when he runs out on the field against their team wearing a Melbourne jumper.

By contrast, Tom Scully was a mere kid at 20 on the night when the events I described took place. I don't have the slightest doubt that he wasn't being entirely open and frank with me during our conversation. I mentioned how nervous and distracted he seemed and how he often checked his mobile phone during the evening. This happened most when he was asked about the knee injury that had affected his season and about his future. I never believed for a minute his claim that he hadn't "seen any offers" and that he would sit down with his management to decide on his future after the game. That decision had been done and dusted for some time by then.

There were however, other parts of the conversations we had that night (and others were also taking part) during which the nervousness wasn't so apparent. He joked about Sam Blease having a big head, he talked about his family life and his experiences at the club including his respect for Jim Stynes. I'm prepared to accept what he said about those things as truthful. His obfuscations only came on the point of his future because he had a very good reason not to reveal the truth.

Tom Scully was about to leave Melbourne and I believe there was a single motivating factor behind the move - the money. I don't believe for a second that Stynes "hounded" him, nor do I believe he was involved in any conduct that constituted a "meaningful factor in Scully's decision to move". 

I stand completely by my point of view. The conversation took place in front of others including some of his teammates and I also had discussions with people involved at the club including a Board Member that reinforce my view.

I'm not surprised however, that you were told these stories. I'm not suggesting you lied but there were clear divisions of opinion at the time and there were those who had their reasons for pushing the self-serving line they gave you. There were people who had reason to dislike Jimmy - perhaps because he led the move to push them out of power. We're all too aware of the power struggles that blighted the club, causing great damage over too long a period that thankfully has now come to an end.

I'm puzzled however, that you think I'm being naive about this - "he stated that he had not been involved in any negotiations with Melbourne or anyone else". I think the statement was correct. The negotiations were conducted by his manager with his father looming large in the background. He was a 20 year old kid who wanted to play footy and while adults did the real dirty work for him, it wasn't only the Scully camp that had unclean hands in this.

That's why in the end, I'm happy that the thread is about Jordan Lewis and I'm clear in the knowledge that the club is heading in the right direction with people of his ilk in the foreground and a lot of very positive people in the background.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

3 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

The thread is about Jordan Lewis so if you don't mind I'll begin my response by referring to him. 

Lewis is 30 years old. He has 264 games of AFL football behind him and has played in four premierships. He is mature, a family man and handled himself with assurance and self-confidence over his decision to leave Hawthorn. I think the football world gave him great credit for this and he deserved it. Very few true Hawthorn supporters are going to argue with him about this or boo him when he runs out on the field against their team wearing a Melbourne jumper.

By contrast, Tom Scully was a mere kid at 20 on the night when the events I described took place. I don't have the slightest doubt that he wasn't being entirely open and frank with me during our conversation. I mentioned how nervous and distracted he seemed and how he often checked his mobile phone during the evening. This happened most when he was asked about the knee injury that had affected his season and about his future. I never believed for a minute his claim that he hadn't "seen any offers" and that he would sit down with his management to decide on his future after the game. That decision had been done and dusted for some time by then.

There were however, other parts of the conversations we had that night (and others were also taking part) during which the nervousness wasn't so apparent. He joked about Sam Blease having a big head, he talked about his family life and his experiences at the club including his respect for Jim Stynes. I'm prepared to accept what he said about those things as truthful. His obfuscations only came on the point of his future because he had a very good reason not to reveal the truth.

Tom Scully was about to leave Melbourne and I believe there was a single motivating factor behind the move - the money. I don't believe for a second that Stynes "hounded" him, nor do I believe he was involved in any conduct that constituted a "meaningful factor in Scully's decision to move". 

I stand completely by my point of view. The conversation took place in front of others including some of his teammates and I also had discussions with people involved at the club including a Board Member that reinforce my view.

I'm not surprised however, that you were told these stories. I'm not suggesting you lied but there were clear divisions of opinion at the time and there were those who had their reasons for pushing the self-serving line they gave you. There were people who had reason to dislike Jimmy - perhaps because he led the move to push them out of power. We're all too aware of the power struggles that blighted the club, causing great damage over too long a period that thankfully has now come to an end.

I'm puzzled however, that you think I'm being naive about this - "he stated that he had not been involved in any negotiations with Melbourne or anyone else". I think the statement was correct. The negotiations were conducted by his manager with his father looming large in the background. He was a 20 year old kid who wanted to play footy and while adults did the real dirty work for him, it wasn't only the Scully camp that had unclean hands in this.

That's why in the end, I'm happy that the thread is about Jordan Lewis and I'm clear in the knowledge that the club is heading in the right direction with people of his ilk in the foreground and a lot of very positive people in the background.

Brilliant! 

[Dr evil 1,185]

Tom Scully was a 20 year old who was offered an amazing amount of money so i never thought he would do anything but go, i bet if you offered the same money to Brayshaw, Oliver or Petracca they'd take it also. 

Jordan Lewis on the other hand is an awesome pick up for us, i can see him being a real leader for the club next year and a huge on field asset, should be in our best handful of players right from the word go

[Satyriconhome 9,993]

On 24/10/2016 at 9:01 AM, Vogon Poetry said:

It's actually not the Presidents role. I imagine Bartlett didn't play a role in Jesse's contract extension but left it to list management and the footy department. 

There is ample discussion on the role of a Board in earlier DL threads and for reference just compare how the club is run now compared to prior Boards. 

BTW do you think Buddy, Chip and Paddy were honest about their intentions? I don't really want to go here and I'm surprised Jack asked the question days after my post and if he did want to know the answer why he didn't PM me. 

I know Chip was, only from conversations I had with him, if as you state you have sources within the club, you will know that this was the opinion of most, as Chip invested in the club right until the end of the season, then went away and decided which way to go

 

18 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

 If you think he would have confided in you at the dinner I think you're being a little naïve.

You are also asking us to believe that people within the club confided in you, I get enough grief from the conversations I have with players, but being 'trusted' I get a lot of straight answers to questions, not all of which I put on here

[Willmoy1947 3,809]

7 hours ago, jeck wartz said:

Tom Scully was a 20 year old who was offered an amazing amount of money so i never thought he would do anything but go, i bet if you offered the same money to Brayshaw, Oliver or Petracca they'd take it also. 

Jordan Lewis on the other hand is an awesome pick up for us, i can see him being a real leader for the club next year and a huge on field asset, should be in our best handful of players right from the word go

Paragraph two yes, paragraph one no. My opinion, and the reason being they are smarter and more loyal and far different circumstances.

[Binmans PA 26,369]

9 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I know Chip was, only from conversations I had with him, if as you state you have sources within the club, you will know that this was the opinion of most, as Chip invested in the club right until the end of the season, then went away and decided which way to go

 

You are also asking us to believe that people within the club confided in you, I get enough grief from the conversations I have with players, but being 'trusted' I get a lot of straight answers to questions, not all of which I put on here

You've been told about this Saty, time and again. I know you like to live in la-la-land, but there's no way AFL footballers go around confessing their true intentions to random strangers who watch training sessions.

That said, I think it's more likely Frawley was pushed by us and probably would have been happy to stay in the end.

[Demon Disciple 11,086]

17 minutes ago, A F said:

That said, I think it's more likely Frawley was pushed by us and probably would have been happy to stay in the end.

I'm not sure if he was pushed, but once we were told by the AFL what the likely compo would be, we weren't hesitant in letting him go.