Changes vs Carlton

[stuie 7,374]

3 minutes ago, rjay said:

Hogan is our best forward, he draws the oppositions best defender and they get numbers back on him. This should open the game out for our other scoring options.

I think sometimes we have a tendency to bomb the ball into him or be a bit too Hogan focussed. We need to learn to use his strengths and work better moving the ball in with multiple options and lowering the eyes.

It's time to start using Hogan & Weideman and building the forward structure with these 2 and Watts.

There is no point in him going back to the VFL unless we want to be a "rabble without a plan"...Collingwood, Richmond.

I'm not saying he should be dropped, I'm just saying if he ends up going back to the VFL for a game or two to work on certain things, it's not the end of the world, but rather it's just a normal part of development. It's not his talent that he needs to work on, but rather his attitude, work rate and defensive pressure. It's not all about him, it's not just about the rest of the team having to adjust to him, he's a part of the team and should be treated no differently to anyone else.

 

[jackaub 1,402]

12 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I will pick you up on the obvious contradiction - when Hogan plays, how can the forward look congested when you criticize him for running too far up the ground ?

There has been some criticism of him not kicking enough goals and i do see him pushing up the ground. The criticism of him running up the ground should be leveled at the coaches as he, in all likelyhood, is playing to instruction. He was poor last week and still took 6 marks - some around the centre of the ground. 

I think Hogan looks much better when he is on the move and I still believe he will be a better CHF than a full forward. I dont worry about him not kicking bags of goals - although he should nail the goals that he missed last week.

Hogan is our best forward, he draws the oppositions best defender and they get numbers back on him. This should open the game out for our other scoring options.

Maybe thats how Nuts

[Copuchas 758]

if it's wet (likely to be to at least some extent), don't anticipate seeing the Weed.  Casey have had a lot of wet weather football this year and that's been challenging for Sam as you'd expect.  Pedo's bigger body will be the order of the day.

 

[Old Bear 388]

Don't see Hogan as 100 goal a season fwd

See him more like Pavlich able to play multiple rolls

[Vipercrunch 2,820]

I'm against dropping Hogan as I think a lot of the forwardline problems stem from poor delivery (therefor the whole team to learn with Hogan there) BUT I really don't understand the angst against dropping someone who is out of form and not performing at their best.  Dropping isn't always a punishment and it's not the end of someones career.  If the best thing for a player is to drop him back to regain form or better understand his role, then so be it.  If any player has a bad run of games, all possible corrective measures need to be considered regardless of reputation, talent and the dreaded "potential". 

[pineapple dee 2,892]

3 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

 

Thats called being diplomatic, ie. media training.

Hogan has had a terrible month and we didnt miss him at all vs Hawks.

Of course he's being diplomatic but there is a lot of truth to what he's saying too.

Even if hes up the ground and not kicking goals, he's linking up applying pressure and adding a piece to the puzzle. He's a danger to the opposition wherever he is and that's allowing others' to come in and play their part.

[Dante 2,705]

Few things, if I was the full back I couldn't care how many marks the full forward took if they were on the wing or half back line.

If Hogan wants to play CHF then he should be kicking the ball in to the forwards who are doing the FF and FP positions, he's not doing that at the moment.

He needs to get the ball moving when he's up the ground and takes a mark, he's taking forever to get rid of the ball.  If it was Grimes or Trenners doing the same thing there would be mass calls for his/their dropping.

I'm sure the coaches have this under control and I'm not calling for him to be dropped, just pointing out some observations.

[Gator 17,261]

I doubt anyone is against dropping a player in the right circumstances, but it's folly to even consider dropping our best forward, who takes the opposition's best defender, is virtually never out-marked and creates opportunities to either crumb goals, reset with the ball locked in our forward 50 or clunk a mark and line-up for goal.

Hogan isn't in great form, but he's performing a valuable role.  Sometimes you support your best forward rather than undervalue what they're bringing to the table.

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, ProDee said:

I doubt anyone is against dropping a player in the right circumstances, but it's folly to even consider dropping our best forward, who takes the opposition's best defender, is virtually never out-marked and creates opportunities to either crumb goals...

And hasn't kicked a goal since round 17...

 

[Satyriconhome 10,397]

4 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

 

Thats called being diplomatic, ie. media training.

Hogan has had a terrible month and we didnt miss him at all vs Hawks.

Absolute rubbish, you ask Jack Viney a question, he answers.........just because it doesn't agree with your view........I have asked a few of the players about the team at present......main mantra is "you don't play the role assigned to you, you don't play", Hogan gets picked, that will do me

[stuie 7,374]

13 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Absolute rubbish, you ask Jack Viney a question, he answers.........just because it doesn't agree with your view........I have asked a few of the players about the team at present......main mantra is "you don't play the role assigned to you, you don't play", Hogan gets picked, that will do me

Soooooooo our leading goal kickers role is now not to kick goals?

 

[DubDee 24,724]

9 minutes ago, stuie said:

Soooooooo our leading goal kickers role is now not to kick goals?

 

you're right, he is our leading goal kicker.  this year and was last year.

I agree.  keep him in

[PaulRB 6,305]

Love it! All this hand wringing about Hogan is a sure sign he's going to kick 7...

Good job guys. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, stuie said:

 not saying he should be dropped, I'm just saying if he ends up going back to the VFL for a game or two to work on certain things, it's not the end of the world, but rather it's just a normal part of development. It's not his talent that he needs to work on, but rather his attitude, work rate and defensive pressure. It's not all about him, it's not just about the rest of the team having to adjust to him, he's a part of the team and should be treated no differently to anyone else.

 

 

1 hour ago, S_T said:

I'm against dropping Hogan as I think a lot of the forwardline problems stem from poor delivery (therefor the whole team to learn with Hogan there) BUT I really don't understand the angst against dropping someone who is out of form and not performing at their best.  Dropping isn't always a punishment and it's not the end of someones career.  If the best thing for a player is to drop him back to regain form or better understand his role, then so be it.  If any player has a bad run of games, all possible corrective measures need to be considered regardless of reputation, talent and the dreaded "potential". 

Watts went to Casey for a few games at one point recently. Not a big deal. Was just a part of his learning curve and development along the journey.

Success will come to those who are determined and can adjust/work on their shortcomimgs while pushing their strengths even harder.

If the FD are considering Weids for Hogan it would need to be this week as there's no way you would want him coming in cold for a big match against The Cats at Skilled if it ends up being the block buster we all hope for.

Hogan might be able to adjust and be swung in for Weids in the final round against the Cats (if Nth lose and needed) but not the other way IMO

[binman 42,145]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

I doubt anyone is against dropping a player in the right circumstances, but it's folly to even consider dropping our best forward, who takes the opposition's best defender, is virtually never out-marked and creates opportunities to either crumb goals, reset with the ball locked in our forward 50 or clunk a mark and line-up for goal.

Hogan isn't in great form, but he's performing a valuable role.  Sometimes you support your best forward rather than undervalue what they're bringing to the table.

Spot on. I shake my head at any suggestion they might drop him. It wouldn't even come into the coaches thinking. Not for a second.

We have a slim chance to make finals and to do we need to win both games. So they will pick the side that gives us the greatest chance of winning. And if he is over his illness they will pick Hogan. Ipso bloody facto the coaches, highly paid professionals all, consider him to be an important part of the puzzle and that we are more likely to win with him in it. 

Drop Hogan? sheesh.

[Adam The God 29,666]

Hogan needs to work on areas of his game, but he needs to do that at AFL level and as a few have pointed out, he still takes the best 1 or 2 defenders to stop him. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 minutes ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

Hogan needs to work on areas of his game, but he needs to do that at AFL level and as a few have pointed out, he still takes the best 1 or 2 defenders to stop him. 

Has to work on that kicking action over summer though Adam. If he doesnt then the Op will not necessarily double team or put their best on him for much longer.

[Satyriconhome 10,397]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Soooooooo our leading goal kickers role is now not to kick goals?

 

We are not back in the 70's our supposedly best midfielder was tagged last week and somebody else stepped up   if Hogan competes and brings the ball to ground and creates opportunities for other players   he is playing his role  as he grows and matures he will kick goal or goals each game, doesn't matter if he doesn't coz we have goalkickers on every line now which is the way it should be

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, Satyriconhome said:

We are not back in the 70's our supposedly best midfielder was tagged last week and somebody else stepped up   if Hogan competes and brings the ball to ground and creates opportunities for other players   he is playing his role  as he grows and matures he will kick goal or goals each game, doesn't matter if he doesn't coz we have goalkickers on every line now which is the way it should be

Mate, he hasn't kicked a single goal since round 17 and has missed a few absolute gimmes. He's clearly out of form and Viney was doing what a leader does, protect his team mate. But hey, if you think our leading goal kicker's role is to not kick goals then... Well, I just don't even know anymore

 

[Demons11 6,758]

4 hours ago, jackaub said:

He is not currently our best forward. You cannot tell me he has been. he has bad habits that need to be eradicated from his  game.

 Given that I am sure he will become our best forward

I just think he is not getting anywhere near the best out of his talent at the moment and needs 

coaching and attitude modification where necesary. That is all.

Who is our best forward?

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Who is our best forward?

On form, Watts. Easily.

 

[Demons11 6,758]

Just now, stuie said:

On form, Watts. Easily.

 

Hogan even with his slight slump averages more goals and marks than Watts.  He also gets the best defender and his double teamed every week. 

Hogan has Watts covered.  

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, Demons11 said:

Hogan even with his slight slump averages more goals and marks than Watts.  He also gets the best defender and his double teamed every week. 

Hogan has Watts covered.  

Did you miss where I said "on form". Hogan hasn't kick a goal since round 17. Watts has won 2 games off his own boot in that time.

 

[Satyriconhome 10,397]

31 minutes ago, stuie said:

Mate, he hasn't kicked a single goal since round 17 and has missed a few absolute gimmes. He's clearly out of form and Viney was doing what a leader does, protect his team mate. But hey, if you think our leading goal kicker's role is to not kick goals then... Well, I just don't even know anymore

 

I prefer to see guys standing by themselves in the 50 because Hogan and Pedersen are keeping the defenders busy   Bugg, Brayshaw, Jetta, Tyson  teams expect us to look for Hogan when we don't we are getting easy goals    he'll start kicking them again   I expect to see him going through the midfield now and again next year     as long as we are kicking 100 points and he doesn't feature heavily on the scoresheet what is not to like

Edited August 19, 2016 by Satyriconhome

[jnrmac 19,931]

18 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Yeah, he had the wrong attitude.

With Gawn, he's probably the most popular player at the club.

Confirmation bias. Look. It. Up.

 

I didn't say he had the wriong attitude, muppet.

Speaking of bias perhpas you shouldn't introduce your own bias into my comments.