Should the AFL lead on Social Issues

[DV8 2,271]

21 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yeah great points. Just to clarify, I'm not saying the game changed perceptions by itself, but I think it was part of a cultural shift in how we look at the day itself.

One of the interesting points I've heard raised is that the "celebration" aspect has come about now that the generation coming through is one that has never come close to experiencing war in a personal way nor have they ever considered national service. I think that probably adds to why the footy has become such a focus, I'm not sure what else you would want people to do, obviously you can't just sit around acting contemplative all day.

I think the further we get away from personal connections with people involved, the more it becomes about the "ANZAC Spirit" and a "celebration" of Aussie tenacity,

rather than a sombre remembrance of lives lost. I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

 

I totally agree with the highlighted.

We should not celebrate aggression at others, & war.

 

This should be a remembrance of the sad loss of lives, on all sides.   So it can be kept in perspective.

22 minutes ago, stuie said:

Grandstanding? Is it grandstanding to stand up to your mates when they talk about women in a way they shouldn't? Or should you tell your wife/sister/daughter to go and tell them off? Cultural change comes from a shift in mindset from all, not from standing back and watching victims fight back.

 

Yes.  That post, sounds like its about you, stuie.

And you sound like a bully, the thing that needs to be stamped out in all people, females, males, & indifferents.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, DV8 said:

Yes.  That post, sounds like its about you, stuie.

And you sound like a bully, the thing that needs to be stamped out in all people, females, males, & indifferents.

If you think standing up for people who aren't able to do it for themselves is "bullying" then you're part of the silent majority who are the problem.

Change doesn't come from standing back and watching, as easy an option as that may be for some.

 

[Chris 2,892]

1 minute ago, DV8 said:

 

Yes.  That post, sounds like its about you, stuie.

And you sound like a bully, the thing that needs to be stamped out in all people, females, males, & indifferents.

I am glad not every one takes the stance you do that you stand behind the oppressed and persecuted and let them fight their own fight while you cheer them on. I would far prefer to be the one standing next to them saying clearly that I support them and will stand with them and fight the fight. That includes calling mates out, If they don't like then get stuffed. If you don't have standards for the people you keep company with then what standards do you have for yourself?

[Chris 2,892]

30 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yeah great points. Just to clarify, I'm not saying the game changed perceptions by itself, but I think it was part of a cultural shift in how we look at the day itself.

One of the interesting points I've heard raised is that the "celebration" aspect has come about now that the generation coming through is one that has never come close to experiencing war in a personal way nor have they ever considered national service. I think that probably adds to why the footy has become such a focus, I'm not sure what else you would want people to do, obviously you can't just sit around acting contemplative all day.

I think the further we get away from personal connections with people involved, the more it becomes about the "ANZAC Spirit" and a "celebration" of Aussie tenacity, rather than a sombre remembrance of lives lost. I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

 

Agree in general with this. To back up your comments all of the people I have found who think it is a celebration are younger than me (born post 1980), are generally older children, and generally didn't have a family member go to any of the wars. There is a definite disconnect at a personal level which may go back to their parents as well. Some of them even wouldn't watch a TV show like MASH because it glorified war, even though it does the exact opposite. It seems there are many people out there who think anything to do with war is a glorification of it and a celebration of it. That is true in some instances but rarely in anything recent outside of video games.

This generation needs to be taught that it is not something to celebrate and never will be, even celebrating the Aussie tenacity is off putting to me as we weren't the only ones with it and we had it anyway, with our without war.

I also don't think people should sit around being contemplative all day but care has to be taken to not turn a sombre and reflective event into a celebration of things it is not. Time may well kill ANZAC day and its true meaning but it shouldn't do so while we still have people fighting and dying in wars in our name, rightly or wrongly.

[Bossdog 2,002]

The AFL has so many themed rounds these day that they all merge into one.    There is Aboriginal Rd,  Breast Cancer round, Ice bath Rd, Multi cultural Rd. Womens Rd. Maddies Rd  ect, ect, ect

We seem to change our jumpers (all teams) to suit the particular rd.

I am aware of the causes these themes represent  but I go to the footy to forget about life's troubles for a couple of hours yet I can't even then, escape peoples woes.

I do like the respect of ANZAC day.    The youth of today should see what men and women of this country went through.

The AFL is not my consious.   I will decide what charities and causes I follow  

[DV8 2,271]

49 minutes ago, stuie said:

If you think standing up for people who aren't able to do it for themselves is "bullying" then you're part of the silent majority who are the problem.

Change doesn't come from standing back and watching, as easy an option as that may be for some.

 

Well, I never been accused of sitting on my hands when others are being bullied in front of me, accept by the bullies themselves, stue.  crying tears to whoever.

I never allow others to be put down or aggressed against, in my midst.  or even backwqard when running into fire & smoke filled areas to search for people who may be overcome by the event.

 

But you go right ahead stue, your the grandiose white knight on some horseback crusade, in this little pond.  you can be the voice like delta, all shiny as shyte.

Don't let me stop you pampering your ego, so the real people are left behind you.

55 minutes ago, Chris said:

I am glad not every one takes the stance you do that you stand behind the oppressed and persecuted and let them fight their own fight while you cheer them on. I would far prefer to be the one standing next to them saying clearly that I support them and will stand with them and fight the fight. That includes calling mates out, If they don't like then get stuffed. If you don't have standards for the people you keep company with then what standards do you have for yourself?

another who thinks balck & white, chris.

 

Those, the downtrodden, get nothing from crusaders like you.   Only you take it all for yourself,  leaving them back where they were, nowhere. 

They need support, not interference, except when it is out of hand.

[Chris 2,892]

5 minutes ago, DV8 said:

another who thinks balck & white, chris.

 

Those, the downtrodden, get nothing from crusaders like you.   Only you take it all for yourself,  leaving them back where they were, nowhere. 

They need support, not interference, except when it is out of hand.

You say they need support and you also say that you stand up for them when required. That is what Stuie and I are saying, you stand up and you fight when needed and you do so in support of the those you are fighting for, you don't fight for them if they are not willing to fight themselves. 

The other difference, and feel free to correct me if I misread this, is that you will fight for someone under direct attack, if you see a direct wrong you will stand against it. Stuie and I, again Stuie correct me if I am wrong, will both do the same, but we will also both call out the bulltish attitudes that prevail in society that lead to these type of instances. Preventative measures if you like. You will let this slide and keep quiet. 

Love it how you say they don't need interference just after telling us how you interfere/intervene. I am also not a crusader (if I was a crusader I would be alone or at the forefront of the discussion, that is miles from being the case), I most certainly don't do it for myself, and I do it in conversation and support of the people in my life who welcome this support, and every single one of them is appreciative.

[Return to Glory 8,435]

2 hours ago, drdrake said:

Must admit I'm involved at Grass level Football, Auskick, Juniors and Seniors.  The AFL and the suburban leagues come out with all the Social campaigns but really offer no support to local clubs.  I think most Local Footballers are so disconnected with the AFL players that what they do has little to no effect on their behaviour.  Young Kids yes they can but once you hit mid teens unless you are in the top percentage of kids you have no connection. Now with the VFL basically being an AFL seconds competition you second tear comp's in Victoria are basically your top division Suburban comps.

To me this is where time and money needs to be spent in the suburban competitions ensuring clubs are supported to at least try to influence people on the right path.  The volunteers at these clubs aren't skilled in dealing with Drugs, Domestic Violence and Gambling, jeez most clubs struggle to get people to run their club.  I commend Jim Bartell for coming out and growing a beard against domestic violence but how many clubs has he gone out to talk to the young males and try to influence them, maybe he is doing this and I'm sure he is but that is what the AFL needs to do if they want to take this social responsibility serious.

The stances the AFL take on these issues is lip service, that is all and it is about getting funding and grants and doing what is politically correct.  Putting on themed rounds doesn't get down to the grass roots and that is where you need to get the message across.

 

 

I'm inclined to agree Dr Drake but I don't think it's entirely straight forward. I had a little involvement across a couple of leagues and there is significant variation in how clubs operate and respond to social issues. Just a couple of points I'd like to add to the discussion:

• Social awareness and appropriate duty of care often starts with the make up of the administration of grassroots clubs. With the welcome increase in female participation I really hope comes an increase in women willing to take on key administration roles. Whatever you want to call it, it appears to create a positive community atmosphere. I admit this is anecdotal but I saw the positive impact strong women can make at a number of clubs. To this end, furthering the already existing links between football and netball should be encouraged.
• The role of the coach at both the under 18 and reserve level is critical, not just from an on-field perspective but in setting the tone for those players moving from adolescence to manhood (or womanhood as may be the case). For instance, there is a tough area of Frankston that had a strong 1st coach who played a significant role in changing the perception of the club over a fair period of time. He was needed and his arrival was timely (not sure if he's still there). The reserves coach, on the other hand, was a polar opposite and undermined much of the work being done. He brought with him a collection of half wits and, unfortunately, he was, for many of the younger players, their first involvement with a senior coach. Ultimately, appointments of coaches come from clubs but the various leagues across the country need more than sound bites, they need people on the ground. So yes, paying lip service is a problem for mine.

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

You say they need support and you also say that you stand up for them when required. That is what Stuie and I are saying, you stand up and you fight when needed and you do so in support of the those you are fighting for, you don't fight for them if they are not willing to fight themselves. 

The other difference, and feel free to correct me if I misread this, is that you will fight for someone under direct attack, if you see a direct wrong you will stand against it. Stuie and I, again Stuie correct me if I am wrong, will both do the same, but we will also both call out the bulltish attitudes that prevail in society that lead to these type of instances. Preventative measures if you like. You will let this slide and keep quiet. 

Love it how you say they don't need interference just after telling us how you interfere/intervene. I am also not a crusader (if I was a crusader I would be alone or at the forefront of the discussion, that is miles from being the case), I most certainly don't do it for myself, and I do it in conversation and support of the people in my life who welcome this support, and every single one of them is appreciative.

I didn't mention anything about being appreciative.   I have no doubt most would be appreciative.

 

A tree grows stronger in a windy circumstance, because it needs to.   Staking a tree doesn't allow it to grow as it needs, but may make it straight, like a splint holds a broken limb straight.

But are you truly helping them become more resilient, or are you staking them in your methods. 

And flattering your ego?

 

The point is to stand one step behind, as the safety net.   Not to fight the fight for them. 

Be a support, & allow them to grow.  Give them permission, but not pressure them, to grow.

 

[Chris 2,892]

10 minutes ago, DV8 said:

I didn't mention anything about being appreciative.   I have no doubt most would be appreciative.

 

A tree grows stronger in a windy circumstance, because it needs to.   Staking a tree doesn't allow it to grow as it needs, but may make it straight, like a splint holds a broken limb straight.

But are you truly helping them become more resilient, or are you staking them in your methods. 

And flattering your ego?

 

The point is to stand one step behind, as the safety net.   Not to fight the fight for them. 

Be a support, & allow them to grow.  Give them permission, but not pressure them, to grow.

 

I think we are actually very close in our thinking but just express it differently. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,739]

21 hours ago, Biffen said:

Maybe Wayne Carey and Sam Newman as Ambassadors to women.

Gary Ablett Snr as spokesman for mental health and drugs.

Sam Newman may be out of a job.  Fairfax are reporting that Nissan will pull the pin on The Footy Show at end of season. 

Sam has snookered himself and the show and they will need a new major sponsor.

And, it seems no one is watching anymore!  What a surprise, not!

Edited July 1, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[bing181 9,218]

The question isn't whether they should lead or not. Given the profile of the game, they already lead.

The question is whether they're prepared to take responsibility for leading.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

On 6/30/2016 at 3:33 PM, Sir Why You Little said:

 

I heard the other day that many food outlets at Etihad don't accept cash for food purchases. 

 

They take an arm, a leg and your first born instead.

Interesting forum topic though. Sometimes it feels like the afl should just shut up on certain things but as Stu, I think astutely pointed out, footy represents society so politics always gets into things.

Edited July 1, 2016 by leave it to deever
comment

[Biffen 12,943]

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Sam Newman may be out of a job.  Fairfax are reporting that Nissan will pull the pin on The Footy Show at end of season. 

Sam has snookered himself and the show and they will need a new major sponsor.

And, it seems no one is watching anymore!  What a surprise, not!

Sam will get another job making a complete c&*t of himself somewhere.

He is a master of his craft.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,238]

4 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Sam will get another job making a complete c&*t of himself somewhere.

He is a master of his craft.

Biffen, what the [censored] are you doing posting on such a sanctimonious thread? You must be lost!.

Some of the stuff I've read above almost sent me to the confessional. ( Although the last time I went there, grade six, the penance was so exquisitely horrendous that I vowed never again.)

[Fork 'em 6,983]

10 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Some of the stuff I've read above almost sent me to the confessional. ( Although the last time I went there, grade six, the penance was so exquisitely horrendous that I vowed never again.)

Stuie goes everyday.
Twice on Sundays.
To each their own I s'pose.

 

Edited July 1, 2016 by Fork 'em

[Biffen 12,943]

10 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Biffen, what the [censored] are you doing posting on such a sanctimonious thread? You must be lost!.

Some of the stuff I've read above almost sent me to the confessional. ( Although the last time I went there, grade six, the penance was so exquisitely horrendous that I vowed never again.)

You are beyond redemption Bitter but there is hope that i may see the error of my ways and walk amongst the Saintly and enlightened.

My reformation is nearly complete yet there is little hope for the depraved and carnal neanderthals who refuse to condone these abhorrent chauvinists.

Anyway,I must go to exercise my democratic rights.

Then I'm off to some mud wrestling.

[What 18,810]

The AFL is a sport of bogans, run by glorified bogans. Nobody ever has or ever will take them seriously on social issues. 

They should stick to what they do best - Americanising the game of Aussie Rules

[Biffen 12,943]

57 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

The AFL is a sport of bogans, run by glorified bogans. Nobody ever has or ever will take them seriously on social issues. 

They should stick to what they do best - Americanising the game of Aussie Rules

Well put.

May I add "glorified,polo-playing bogans."

[Gator 17,332]

20 hours ago, Bossdog said:

The AFL has so many themed rounds these day that they all merge into one.    There is Aboriginal Rd,  Breast Cancer round, Ice bath Rd, Multi cultural Rd. Womens Rd. Maddies Rd  ect, ect, ect

We seem to change our jumpers (all teams) to suit the particular rd.

I am aware of the causes these themes represent  but I go to the footy to forget about life's troubles for a couple of hours yet I can't even then, escape peoples woes.

I do like the respect of ANZAC day.    The youth of today should see what men and women of this country went through.

The AFL is not my consious.   I will decide what charities and causes I follow  

Well said.

I have no interest in the AFL being my moral compass.

[daisycutter 29,613]

15 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Well said.

I have no interest in the AFL being my moral compass.

precisely. that's what demonland is for

[Bitter but optimistic 22,238]

2 hours ago, Biffen said:

You are beyond redemption Bitter but there is hope that i may see the error of my ways and walk amongst the Saintly and enlightened.

My reformation is nearly complete yet there is little hope for the depraved and carnal neanderthals who refuse to condone these abhorrent chauvinists.

Anyway,I must go to exercise my democratic rights.

Then I'm off to some mud wrestling.

Who's getting your worthless support this time Biffen? Let me speculum. Drug Reform Party ...hmmm strong chance. Sex Party? .. Probably not because it would end up costing you money.

I'm thinking Shooters Party. Yes that would be it. You could person the barricades with your homeless mates. 

[Biffen 12,943]

15 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Who's getting your worthless support this time Biffen? Let me speculum. Drug Reform Party ...hmmm strong chance. Sex Party? .. Probably not because it would end up costing you money.

I'm thinking Shooters Party. Yes that would be it. You could person the barricades with your homeless mates. 

I nearly voted for a sex party but I looked around me and even that seemed depressing.

Next time I think I will go postal during the election .

[Red and Bluebeard 2,084]

On 01/07/2016 at 10:25 AM, Little Goffy said:

"Growing awareness" is a mixed bag.

The Tomb Raider movie really drastically increased awareness of the temple complexes of Angkor. 

Finding Nemo greatly increased awareness of clownfish.

And for ANZAC Day... It would take a fair bit of effort to convince me that there's been much real gain from the mass-scale uncritical trope-regurgitation by casual one-day-wonders trying to sound deep or like they know all about war.

My disquiet was summed up for me some years ago when Peter Harvey, the veteran journalist known as 'fourballs', led off his ANZAC Day coverage with the statement "Like no other nation, Australai's character has been shaped by war" and nobody pulled him up on it.

Now that is something where the AFL (not to mention Channel 7 commentators) lead on social issues ...

I agree that there is a tendency to trivialise ANZAC Day, along the lines of "They died so that we can be obsessed with our smartphones". For me, the whole point is to have an annual reminder of the horrors of war, and the human cost involved, so it should be more like  "Never let this [censored] happen again". Linking that to a footy match can be quite a good thing, if done in the right way. But it seems to be becoming just another themed round. FWIW I do like the evening game, with the torch and the Light Horse, but maybe that is just my Demon bias showing through.

[Fork 'em 6,983]

1 hour ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

 FWIW I do like the evening game, with the torch and the Light Horse, but maybe that is just my Demon bias showing through.

No it isn't.
Thats why Eddie hates it.
Its a far better spectacle.
Problem is there's a couple of basketcase clubs involved so anything could happen in future.